Justice For Dick

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Justice For Dick

Joined: January 10th, 2010, 12:10 pm

September 18th, 2011, 7:41 pm #1

Am I alone or do others agree that Dick Francis deserved far more than Bronze for his Fire Truck and ARV at Euro, what were the judges criteria, it beggars belief.
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Joined: January 8th, 2008, 4:17 pm

September 19th, 2011, 8:24 am #2

As a friend and fellow club member of Dick's I couldn't agree more. I think the effort he puts into his scratchbuilds are worthy of higher accolades, I for one could never attempt such an undertaking. However I understand from talking to a few people the judging was hard this year with few medals being given but as to the reasons I don't know.
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Joined: June 8th, 2010, 5:44 pm

September 19th, 2011, 9:35 pm #3

Am I alone or do others agree that Dick Francis deserved far more than Bronze for his Fire Truck and ARV at Euro, what were the judges criteria, it beggars belief.
If face does not fit then you do not get medals. I hear stories in years before from judges who I have big respect for of certain chief judges telling them which models to look for. Is not nice in my opinion. Certain modellers will never win.

Greets,
Sven
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Joined: March 8th, 2005, 3:16 am

September 20th, 2011, 1:47 am #4

Am I alone or do others agree that Dick Francis deserved far more than Bronze for his Fire Truck and ARV at Euro, what were the judges criteria, it beggars belief.
Judging is the same all over the world!!!!!!!!Dan
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Joined: November 2nd, 2006, 10:19 am

September 20th, 2011, 7:45 am #5

Euro has its own judging problems, which are exacerbated by other issues with the management of the show.

I raised this topic a few years ago having been privileged to inside information from different sources and received a number of emails of support from former and some present judges.

Im not going to trawl it all up again but there are a few individuals whom appear to have significant influence over the judging and toys for the boys mentality prevails in relation to judging.

My understanding from friends who attended the show this year is the old ways are back after a small respite last year.

Anyone who still believes the judging is impartial and fair at euro is either blind, deaf or has a vested interest to not complaining.


Dean
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Joined: June 18th, 2001, 8:13 am

September 20th, 2011, 1:39 pm #6

If face does not fit then you do not get medals. I hear stories in years before from judges who I have big respect for of certain chief judges telling them which models to look for. Is not nice in my opinion. Certain modellers will never win.

Greets,
Sven
"I hear stories in years before from judges who I have big respect for of certain chief judges telling them which models to look for"

I do think this is an instrumental part of any judging process where the verdicts are discussed between the judges. It becomes especially important if the competition tries to maintain a similar standard across classes. The chief judges responsibility is to keep an eye on this aspect and it often requires giving some hints to the class judges on how to do the job. In my mind "look for" is not equal to "give a medal".

But if you mean that the chief judge tells the judges which models should receive a medal in a class then this means either a) that the chief judge is not upp to the task or b)that the other judges are not up to the task. Basically the chief judge should interviene to judging of an individual model only if there is a clear breech of competition rules or a misinterpretation of rules by class judges. Class judges that let a chief judge dictate their ruling can only blame themselves for not standing up and arguing their case.

This year I was personally not very happy with judging of class 13 at Euro Militaire but I do not blame the system for it. Judges chose a strict line and there were many models that would have deserved some recognition that received none. But while there were many superb models on the table, there were very few real eye cathers this time and that may go a long way explaining the relatively low number of medals in the class. In some other classes, like vehicle vignettes, there were many unique entries and consequently also more metal on the table;-)


Regards,

Jari
Last edited by Jari Lievonen on September 20th, 2011, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 25th, 2005, 12:47 am

September 20th, 2011, 6:49 pm #7

Am I alone or do others agree that Dick Francis deserved far more than Bronze for his Fire Truck and ARV at Euro, what were the judges criteria, it beggars belief.
To a pic of his builds.

Thanks,
Owen
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Joined: April 6th, 2010, 8:25 pm

September 20th, 2011, 9:06 pm #8

Am I alone or do others agree that Dick Francis deserved far more than Bronze for his Fire Truck and ARV at Euro, what were the judges criteria, it beggars belief.
At the end of the day, no show or contest that I know of employs professionally qualified judges. That means dodgy decisions are always a risk - either due to poor judging quality or poor integrity.

Judges also tend to come (by default) from the ranks of the medal winners - the best modeller in the world does not always make the best judge.

Some shows and some organisations address this through structured training for the volunteers (AMPS is a prime example) and that helps, but most show organisers don't.

The one thing that really bugs me about Euro (unless it's changed in the past couple of years) is the placing of the modeller's name on the entry card by the model - the judges therefore know whether they are judging a 'name' or a friend or a nonentity.

Based on my own experiences of running a major contest for several years, I'd argue that judging should be done 'blind' as far as possible - so the judges don't know who entered the model and don't pre-judge the quality based on who made it rather than what's in front of them.

Regards,
John

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Joined: April 25th, 2005, 11:46 am

September 20th, 2011, 9:39 pm #9

and thats why I don't bother entering anymore.

If it's not WW2 and German and you are not Dutch or Spanish there is no hope....


MJH
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Joined: April 29th, 2004, 8:46 pm

September 20th, 2011, 10:24 pm #10

Am I alone or do others agree that Dick Francis deserved far more than Bronze for his Fire Truck and ARV at Euro, what were the judges criteria, it beggars belief.
Ten years ago, it was a similar discussion on this forum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/th ... st+judges-

Some things had changed, but others are still alive.


In class 14b the criteria was

Class 14b
CONVERTED/SCRATCH BUILT MILITARY VEHICLES
Criteria %
Construction: 80
Difficulty: 10
Presentation: 10

Consequently, a fully scratchbuild model will receive a bigger score than a conversion.

Only five models were entered on class 14b
Higly commended, german WWII
[/IMG]
Bronzes, both modern
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
Silver, german, pre-WWII
[/IMG]
Gold, Belgian, WWII
[/IMG]

I also entered a model in class 14a and I am REALLY PROUD of the "commended" it deserved.

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