I dont understand to Dragon...

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The Axis WWII discussion group is hosted by Tom Cockle and is dedicated to Axis armour of the Second World War.

I dont understand to Dragon...

Joined: September 22nd, 2004, 2:41 pm

May 21st, 2012, 2:45 am #1

What exist in the mind of the builders of Dragon???
Because, if this is the real Panzer 4 with 88


Why they take off this wrong version in 1/35


And now the same wrong model by in 1/72


I really dont understand where they seen this version if the original is totally different..

cheers.
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Joined: August 31st, 2003, 10:50 am

May 21st, 2012, 6:11 am #2

Sorry, Emanuel, for not answering your Pz IV - Dragon - Question, but I am intersted in the Befehlspanzer I in the foreground of the pic: It's rear end looks strange to me. Am I right? and what's the reason?
Thanx
Richard
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Joined: May 2nd, 2005, 1:36 pm

May 21st, 2012, 6:57 am #3

... or are you refering to something else?

Eric
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Joined: December 14th, 2003, 5:21 pm

May 21st, 2012, 8:11 am #4

What exist in the mind of the builders of Dragon???
Because, if this is the real Panzer 4 with 88


Why they take off this wrong version in 1/35


And now the same wrong model by in 1/72


I really dont understand where they seen this version if the original is totally different..

cheers.
if you search the web you will find pictures of panzer IV with 8,8 Flak with and without driving compartment. This one on your photo is offered be a italian resin company as conv. for the Tamiya pz IV

So the Dragon one is also correct
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Joined: May 23rd, 2008, 4:25 pm

May 21st, 2012, 9:44 am #5

I've seen 5 pics, 3 with U.S troops, NT
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Joined: November 25th, 2002, 11:02 am

May 21st, 2012, 10:09 am #6

if you search the web you will find pictures of panzer IV with 8,8 Flak with and without driving compartment. This one on your photo is offered be a italian resin company as conv. for the Tamiya pz IV

So the Dragon one is also correct
Two such vehicles have been identified. An ausf F without tracks and rubber return rollers and an ausf G with tracks and steel return rollers - this also has a barrel stay.. There is only one photo, AFAIK, of the latter with a GI clowning on the 8.8cm. There are two photos of the former ausf F, one with a single individual in the gunners seat and the other photo is of a GI and his girl standing on the superstructure. PanzerWrecks X also has a couple of panoramic photos which include this ausf F.

None of the pictures shows a Panzer IV with the drivers compartment. Where the confusion may have crept in is that in the photo showing the GI and his girl, there appears to be the hint of a drivers compartment behind the GI's left leg. This is actually another background vehicle in the dump - maybe a hetzer.

Which is why I haven't bought Dragons version _ I prefer to do my own.

That makes five pictures - if Dragon has access to another I'd love to see it.
Last edited by 23904505 on May 21st, 2012, 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 18th, 2004, 6:49 pm

May 21st, 2012, 1:22 pm #7

John,

The one with the 5 digit 'chassis' number is not an Ausf.G although the number would lead you to jump to that conclusion. If you study the photo carefully, you can see that the hull side plate extends past the front plate and is interlocked which is an obvious late Ausf.H feature. The final drive, at least on the right side has been replaced with an Ausf.F or G final drive, and there are many examples of Ausf.H with Ausf.G final drives. I'm certain it also has steel return rollers.

DML included the top over the driver's compartment because they do not have a detailed driver's compartment to add to the vehicle and couldn't leave it open as shown in the photos. The reasoning was that if a modeller wanted to produce one of the open ones then they could use an aftermarket detail set. What it did do was give you all the needed parts for the conversion in one box instead of having to buy two kits for it. Since there are no known photos of the top, then your guess as to how it was achieved will be as good as anyone else.

So if you still prefer to buy two kits, then go right ahead.

Regards,

Tom
Tom Cockle
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Joined: November 25th, 2002, 11:02 am

May 21st, 2012, 4:44 pm #8

You can buy the Dragon kit and simply substitute the drivers compartment with your own interpretation - simples. However, if, like me, you have a spare Flak36 and a spare PzIV and don't know what to do with them ....
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Joined: September 22nd, 2004, 2:41 pm

May 21st, 2012, 4:44 pm #9

John,

The one with the 5 digit 'chassis' number is not an Ausf.G although the number would lead you to jump to that conclusion. If you study the photo carefully, you can see that the hull side plate extends past the front plate and is interlocked which is an obvious late Ausf.H feature. The final drive, at least on the right side has been replaced with an Ausf.F or G final drive, and there are many examples of Ausf.H with Ausf.G final drives. I'm certain it also has steel return rollers.

DML included the top over the driver's compartment because they do not have a detailed driver's compartment to add to the vehicle and couldn't leave it open as shown in the photos. The reasoning was that if a modeller wanted to produce one of the open ones then they could use an aftermarket detail set. What it did do was give you all the needed parts for the conversion in one box instead of having to buy two kits for it. Since there are no known photos of the top, then your guess as to how it was achieved will be as good as anyone else.

So if you still prefer to buy two kits, then go right ahead.

Regards,

Tom
if Dragon have the correct 88 why use other?

If you look the photo on Panzerwrecks inmidiatly note this 88


But the dragon kit came with other version, Why?

Are you sure to Dragon dont use the Trojka reference?
Because this is early to the panzer 4 of Dragon and dont exist in reality.


cheers.

PD: I think the personel of Dragon took the Trojka reference without seen the original pictures, Because this they have the wrong kit with wrong parts. Is more ease to build is one buy 2 Dragon kits for a correct version, and a Trumpeter interior or of CMK. Is sad.. because much of documentation of Trojka or AJ-press books is ficticional.
Last edited by maultier on May 21st, 2012, 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 18th, 2004, 6:49 pm

May 21st, 2012, 5:30 pm #10

I went back and reviewed my emails with DML on this kit and the gun is the same as one in the photos in the Concord book. Why do you think it is the wrong gun? You're probably right about the Trojca influence though.

Tom

Tom Cockle
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