German tank colors

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The Axis WWII discussion group is hosted by Tom Cockle and is dedicated to Axis armour of the Second World War.

German tank colors

Joined: September 6th, 2007, 2:52 pm

September 16th, 2017, 11:06 pm #1

I have bought a paint set from Ak, or Mig, and it has two variants of the dunkelgelb color. Eh?

Panzertracts say there were only one color ever, in the article on this site.

I am confused!
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Joined: May 2nd, 2011, 11:39 pm

September 17th, 2017, 12:05 am #2

Hi! Carl,

Use both! What is the poor factory guy supposed to do when the old batch of paint runs out halfway through a job and the new batch of paint isn't mixed properly? Oh, wait... hold the war?

Be inventive. Be adventurous! Use both! Half + half. Left, right, top or bottom... you pick. What better way to imbue light & shade without moving the vehicle?
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 7:41 pm

September 17th, 2017, 12:15 am #3

I have bought a paint set from Ak, or Mig, and it has two variants of the dunkelgelb color. Eh?

Panzertracts say there were only one color ever, in the article on this site.

I am confused!
of producing paint in many batches in different factories. There also were at least three official variations: the original limited color "Dunkelgelb nach Muster" from early 1943, the "official" RAL 7028 "Dunkelgelb", which was the standard for this color for much of the war, and RAL 7028 "Dunkelgelb ausgabe 1944", a new standard to replace the previous RAL 7028. It was a darker and much greener olive green color, intended to correct the main defect of the standard RAL 7028: too bright and too light for the heavier foliage of Europe and the northern and western Russian campaigns. However, the standard German practice of using up older paints first probably kept the 1943-44 standard color in use for most of the rest of the war, as long as supplies held up. There are known examples of the "ausgabe 1944" version being used, but it would be almost impossible to tell from B&W photos which colors were in a particular camouflage scheme. To make matters considerably worse, there are plenty of smaller items (ammo boxes, jerricans, etc.) painted in the pre-Nazi era Reichswehr colors. Waste not, want not.....
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Joined: September 6th, 2007, 2:52 pm

September 17th, 2017, 12:33 am #4

"Dunkelgelb ausgabe 1944", was that the green base coat that was to be applied from nov. -44?
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Joined: July 18th, 2005, 2:10 pm

September 17th, 2017, 11:30 am #5

Carl,

The primary color to be used in factory camouflage from late 1944 on was olivegrun with dunkelgelb and brown applied as secondary colors. Calling the green a base color is a bit misleading because as I understand it to save paint the green was applied only to areas that would appear green and not the entire vehicle. Yellow and green were to be sprayed directly over the primer on their intended areas. Lower hulls and roadwheels would be sprayed with the primary green. This was the procedure that was intended but how it was done at the factories in practice is another thing.

When greenish is used to describe the late dunkelgelb it is more of tint to the color rather than a full-on green. Earlier dunkelgelb had what is often described as a brownish or tan tint. Paint colors often appear to change due to lighting conditions which helps to further confuse the topic.

Hope this helps a little.

Best regards,

John
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Joined: August 26th, 2005, 6:22 pm

September 18th, 2017, 1:30 pm #6

"Dunkelgelb ausgabe 1944", was that the green base coat that was to be applied from nov. -44?
Hi Carl;

No, the "Dunkelgelb 1944" was not the new "green" base which was to be applied after November 1944.
AFAIK this was a paler shade of the normal Dunkelgelb due to paint production problems during fall of 1944 and was used as camoflage color for example on King Tigers, Panzer IVs and StuGs from November 1944 onwards.
The darker/richer shade of Dunkelgelb in your set (1945 late war Colors?)would have been used from January to October '44,
but as others have mentioned in this thread the dates are fluid because the manufacturers first used up stockpiles of old paint before changeing to a new coulor.

Hope this helped a Little
Markus

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Joined: February 29th, 2012, 4:56 pm

September 19th, 2017, 1:53 pm #7

I have bought a paint set from Ak, or Mig, and it has two variants of the dunkelgelb color. Eh?

Panzertracts say there were only one color ever, in the article on this site.

I am confused!
Hello Carl,

first of all, if you are looking for the exact hue of dunkelgelb, non of these products is close to it. The article of panzertracts is very old and not complete at that point. Mr. Culver is right, that in the case of the production-process and other circumstances there were many little variations. On the other hand, as repeatet over and over again, without thinking, without any primary source (official and original color sample, correspondence...) known, there were not 3 official variants of dunkelgelb, but only two: RAL 7028 (02/43, yellow-tan-grey) and RAL 7028 Ausgabe 1944 (10/44, green-gray). They still exist. "Dunkelgelb nach Muster" was not a third hue, but a provisional designation for RAL 7028, before it was registered at RAL and their standard collection "RAL-Farbtonregister 840 R". The expression "...nach Muster" is and was a general designation for unregistered hues. The change of RAL 7028 to RAL 7028 Ausgabe 1944, intentionally ordered by OKH, had nothing do to with problems of the production process, but with its appearance itself. It is true, due to existing smaller equipment painted in that hue, that RAL 7028 Ausgabe 1944 was used indeed. So far, there is no known surviving part, which shows, that it was used on tanks, too, but maybe one day it will come to light.
Kind regards!

Jens M ü h l i g
Historycolors

www.historycolors.de
https://www.facebook.com/www.historycolors.de/
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Joined: February 15th, 2005, 1:15 pm

September 19th, 2017, 2:12 pm #8

as You are following this post, can You pleas update us about Historycolors book expected publication date?
Would it be bilingual German-English?
Many thanks
Mario Raspagliosi
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Joined: February 29th, 2012, 4:56 pm

September 19th, 2017, 6:42 pm #9

I made in march:https://www.historycolors.de/english/publication/

Bilingual would mean more than 2000+ pages - impossible, sorry. It has to be another solution. Thanks, Mario!
Kind regards!

Jens M ü h l i g
Historycolors

www.historycolors.de
https://www.facebook.com/www.historycolors.de/
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Joined: October 22nd, 2013, 2:57 am

September 19th, 2017, 9:31 pm #10

I know that this thing has been going on for ages, but untill now and from a modellers point of view I thought that the 3 basic colours changed somewhere in '44 to different shades.The mid 43 scheme was Dunkelgelb-which I thought-was a rich dark yellow,Olive Green which was rather dark (and I've read somewhere that there is a chance that the Germans used another dark green for a short period presumably flaschen grun,which came from the pre war stocks of that green)and Red Brown which had a quite reddish hue.Then came the '44-'45 scheme with a lighter pale DG,a much lighter green(Resedagrun?)and finally chocolate brown which was darker and not reddish anymore.Is any of that correct or we-including myself-keep recycling false interpretations just because we want lots of variety on our painted models?
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