M50 Sherman

The Modern AFV discussion group is hosted by Erik Gustavsson and covers the variety of AFVs used by all nations in the post WWII era.

M50 Sherman

Joined: April 25th, 2005, 12:47 am

June 20th, 2012, 12:58 am #1


Was the M50 turreted Sherman built on the same lower hull as an M51?

The gun travel lock was different, anything else? All I need is a M50 turret on a Tamiya M51 kit hull?


Owen


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Joined: April 25th, 2005, 12:47 am

June 20th, 2012, 1:18 am #2

Okay I did a little research and found the first 50 were M4A4.
So the later ones were the same lower hull as the M51 Tamiya kit?
Same engine deck?


Owen
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Joined: September 24th, 2008, 11:36 am

June 20th, 2012, 6:19 am #3

In Robert Manasherobs excellent book on early M-50 Shermans you can see M-50:s based on M4A4, M4, M4 composite, M4A3 and M4A1 hulls! There is even some with small drivers and co-drivers hatches. So you can mix and match as you please!
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Joined: June 16th, 2005, 3:51 pm

June 20th, 2012, 9:52 am #4

Was the M50 turreted Sherman built on the same lower hull as an M51?

The gun travel lock was different, anything else? All I need is a M50 turret on a Tamiya M51 kit hull?


Owen

It has been made for either of the recent Tamiya Israeli Shermans.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/n ... model.html
Regards
Andrew
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Joined: April 25th, 2005, 12:47 am

June 20th, 2012, 1:43 pm #5

I wanted to get it but wasn't sure whether I could just drop it onto the Tamiya kit and call it a M50.

Owen
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Joined: January 12th, 2007, 8:42 pm

June 20th, 2012, 2:07 pm #6

...definitely get Dr. Manasherob's books as noted. The older Verlinden Warmachines title and Tom Gannon's now-OOP book Israeli Sherman are also valuable. The M50 was built on virtually every hull type, including the M4A1 (76W) cast hull. But the tanks went through several changes in configuration over the years in IDF service, and still more when they were passed on to the Phalange and South Lebanon Army. Still more extensive alterations were carried out on the Chilean M50 fleet. While a turret swap will create the basis for a correct M50, there is a lot more to it and that is dependent on the time frame you wish to model and the end user.
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Joined: April 23rd, 2002, 1:57 pm

June 20th, 2012, 2:09 pm #7

Okay I did a little research and found the first 50 were M4A4.
So the later ones were the same lower hull as the M51 Tamiya kit?
Same engine deck?


Owen
can of worms comes to mind, this is a fairly complex topic and to really get a good grip I would strongly recommend the books published by SabIngaMartin, written by Dr. Robert Manasherob. Titles are Lioness & Lion of the Line and there are at least 2 volumes at this time. These are excellent books.

http://www.sabingamartin.com/
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Joined: April 25th, 2005, 12:47 am

June 20th, 2012, 2:13 pm #8

...definitely get Dr. Manasherob's books as noted. The older Verlinden Warmachines title and Tom Gannon's now-OOP book Israeli Sherman are also valuable. The M50 was built on virtually every hull type, including the M4A1 (76W) cast hull. But the tanks went through several changes in configuration over the years in IDF service, and still more when they were passed on to the Phalange and South Lebanon Army. Still more extensive alterations were carried out on the Chilean M50 fleet. While a turret swap will create the basis for a correct M50, there is a lot more to it and that is dependent on the time frame you wish to model and the end user.
Now I think I'll start pulling out what little hair I have left.

Owen
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Joined: January 12th, 2007, 8:42 pm

June 20th, 2012, 3:27 pm #9

Yours is a typical first reaction, Owen. Yes, the history is complicated...but it is getting better documented all the time. Here's how I would start: Pick a time period first. Then, an operator. For much of the time IDF will be the only one, but from the latter seventies the Lebanese militias are in the mix and from 1983 Chile as well. A wet-stowage cast hull with HVSS and Cummins engine pretty much guarantees a post-1962 time frame and probably closer to 1967. There are variations in the number of stowage boxes on the sides, as well as how the engine deck and exhaust are configured over time. Several of us here (myself included) can help you out there, so get in touch offline if you wish.

I don't know how many wet-stowage M4A1 hulls were converted to M50s, but I suspect there were relatively few. That was the preferred hull for the M51 conversion program, so I have to think that the M51 line had priority for that hull type.
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Joined: January 10th, 2009, 3:29 am

June 20th, 2012, 8:35 pm #10

Greg,
Owen and I have been emailing since I saw his post! I know of at least one for sure and maybe two! There are two different photos of a M50 M4A1 cast hull that I have seen. One in Blue Steel and one in Roberts book. Like my "Monster" I grabbed the wrong hull and added too much stuff to just toss it so I will build it even though I know it is wrong. IDF Shermans, Magachs, and Whips are all the same! What did this have and when???
Last edited by Warfrost on June 20th, 2012, 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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