Demag Panther Ausf A Fgst.Nr. 158134...

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The Axis WWII discussion group is hosted by Tom Cockle and is dedicated to Axis armour of the Second World War.

Demag Panther Ausf A Fgst.Nr. 158134...

Joined: January 27th, 2004, 3:29 pm

March 13th, 2013, 2:03 pm #1

...or "The Wheatcroft Panther".

What was its origin?
Only 50 Demag early Ausf A was ever made so every one has a 2% chance to be the one.
We can exclude all burnt out ones and all of them from the East front.

There was one captured by the Free French at Casino, in pristine condition but a number of features didnt match.

2 years ago some photos of a Demag A emerged, she was destroyed at Val-du-Breuil on 16/17 August 1944, and the photo was taken 9th March 1945.
A strong candidate and her origin were discussed here on ML:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/th ... ce+Panther

But how ever she was the one no one has stated.

One thing in aid to pin point is the zimmerit pattern, it is almost like fingerprints.
This time photos of Wheatcroft Demag before restoration was all without zimmerit.
Small arms fire is another trick, penetrate the zimm and make marks on the hull.

The 1945 photo show 3 distinctive small arms fire on the front plate:



Those marks are also seen on the stripped hull ongoing restoration in the excellent book from The research squad, page 81:



What is the odds for 2 (out of 50) Demag hulls having the exact same scares?
I dare saying this Panther is the Weathcroft Demag Ausf A.

Kind regards
Kent
Last edited by kwk088 on March 13th, 2013, 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 19th, 2005, 8:49 pm

March 13th, 2013, 5:28 pm #2

Well spotted Sir !

Any thoughts on the Ink and Quill marking on the turret ?

Alasdair (AJ) Johnston
info@theresearchsquad.com
Last edited by Alasdair Johnston on March 13th, 2013, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 20th, 2005, 6:43 pm

March 13th, 2013, 6:02 pm #3

n/t
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Joined: July 18th, 2005, 2:10 pm

March 13th, 2013, 9:11 pm #4

...or "The Wheatcroft Panther".

What was its origin?
Only 50 Demag early Ausf A was ever made so every one has a 2% chance to be the one.
We can exclude all burnt out ones and all of them from the East front.

There was one captured by the Free French at Casino, in pristine condition but a number of features didnt match.

2 years ago some photos of a Demag A emerged, she was destroyed at Val-du-Breuil on 16/17 August 1944, and the photo was taken 9th March 1945.
A strong candidate and her origin were discussed here on ML:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/th ... ce+Panther

But how ever she was the one no one has stated.

One thing in aid to pin point is the zimmerit pattern, it is almost like fingerprints.
This time photos of Wheatcroft Demag before restoration was all without zimmerit.
Small arms fire is another trick, penetrate the zimm and make marks on the hull.

The 1945 photo show 3 distinctive small arms fire on the front plate:



Those marks are also seen on the stripped hull ongoing restoration in the excellent book from The research squad, page 81:



What is the odds for 2 (out of 50) Demag hulls having the exact same scares?
I dare saying this Panther is the Weathcroft Demag Ausf A.

Kind regards
Kent
I think you're on to something. Any known provenance for the Wheatcroft vehicle?
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Joined: January 27th, 2004, 3:29 pm

March 13th, 2013, 10:10 pm #5

n/t
...try this links instead:





Kind regards
Kent
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Joined: January 27th, 2004, 3:29 pm

March 13th, 2013, 10:18 pm #6

Well spotted Sir !

Any thoughts on the Ink and Quill marking on the turret ?

Alasdair (AJ) Johnston
info@theresearchsquad.com
Sorry but I have no idea regarding that marking.
Have never seen it before.

2PD was a unit that had a lot of strange markings, often on the turret, so I want be surprised if it is one of their.
Or it can be a "Local French Picasso" made post war, time will tell (I hope)

Kind regards
Kent
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Joined: August 19th, 2005, 8:49 pm

March 14th, 2013, 8:41 am #7

Yes, the markings are a conundrum, there is still a lot of background work to do.

There is a lot to do to get into the position of persuading Kevin to finish the Panther "as it was" the hour before it was KO'ed.

We are still collecting and studying the following information.

German unit reports from the area/time.
US unit reports from the area/time.
German personnel/deaths/wounded lists from the units in the area.
Post battle photos from the area.
Post battle POW reports/lists.

Speak soon

Alasdair (AJ) Johnston
info@theresearchsquad.com
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Joined: February 16th, 2008, 3:20 pm

March 14th, 2013, 2:27 pm #8

...or "The Wheatcroft Panther".

What was its origin?
Only 50 Demag early Ausf A was ever made so every one has a 2% chance to be the one.
We can exclude all burnt out ones and all of them from the East front.

There was one captured by the Free French at Casino, in pristine condition but a number of features didnt match.

2 years ago some photos of a Demag A emerged, she was destroyed at Val-du-Breuil on 16/17 August 1944, and the photo was taken 9th March 1945.
A strong candidate and her origin were discussed here on ML:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/th ... ce+Panther

But how ever she was the one no one has stated.

One thing in aid to pin point is the zimmerit pattern, it is almost like fingerprints.
This time photos of Wheatcroft Demag before restoration was all without zimmerit.
Small arms fire is another trick, penetrate the zimm and make marks on the hull.

The 1945 photo show 3 distinctive small arms fire on the front plate:



Those marks are also seen on the stripped hull ongoing restoration in the excellent book from The research squad, page 81:



What is the odds for 2 (out of 50) Demag hulls having the exact same scares?
I dare saying this Panther is the Weathcroft Demag Ausf A.

Kind regards
Kent
get this tank with a completely ruptured turret? Wonder how that happened? Firing range queen maybe?
J
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Joined: October 19th, 2011, 5:16 pm

March 14th, 2013, 9:18 pm #9

Well spotted Sir !

Any thoughts on the Ink and Quill marking on the turret ?

Alasdair (AJ) Johnston
info@theresearchsquad.com
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/th ... ce+Panther

Might help identify the unit.
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