GAZ-AA in DAK use ?

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GAZ-AA in DAK use ?

Joined: March 11th, 2011, 5:58 am

June 30th, 2012, 6:10 am #1

Gentleman,

Maybe something well known for the "old Hands" in this forum, but totally new for me:
While studing the book "PICTURES OF A DESERT WAR, The africain campaign from the sight of the war correspondent Erwin Seeger" from Roger Orlik,


I found to my big surprise this picture (sorry for the bad scan) on page 116



about the added text says: Cinema in Tobruk

It clearly shows a Russian GAZ-AA model (at least I am sure it must be one), so means that the DAK has not only used Russian guns in North Africa, but even Russian trucks there, something which was totally new for me and about I have never seen any photo evidence before.

The truck shows the white DAK air identification band on the engine hood.
Below the load bed at the left end are 3x 20 Lit. Jerry-cans fitted in an holder and their is a big storage box front left below the loadbed.
The soldier in front is clearly to be indentified as a DAK soldier, the background even indicates (stone) desert area. The soldier points to a road sign, on which is written (in German): German Soldiers cinema in the former hospital - daily (not Monday and Thuesday) 3 pm

Has anybody more informations about units etc., using such trucks in the Western Desert.

Last edited by trex10 on June 30th, 2012, 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 1st, 2003, 9:43 pm

June 30th, 2012, 8:16 am #2

Given that the Ford AA was so ubiquitous, and widely made under license, I would be cautious about saying that this is a GAZ AA (i.e. basically a Ford AA made in Russia) unless you can read the logo on the radiator! I'd love this to be a GAZ, but I'm hesitant, based on your scan. More likely a French or American import, or British (we started making the Ford AA in October 1931). They all looked superficially the same as the GAZ.

Chris

Chris Lloyd-Staples
MAFVA Information Officer
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Joined: April 29th, 2004, 8:46 pm

June 30th, 2012, 8:30 am #3

Also possible originally russian, sold to Spanish loyalists in 1937, then French in 1939 after the fall of Catalonia, sent to Africa in 1940 and confiscated and used by the German. Something like the armoured Chevrolets in Russia.
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Joined: May 2nd, 2005, 8:13 am

June 30th, 2012, 8:37 am #4

Gentleman,

Maybe something well known for the "old Hands" in this forum, but totally new for me:
While studing the book "PICTURES OF A DESERT WAR, The africain campaign from the sight of the war correspondent Erwin Seeger" from Roger Orlik,


I found to my big surprise this picture (sorry for the bad scan) on page 116



about the added text says: Cinema in Tobruk

It clearly shows a Russian GAZ-AA model (at least I am sure it must be one), so means that the DAK has not only used Russian guns in North Africa, but even Russian trucks there, something which was totally new for me and about I have never seen any photo evidence before.

The truck shows the white DAK air identification band on the engine hood.
Below the load bed at the left end are 3x 20 Lit. Jerry-cans fitted in an holder and their is a big storage box front left below the loadbed.
The soldier in front is clearly to be indentified as a DAK soldier, the background even indicates (stone) desert area. The soldier points to a road sign, on which is written (in German): German Soldiers cinema in the former hospital - daily (not Monday and Thuesday) 3 pm

Has anybody more informations about units etc., using such trucks in the Western Desert.
Erich, I cannot judge by your photo, but it is also possible that the truck was an Italian-made Fiat 621, a truck which had a close similarity with Ford and Gaz brothers. It can be reasonably said that the Fiat was a copy of the Ford.



The Fiat 621 was not a much successful vehicle in the Italian Army, the main version was the radiological ambulance (Fiat 621 PN three-axles chassis), but for certain there was quite a number in North Africa (also civilian types).



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Joined: March 11th, 2011, 5:58 am

June 30th, 2012, 8:50 am #5

Given that the Ford AA was so ubiquitous, and widely made under license, I would be cautious about saying that this is a GAZ AA (i.e. basically a Ford AA made in Russia) unless you can read the logo on the radiator! I'd love this to be a GAZ, but I'm hesitant, based on your scan. More likely a French or American import, or British (we started making the Ford AA in October 1931). They all looked superficially the same as the GAZ.

Chris

Chris Lloyd-Staples
MAFVA Information Officer
Thanks Chris,
for you feedback.
In fact I cannot read the GAZ sign from this photo.
What made me totally surprised about the photo was the fact, that the "Div. Nachschubführer" of the 15. PD mentioned in his private diary, before the battle of Ain Gazahla started, that he has received no truck supplies form germany for his transport units since April 1941, as the 15.Pd arrived in NA. Therefore he send some units to recover and canibalize every usefull british truck item from the Mechili area.
So according to this, I think the probability that ex-Russian GAZ trucks has ever been transported to North Africa would not be very high.

I have not known that the Ford AA trucks was produced in England, and even has been used in North Africa.
So you are right, probably no GAZ.
But nice idea for a DAK model.
Last edited by trex10 on June 30th, 2012, 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 11th, 2011, 5:58 am

June 30th, 2012, 8:54 am #6

Erich, I cannot judge by your photo, but it is also possible that the truck was an Italian-made Fiat 621, a truck which had a close similarity with Ford and Gaz brothers. It can be reasonably said that the Fiat was a copy of the Ford.



The Fiat 621 was not a much successful vehicle in the Italian Army, the main version was the radiological ambulance (Fiat 621 PN three-axles chassis), but for certain there was quite a number in North Africa (also civilian types).


Hi Lorenzo,

thanks for your info,

The picture shows clearly a Ford/GAZ AA (whatever)
The specific Ford 5-bolt pattern rims with their wide off-set and 5 holes in the rim disc are clearly to identify. Even the rear axle has twin-tires.
So totally different to the FIAT 621 from you photo
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Joined: March 11th, 2011, 5:58 am

June 30th, 2012, 9:00 am #7

Also possible originally russian, sold to Spanish loyalists in 1937, then French in 1939 after the fall of Catalonia, sent to Africa in 1940 and confiscated and used by the German. Something like the armoured Chevrolets in Russia.
Thanks Guillem,

for this interesting info.
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Joined: March 11th, 2011, 5:58 am

June 30th, 2012, 11:01 am #8

Gentleman,

Maybe something well known for the "old Hands" in this forum, but totally new for me:
While studing the book "PICTURES OF A DESERT WAR, The africain campaign from the sight of the war correspondent Erwin Seeger" from Roger Orlik,


I found to my big surprise this picture (sorry for the bad scan) on page 116



about the added text says: Cinema in Tobruk

It clearly shows a Russian GAZ-AA model (at least I am sure it must be one), so means that the DAK has not only used Russian guns in North Africa, but even Russian trucks there, something which was totally new for me and about I have never seen any photo evidence before.

The truck shows the white DAK air identification band on the engine hood.
Below the load bed at the left end are 3x 20 Lit. Jerry-cans fitted in an holder and their is a big storage box front left below the loadbed.
The soldier in front is clearly to be indentified as a DAK soldier, the background even indicates (stone) desert area. The soldier points to a road sign, on which is written (in German): German Soldiers cinema in the former hospital - daily (not Monday and Thuesday) 3 pm

Has anybody more informations about units etc., using such trucks in the Western Desert.
and sorry that I have confrontated the community with with my superficial research.

My pictures shows not an Ford AA or GAZ. The key point is the (big) rear axle hub, something I should have seen earlier, at least before I started the thread.
It seems that the photo shows a Ford-BB, produced in Germany till 1939 and delivered even to the Wehrmacht.


Source: www.fomcc.de

The conformities are: rear axle hub, shape of the front fender below the drivers door and even the load bed side wall (3 metall reinforcements) is the same.

The shape of the front fenders let me basically thought ist a Ford-AA.
Last edited by trex10 on June 30th, 2012, 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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