debery from a shot down plane

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debery from a shot down plane

Joined: August 21st, 2001, 4:56 pm

August 26th, 2001, 12:00 am #1

i need help on my shot down plane i have the cotton woll smoke effect thanks to some very nice people.I was thinking of putting a broken wing behind the plane like its snaped of and some other ikle things. any ideas thanks
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Joined: August 22nd, 2001, 8:21 pm

August 26th, 2001, 1:24 am #2

hello,

Wasnt I the one who told you about the cotton wool things? Personally I wouldnt do Shrapnel and Debris from planes, firstly because I dont want a few hundred shards of aerofoil hanging from me ceiling. But if you look at gun camera footage, I got mine from a flying game, you notice at first when the bullets hit they only slice along the plane the plane hitting deep inside like oil pipes and stuff..... if you got a good painting program on you PC you can easily paint small shards of debris coming away from the plane.

And another thing, say if its a German plane during the battle of britain taking hits from a .303 browning yellow puffs indicate the hits. With german cannons like the Oerlikon 20mm it would slightly lift up the area hit, as I saw on some pics.

One more thing is with the wing if you want it hanging off you could put it as its about to fall away, like it hanging there just by a few wing spars, and cables hanging out of it. This sounds pretty good what your doing got any pics?
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Mike Haag
Mike Haag

August 27th, 2001, 9:26 am #3

Hi Martyn,

as far as I know, the Luftwaffe didn´t use Oerlikon cannons. Every heavy airplane "artillery", such as 20 or 30 mm guns were manufactured by "Rheinmetall-Borsig".
But this topic is propably more related to aircraft modelling sites...
Just my two cents.

Mike
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Joined: August 22nd, 2001, 8:21 pm

August 27th, 2001, 9:31 am #4

Hi,

at first did the RAF use Oerlikon cannons?? And then did they use Hispano cannons because of feed problems? I am getting mixed up.
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Mike Haag
Mike Haag

August 27th, 2001, 5:58 pm #5

...
i´m not completely sure, but I would say that most of the 20mm cannons, RAF fighter aircraft used, were Hispano models, built under license by Oerlikon.
(as the RAF used the license version of the American 7.7 mm Browning MG)
But I´m not the final expert on aircrafts.
I would recommend you to look up the topic on some aircraft-related websites.

cheers

Mike
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Jan Erik Johansen
Jan Erik Johansen

August 27th, 2001, 8:38 pm #6

Hi,

at first did the RAF use Oerlikon cannons?? And then did they use Hispano cannons because of feed problems? I am getting mixed up.
In short, and not to be read as absolut rules, German airplanes used machineguns up to 13 m.m. and cannons 20 or 30 m.m. For example Me 262, four 30 m.m. Rheinmetal-Borsig Mk 108A-3, who also was to been used in the flakpanzer Kugelblitz.

The Germans also tried a 50 m.m. cannon in the Me 410, of the 26 aircrafts intercept aformation of unescorted B-17s, nine were destroyed and of those who return, eight suffered gun failures after the first, few shots.

American airplanes used machineguns only (OK, cannons sometimes), 7,62 and 12, 7 m.m., for example P-51 D, six 12,7 m.m. Browning machineguns.

English, both, and yes Hispano 20 m.m cannons or Browning 0,303in machine guns, often the letter, for ex. Spitfire MK I a, or b, or c, indicate the armament fits, meaning a=only machine guns, b=mix, c=only cannons.

Never heard of any feed problems.

Japan, both, 20 m.m. Ho-5 cannons and 12,7 m.m. Ho-102 machineguns.

The red tape used at the wings of Spits an Hurricanes over the machineguns, gave the ground crew an easy task finding jammed guns.

Cheers, and back to the panzers, Jan Erik Johansen
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Ed Gilbert
Ed Gilbert

August 27th, 2001, 11:16 pm #7

Hi,

at first did the RAF use Oerlikon cannons?? And then did they use Hispano cannons because of feed problems? I am getting mixed up.
A number of U S aircraft were cannon-armed, beginning with the P-39/P600 series, the "Aircobras". This aircraft used the same tube as the US M1 37mm AT gun. It was not entirely efective in air combat, mainly because of the maneuverability limitations of the airframe with respect to the Japanese Zero (its main opponent), but was was highly effective in the ground attack role. Both the US and the USSR used them extensively and very effectively in this role.

The big prize goes to the B-25 (the J model, I believe). It was armed with the same 75mm gun high/low recoil gun as the M24 Chaffee light tank. This was used primarily in the anti-shipping role, where it could and did inflict hideous damage.

The US used the M2 Browning in preference to cannon because it was such a powerful gun. Six to eight of them put an enormous number of rounds onto the target. The gun was originally designed as a light anti-tank gun for the infantry, and ecah round could easily punch through things like seat armor, wing spars, engine blocks and other significant parts of an airplane. There was simply little perceived need for a cannon in aircraft.
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Ed Gilbert
Ed Gilbert

August 27th, 2001, 11:24 pm #8

i need help on my shot down plane i have the cotton woll smoke effect thanks to some very nice people.I was thinking of putting a broken wing behind the plane like its snaped of and some other ikle things. any ideas thanks
You might want to try something simple. When the main spar of an aicraft wing snaps, it is fatal. Typically the wing folds back, twisting down and back because of drag, and then tears off. The instantaneous loss of lift on one side means that the undamaged wing kicks up, throwing the aircraft up onto one side. Typically the aircraft will then tumble and disintegrate.

You might want to rent some videos or films. Many Hollywood films incorporated gun camera footage, particularly from air combat in the Pacific, illustrating this phenomenon.
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Ian Sadler
Ian Sadler

August 28th, 2001, 6:32 pm #9

A number of U S aircraft were cannon-armed, beginning with the P-39/P600 series, the "Aircobras". This aircraft used the same tube as the US M1 37mm AT gun. It was not entirely efective in air combat, mainly because of the maneuverability limitations of the airframe with respect to the Japanese Zero (its main opponent), but was was highly effective in the ground attack role. Both the US and the USSR used them extensively and very effectively in this role.

The big prize goes to the B-25 (the J model, I believe). It was armed with the same 75mm gun high/low recoil gun as the M24 Chaffee light tank. This was used primarily in the anti-shipping role, where it could and did inflict hideous damage.

The US used the M2 Browning in preference to cannon because it was such a powerful gun. Six to eight of them put an enormous number of rounds onto the target. The gun was originally designed as a light anti-tank gun for the infantry, and ecah round could easily punch through things like seat armor, wing spars, engine blocks and other significant parts of an airplane. There was simply little perceived need for a cannon in aircraft.
Hi ed sorry to correct you but it was the british who put a 6 pdr into a mossy and it was the most powerful one every fielded in ww2 , one is on display at Cosford Air Museum in england cheers ian
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Rick Morris
Rick Morris

August 28th, 2001, 7:22 pm #10

a 6 pdr works out to be a 57mm gun how does that beat out a 75 mm gun
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