Ex-LSSAH vehicles with the HJ Division

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The Axis WWII discussion group is hosted by Tom Cockle and is dedicated to Axis armour of the Second World War.

Ex-LSSAH vehicles with the HJ Division

Joined: April 16th, 2003, 11:56 am

April 3rd, 2012, 1:15 am #1

Hi guys,

Further to my thread about the SdKfz 251-8 that turned up in a photo on ebay recently, I wanted to see if anyone knew of any other vehicles that were transferred from the LAH to HJ, and appear in HJ photos.

Please click on the photos for larger versions.

Firstly here is the SdKfz 251-8 we had in the other thread.



Secondly, this Mercedes-Benz L1500 Kfz 70 seen in "SS Armour" by Stern, Squadron book. This number plate means that the vehicle also came from the LAH Panzer Regiment, and indeed the Panzer Rhomboid is visible on the upper left of the rear panel. It does have the confusing letter 'P' within the Rhomboid, but possibly this may actually be an 'R' for Regiment?



The only other vehicle I could find was this truck KO'd in Normandy. The style of truck appears to be Italian to me. As the Panzerjaeger-Abteilung went with the LAH to Italy, and its remnants were later transferred to the HJ in early 1944, it is possible that this vehicle comes from 12th SS Panzerjaeger-Abteilung. Does the ammunition look like 75mm L/70 ammo for a Jagdpanzer IV?



Hopefully someone may know of other images out there of HJ vehicles with the SS-16XXXX number plate range.

Cheers
Steve




Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
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Joined: August 12th, 2006, 5:43 pm

April 3rd, 2012, 7:34 am #2

Hi Steve,

In my list I have two trucks with the 12th SS insignia and a Pz rhomboid tactical sign on them, but numbered SS-168 398 and SS-168 081, will try and find their photo tonight.

cheers leonard paul
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Joined: April 16th, 2003, 11:56 am

April 3rd, 2012, 8:49 am #3

Hi Leonard,

Great stuff! Thanks for that, it would be great to see the images if you can find them.

I have a database of around 850 LAH vehicles, and these are new to me.

The closest one I have is an Opel Blitz, SS-168018 from the Panzer Regiment taken at Kursk by Bueschel. It would be great to see which type of vehicles these are.

Cheers
Steve


Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
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Joined: April 20th, 2010, 8:52 pm

April 3rd, 2012, 3:39 pm #4

Hi guys,

Further to my thread about the SdKfz 251-8 that turned up in a photo on ebay recently, I wanted to see if anyone knew of any other vehicles that were transferred from the LAH to HJ, and appear in HJ photos.

Please click on the photos for larger versions.

Firstly here is the SdKfz 251-8 we had in the other thread.



Secondly, this Mercedes-Benz L1500 Kfz 70 seen in "SS Armour" by Stern, Squadron book. This number plate means that the vehicle also came from the LAH Panzer Regiment, and indeed the Panzer Rhomboid is visible on the upper left of the rear panel. It does have the confusing letter 'P' within the Rhomboid, but possibly this may actually be an 'R' for Regiment?



The only other vehicle I could find was this truck KO'd in Normandy. The style of truck appears to be Italian to me. As the Panzerjaeger-Abteilung went with the LAH to Italy, and its remnants were later transferred to the HJ in early 1944, it is possible that this vehicle comes from 12th SS Panzerjaeger-Abteilung. Does the ammunition look like 75mm L/70 ammo for a Jagdpanzer IV?



Hopefully someone may know of other images out there of HJ vehicles with the SS-16XXXX number plate range.

Cheers
Steve




Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
The middle photo looks like a Styer 1500 to me... -MB
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Joined: April 16th, 2003, 11:56 am

April 3rd, 2012, 11:23 pm #5

Hi Mark,

If you look at the towing bar frame, on the Mercedes it is long and rectangular, but in a Steyr it is angled, tapering upwards as it goes outwards.

The other factor is that when this vehicle was transferred, the LAH had the earlier Steyr 1500s which did not have a protruding mudguard over the rear wheels, which this vehicle has.

Cheers
Steve


Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
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Joined: August 12th, 2006, 5:43 pm

April 4th, 2012, 7:00 am #6

Hi Leonard,

Great stuff! Thanks for that, it would be great to see the images if you can find them.

I have a database of around 850 LAH vehicles, and these are new to me.

The closest one I have is an Opel Blitz, SS-168018 from the Panzer Regiment taken at Kursk by Bueschel. It would be great to see which type of vehicles these are.

Cheers
Steve


Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
Hi Steve,

Have looked everywhere for photos, but no luck, they were added to my list about 15 years ago, so I must have seen them in a book or a film that I was unable to copy. Cannot remember the truck makes either, but what is for definite are the markings and number plates that I mentioned above. I also have then noted as being in Normandy

cheers leonard paul
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Joined: August 12th, 2006, 5:43 pm

April 4th, 2012, 7:16 am #7

Hi Mark,

If you look at the towing bar frame, on the Mercedes it is long and rectangular, but in a Steyr it is angled, tapering upwards as it goes outwards.

The other factor is that when this vehicle was transferred, the LAH had the earlier Steyr 1500s which did not have a protruding mudguard over the rear wheels, which this vehicle has.

Cheers
Steve


Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
Hi,

Yes definitely a Mercedes, which all had the protruding rear mudguard, but only about 35% of Steyr 1500/2000's had the protruding mudguard, and that was the first 35% of their total production, the deletion of the protruding rear mudguard occuring approx April/May 1943.

cheers leonard paul
Last edited by spannermann on April 4th, 2012, 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 16th, 2003, 11:56 am

April 4th, 2012, 8:09 am #8

Hi Steve,

Have looked everywhere for photos, but no luck, they were added to my list about 15 years ago, so I must have seen them in a book or a film that I was unable to copy. Cannot remember the truck makes either, but what is for definite are the markings and number plates that I mentioned above. I also have then noted as being in Normandy

cheers leonard paul
Hi Leonard,

Thanks a lot for looking, shame you couldn't find them, maybe someone else may have them hidden away somewhere.

Cheers
Steve


Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
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Joined: May 2nd, 2005, 8:13 am

April 4th, 2012, 5:11 pm #9

Hi guys,

Further to my thread about the SdKfz 251-8 that turned up in a photo on ebay recently, I wanted to see if anyone knew of any other vehicles that were transferred from the LAH to HJ, and appear in HJ photos.

Please click on the photos for larger versions.

Firstly here is the SdKfz 251-8 we had in the other thread.



Secondly, this Mercedes-Benz L1500 Kfz 70 seen in "SS Armour" by Stern, Squadron book. This number plate means that the vehicle also came from the LAH Panzer Regiment, and indeed the Panzer Rhomboid is visible on the upper left of the rear panel. It does have the confusing letter 'P' within the Rhomboid, but possibly this may actually be an 'R' for Regiment?



The only other vehicle I could find was this truck KO'd in Normandy. The style of truck appears to be Italian to me. As the Panzerjaeger-Abteilung went with the LAH to Italy, and its remnants were later transferred to the HJ in early 1944, it is possible that this vehicle comes from 12th SS Panzerjaeger-Abteilung. Does the ammunition look like 75mm L/70 ammo for a Jagdpanzer IV?



Hopefully someone may know of other images out there of HJ vehicles with the SS-16XXXX number plate range.

Cheers
Steve




Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
The closest Italian truck I can think of is the Fiat 666 NM (I would exclude Lancia, Isotta-Fraschini, Alfa-Romeo types that don't fit with your image):





[source: "Gli autoveicoli tattici e logistici del R. Esercito Italiano fino al 1943" by Nicola Pignato].

But some details under the cargo bed don't fit either (field modification?), therefore I am not 100% convinced.

For certain it is a truck and not a trailer.
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Joined: April 16th, 2003, 11:56 am

April 4th, 2012, 11:57 pm #10

Hi Lorenzo,

Yes, this truck is very tricky, maybe the frame above the tow bar is just a simplified version done later on? I'm hoping to finally sort this one out one day, but the 666 NM looks like the best option at the moment.

Thanks again
Steve


Interested in and researching the vehicles and weapons of the Leibstandarte
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