Emergency battery, England 1940

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Hosted by John Prigent and Steve Zaloga, this is a discussion group dedicated to the armoured forces of the many Allied nations of the Second World War.

Emergency battery, England 1940

Joined: August 5th, 2005, 9:47 am

April 28th, 2012, 8:22 pm #1

Ok, its not an AFV but has firepower and armour!
Im sticking my neck out here since the information Ive found is not much.
These guns were mounted on the US "Fourstackers" that GB received several of.
GB rearmed many of these destroyers with antisubmarine weapons etc so many guns were redundant.
I think, but Im in no way certain that some were used as Emergency batteries along the british coastline but this is what Im building.
My question is this:
What do you think the colour would have been?
Naval grey (original colour) or repainted with fex brown, green or tarmac cammo as used by the british Army?

Here is a link to the kit Im building:

http://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/shop/nava ... 35043.html



Anyone have any ideas?
Any info or opinions are wellcome!

Desert-Erik
Sweden

CU@C4

www.c4-open.nu

Last edited by Erik_Ahlstroem on April 28th, 2012, 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 12th, 2007, 8:42 pm

April 29th, 2012, 12:29 am #2

Erik, I would assume that the guns were repainted in the predominant British army colors of the time; like SCC2 brown. Probably not camo; at the distances common with naval gunfire it wouldn't make any difference. Larger batteries or emplacements could be camouflaged, though. One Canadian bunker on Vancouver Island hid a 6" gun inside, behind steel doors, and the whole structure was painted to resemble an innocent boathouse, with fake clpboard siding and fake windows in the doors.
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Joined: April 18th, 2005, 11:30 am

April 29th, 2012, 10:16 am #3

Ok, its not an AFV but has firepower and armour!
Im sticking my neck out here since the information Ive found is not much.
These guns were mounted on the US "Fourstackers" that GB received several of.
GB rearmed many of these destroyers with antisubmarine weapons etc so many guns were redundant.
I think, but Im in no way certain that some were used as Emergency batteries along the british coastline but this is what Im building.
My question is this:
What do you think the colour would have been?
Naval grey (original colour) or repainted with fex brown, green or tarmac cammo as used by the british Army?

Here is a link to the kit Im building:

http://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/shop/nava ... 35043.html



Anyone have any ideas?
Any info or opinions are wellcome!

Desert-Erik
Sweden

CU@C4

www.c4-open.nu
Fortificationa are not something I know much about, but I think a fair comment is that the effectiveness of camouflage on an item (whether that is an aircraft, vehicle or bunker) is not always the main motivation for doing it!

Lots of coastal installations on both sides of the Channel/North Sea were camouflage painted to no real effect at any range, but it became habit to do it and probably made the users feel better. And in times of crisis, when any form of armament is being pressed into service (including WW1-era Mk V tanks!), the only way of jazzing up ones fifty year old truck/bus/cannon to make it look more modern is to give it a coat of whatever paints are handy...
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Joined: May 23rd, 2008, 4:25 pm

April 29th, 2012, 11:51 am #4

Ok, its not an AFV but has firepower and armour!
Im sticking my neck out here since the information Ive found is not much.
These guns were mounted on the US "Fourstackers" that GB received several of.
GB rearmed many of these destroyers with antisubmarine weapons etc so many guns were redundant.
I think, but Im in no way certain that some were used as Emergency batteries along the british coastline but this is what Im building.
My question is this:
What do you think the colour would have been?
Naval grey (original colour) or repainted with fex brown, green or tarmac cammo as used by the british Army?

Here is a link to the kit Im building:

http://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/shop/nava ... 35043.html



Anyone have any ideas?
Any info or opinions are wellcome!

Desert-Erik
Sweden

CU@C4

www.c4-open.nu
My guess is that it would depend on who manned these weapons. If RN or R.Marines, probably left in grey. The army would have soon painted them green or brown, etc.
Later, I should imagine that the grey would have been superseded by green/brown, etc. An extemporised 4.5" in Duxford is/was in naval grey, when I saw it some 20 years ago. Proves nothing, could have been a museum paint-job.

Spike........F/GB
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Joined: March 9th, 2012, 4:57 pm

April 29th, 2012, 3:17 pm #5

Ok, its not an AFV but has firepower and armour!
Im sticking my neck out here since the information Ive found is not much.
These guns were mounted on the US "Fourstackers" that GB received several of.
GB rearmed many of these destroyers with antisubmarine weapons etc so many guns were redundant.
I think, but Im in no way certain that some were used as Emergency batteries along the british coastline but this is what Im building.
My question is this:
What do you think the colour would have been?
Naval grey (original colour) or repainted with fex brown, green or tarmac cammo as used by the british Army?

Here is a link to the kit Im building:

http://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/shop/nava ... 35043.html



Anyone have any ideas?
Any info or opinions are wellcome!

Desert-Erik
Sweden

CU@C4

www.c4-open.nu
Hi Erik,

not the gun you are looking for, but a similar example:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/330722354581?ru= ... 3D1&_rdc=1

Cheers,

Jens



Information not shared is information lost.

1/87er, die feinmotorisch flinke Elite des Modellbaus.

http://www.scalemodelteam.de
Information not shared is information lost.
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Joined: June 5th, 2005, 3:05 pm

April 29th, 2012, 9:18 pm #6

Erik, I would assume that the guns were repainted in the predominant British army colors of the time; like SCC2 brown. Probably not camo; at the distances common with naval gunfire it wouldn't make any difference. Larger batteries or emplacements could be camouflaged, though. One Canadian bunker on Vancouver Island hid a 6" gun inside, behind steel doors, and the whole structure was painted to resemble an innocent boathouse, with fake clpboard siding and fake windows in the doors.
Camouflage might have little effect at major caliber naval gun fire range, but for a fixed emplacement it would be of value against analysis of reconnaissance photos, as well as the eventuality of visual identification by enemy land forces at closer ranges.
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Joined: October 15th, 2010, 4:48 pm

April 30th, 2012, 1:58 am #7

Ok, its not an AFV but has firepower and armour!
Im sticking my neck out here since the information Ive found is not much.
These guns were mounted on the US "Fourstackers" that GB received several of.
GB rearmed many of these destroyers with antisubmarine weapons etc so many guns were redundant.
I think, but Im in no way certain that some were used as Emergency batteries along the british coastline but this is what Im building.
My question is this:
What do you think the colour would have been?
Naval grey (original colour) or repainted with fex brown, green or tarmac cammo as used by the british Army?

Here is a link to the kit Im building:

http://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/shop/nava ... 35043.html



Anyone have any ideas?
Any info or opinions are wellcome!

Desert-Erik
Sweden

CU@C4

www.c4-open.nu
Eric,

The RN probably wouldn't have released these guns at all for coastal defense since these guns were refitted prior to turn over to the RN and RCN, and once removed from the destroyers (starting in 1941 with the Town class Phase I mods), were re-installed in merchant ships. This was due to the shortage of naval guns available for use at sea (guns designed for land warfare aren't designed for the corrosive effects of sea water, whereas these 4"50 cal. guns were specifically designed to go to sea; i.e. the cocooning of tanks for overseas shipment). It's doubtful that these guns would have been used for coastal defense.

That being said, these may be useful references:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_4-50_mk9.htm
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/guncat/cat-0120.htm

Jon
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Joined: August 5th, 2005, 9:47 am

April 30th, 2012, 7:33 am #8

Thanks for the input everyone.

It may very well be that they werent used in this role, you are probably right.
I may go through with this project anyway, one or two guns may have been deployed... at least thats my plan behind this project.

Desert-Erik
Sweden

CU@C4
Last edited by Erik_Ahlstroem on April 30th, 2012, 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 25th, 2005, 10:10 am

April 30th, 2012, 3:59 pm #9

Fortificationa are not something I know much about, but I think a fair comment is that the effectiveness of camouflage on an item (whether that is an aircraft, vehicle or bunker) is not always the main motivation for doing it!

Lots of coastal installations on both sides of the Channel/North Sea were camouflage painted to no real effect at any range, but it became habit to do it and probably made the users feel better. And in times of crisis, when any form of armament is being pressed into service (including WW1-era Mk V tanks!), the only way of jazzing up ones fifty year old truck/bus/cannon to make it look more modern is to give it a coat of whatever paints are handy...
To keep the men busy. Which is not as cynical as it sounds, given the boredom of life in most coastal defences.
Graham Boak
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