Colour of the WSS Panzer IV G on Kharkov

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Colour of the WSS Panzer IV G on Kharkov

Joined: November 8th, 2006, 11:46 pm

June 16th, 2012, 9:47 pm #1

Hello!
I would like to know what was the base colour of the Waffen SS Panzer IV G during the Kharkov Battle. RAL 7021 (Panzer Grey) or RAL 7028 (Dark Yellow)?
Please, coud anoyne help me?
TIA,
Fabrício
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Joined: March 21st, 2011, 9:27 pm

June 16th, 2012, 10:28 pm #2

"Last Victory in Russia: The SS Panzerkorps and Manstein's Kharkov Counteroffensive, Feb-March 1943" by George M. Nipe, Schiffer Military History Books, 2000. There are a great many photos in this book of SS Panzers, most are camoflauged in the winter white but many are in the dark grey, especially in the later part of the campaign when the snow began to melt. It appears that even though the order to change the basic color of the panzers to dark yellow was given in February 1943, there was no time for this to be implemented until after the campaign was over. The SS panzers were in constant combat from January until late March 1943. I don't think the tanks were repainted until after the Kharkov offensive. None of the photos in this book show dark yellow panzers, but I suppose it's possible that replacements recieved after Feb may have been dark yellow from the factory.
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Joined: November 8th, 2006, 11:46 pm

June 16th, 2012, 11:48 pm #3

Hello, Captain! Thank you very much for the explanation. You solved my doubt.
In more question.
Regarding the turret numbers of the LAH Panzers IV, what was the correct colour? Red w/ white outline or just outline withe?
All the best,
Fabrício
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Joined: October 18th, 2004, 6:49 pm

June 17th, 2012, 2:24 am #4

Hello!
I would like to know what was the base colour of the Waffen SS Panzer IV G during the Kharkov Battle. RAL 7021 (Panzer Grey) or RAL 7028 (Dark Yellow)?
Please, coud anoyne help me?
TIA,
Fabrício
Fabricio,

I think you should do a search here as this was discussed in some detail several months or a year ago. The standard practice at the time was for white outline numbers over dark gray and there are are several photos of LSSAH in France with their new early Ausf.G painted that way. By the time Kharkov rolled around, they were using newer Ausf.G some of which were painted in two-tone tropical paint, also it seems with white outline numbers with the base colour showing through. I believe the consensus was that the numbers were not red. Someone may remember in more detail but I suggest you try and find that discussion and read it first.

Regards,

Tom
Tom Cockle
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Joined: March 21st, 2011, 9:27 pm

June 17th, 2012, 3:17 am #5

reading (mentiones above) there is only one photo of a LAH tank with the turret numbers visible. It is of a Pz II Ausf F in a winter whitewash with what appears to be solid red numbers, but could be black. Unfortunately, all of the other pics of LAH panzers are too fuzzy or are at an angle that doesn't show the turret numbers. There is a very good photo of a 2. SS-PzG "Das Reich" Panzer III Ausf J in the dark grey with white outline number 811. Ths tank is pictured with Christen Tychsen sitting in the turret side door. He was the II./SS-Pz Rgt 2 commander at Kharkov. Whether LAH had the same white outline numbers, I don't know. I have read somewhere though that just before LAH was sent to Russia in Jan 1943 they were slated to be sent to North Africa and that some of the latest vehicles they recieved had already been painted in the dark yellow or sand brown color from the factory.
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Joined: January 20th, 2008, 7:26 pm

June 17th, 2012, 9:42 am #6

Hello!
I would like to know what was the base colour of the Waffen SS Panzer IV G during the Kharkov Battle. RAL 7021 (Panzer Grey) or RAL 7028 (Dark Yellow)?
Please, coud anoyne help me?
TIA,
Fabrício
As a number of experts have commented, it would depend on when the vehicles were issued. Older tanks would have been overall dark grey, but possibly overpainted with sand brown in summer 1942 (although LSSAH was in France refitting then and may not have adopted the practise). The latest issues could have been in the tropical scheme, but overall dark yellow is unlikely.

Interestingly, two colour photos of LSSAH vehicles from the Kursk period appeared last year. Both were earlier Pz III Command variants, which may well have survived the winter fighting. They appear to have been painted grey with gelb-braun overspray. To make things more interesting, schurzen were added to one. The quality of the photo does not quite allow definitive identification, but the schurzen were either grey overpainted dk yellow or dk yellow overpainted grey, green, brown or possibly a mixture.

I speculate here, but if the aim was to achieve some uniformity of colour scheme, my guess would be that if the tank was grey oversprayed gelb-braun, the schurzen would be dunkelgelb oversprayed grey (or possibly green).

Judge for yourselves:



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Joined: November 8th, 2006, 11:46 pm

June 20th, 2012, 4:04 pm #7

Hello!
I would like to know what was the base colour of the Waffen SS Panzer IV G during the Kharkov Battle. RAL 7021 (Panzer Grey) or RAL 7028 (Dark Yellow)?
Please, coud anoyne help me?
TIA,
Fabrício
Hello guys!
Thank you very much for the infos.
Take a look at the following image: seems to be a Panzer IV G in panzer grey.





What you think?
Last edited by menardi on June 20th, 2012, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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