Churchill in Tunisa and Italy

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Churchill in Tunisa and Italy

Joined: November 14th, 2006, 1:46 am

May 12th, 2017, 10:05 pm #1

I am going one day to build the Dragon Churchill IV NA 75 and paint it XF-13 as the instructions say. This looks like the dark green they were painted. I am also planning to repaint my old kits Esci Churchill III and Hasegawa Churchill I. From what I have read all 3 vehicles were used in Italy and the I and III were used in Tunisa. As for the Churchill I it seems each regiment had 6 for use in the CS role. In Tunisa they were used 2 pounder in the turret and 3 inch in the hull. Some may have had the guns switched 2 pdr in hull and 3 inch in the turret. There is a picture of a Churchill I in Italy with 3 inchers in both the turret and hull. Any comments?
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Joined: November 17th, 2015, 8:53 pm

May 13th, 2017, 2:44 am #2

The Churchill you mention with a 3" in the turret was the Churchill I CS (close support).

Never heard of the 2 pdr being mounted in the hull, though, not sure what the point would be either- by then the Is and IIs had been replaced by the IIIs and IVs. Could see the I CS lasting into Italy- as you say each regiment had 6 'Close Support' tanks, which would be their purpose, and there seems to have never been a CS version of the IIIs and IVs

As far as I knew, the US 75mm had HE (high explosive) rounds available, so not sure that IV (NA75) equipped regiments would have needed them.

Mind you, there was a HE round available for the 6pdr- and those regiments had CS troops so...

Indeed the british 75mm had an HE round, but there was still the Churchill V and VIII with a 95mm Howitzer, so go figure....
What happens when you press this bu...........
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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 10:44 pm

May 13th, 2017, 12:17 pm #3

I am going one day to build the Dragon Churchill IV NA 75 and paint it XF-13 as the instructions say. This looks like the dark green they were painted. I am also planning to repaint my old kits Esci Churchill III and Hasegawa Churchill I. From what I have read all 3 vehicles were used in Italy and the I and III were used in Tunisa. As for the Churchill I it seems each regiment had 6 for use in the CS role. In Tunisa they were used 2 pounder in the turret and 3 inch in the hull. Some may have had the guns switched 2 pdr in hull and 3 inch in the turret. There is a picture of a Churchill I in Italy with 3 inchers in both the turret and hull. Any comments?
Hello James;

When you build that DML Churchill be sure to add at least .060 spacer between the turret halves. DML made the turret too squat and I don't think they have fixed that problem. Tim Treadway
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Joined: August 15th, 2009, 7:40 am

May 13th, 2017, 4:17 pm #4

The Churchill you mention with a 3" in the turret was the Churchill I CS (close support).

Never heard of the 2 pdr being mounted in the hull, though, not sure what the point would be either- by then the Is and IIs had been replaced by the IIIs and IVs. Could see the I CS lasting into Italy- as you say each regiment had 6 'Close Support' tanks, which would be their purpose, and there seems to have never been a CS version of the IIIs and IVs

As far as I knew, the US 75mm had HE (high explosive) rounds available, so not sure that IV (NA75) equipped regiments would have needed them.

Mind you, there was a HE round available for the 6pdr- and those regiments had CS troops so...

Indeed the british 75mm had an HE round, but there was still the Churchill V and VIII with a 95mm Howitzer, so go figure....
Try putting North Irish Horse into your search bar for Churchill results. Apart from that Churchills in North Africa and Italy could be seen as you say with the 3" and two pounder reversed, 2 x 3" howitzers and if you look at photographs carefully you may well spot the early Chuchill Turret with the Panzer 3 cupola mounted too. Lots of fun with Churchill tanks.
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Joined: November 17th, 2015, 8:53 pm

May 13th, 2017, 8:48 pm #5

Did that- didn't see any II CS (the one with the 2pdr in the hull). Which is not surprising because my contact, (an retired Vauxhall Archivist) was adamant that there were only prototypes produced, no serial production. After the I CS (the one with two 3" Howitzers) the next CS variants were the V and VIII with 95mm howitzer.

Just to really muddy the waters, all the NA75 conversions were on MkIV turrets, but some of these were placed on MkIII hulls.

There were also approved modifications putting the MkVII Cupola on MkIII turrets, and earlier marks. (Which may account for the P3 cupola reports).

There were some 6pdr guns which were rebored to 75mm too- can't imagine how long they lasted.

This is without all the additional armour packs that may well have been added to earlier variants.

As DR says- lots of fun with Churchills.

The real shame is, Unlike the Sherman, though no RAF variants.
Last edited by Dave Haine on May 13th, 2017, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 15th, 2009, 7:40 am

May 13th, 2017, 9:40 pm #6

Hi Dave, i have seen photos of the Churchill Mk 1/2 with the Panzer 3 cupola, cannot recall where as it was many years back but the tank was in Italy and the unit was captioned as RIH. It was Gordon Brown who first pointed out the first photo, a side view, no mistaking it at all. Panzer 3 cupola.This was on a MK 1 turret not a 3.
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Joined: April 5th, 2004, 3:57 am

May 13th, 2017, 10:51 pm #7

I am going one day to build the Dragon Churchill IV NA 75 and paint it XF-13 as the instructions say. This looks like the dark green they were painted. I am also planning to repaint my old kits Esci Churchill III and Hasegawa Churchill I. From what I have read all 3 vehicles were used in Italy and the I and III were used in Tunisa. As for the Churchill I it seems each regiment had 6 for use in the CS role. In Tunisa they were used 2 pounder in the turret and 3 inch in the hull. Some may have had the guns switched 2 pdr in hull and 3 inch in the turret. There is a picture of a Churchill I in Italy with 3 inchers in both the turret and hull. Any comments?
Hi James, there is a 1/35 scale conversion kit review which would be of some help on Armorama. has a couple of WW II pics
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op= ... nt&id=9311

& this one with both 2 3' guns & the Pz III cuploa. (called Bushmills)

Cheers
Elliott
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Joined: November 14th, 2006, 1:46 am

May 14th, 2017, 1:48 am #8

I am going one day to build the Dragon Churchill IV NA 75 and paint it XF-13 as the instructions say. This looks like the dark green they were painted. I am also planning to repaint my old kits Esci Churchill III and Hasegawa Churchill I. From what I have read all 3 vehicles were used in Italy and the I and III were used in Tunisa. As for the Churchill I it seems each regiment had 6 for use in the CS role. In Tunisa they were used 2 pounder in the turret and 3 inch in the hull. Some may have had the guns switched 2 pdr in hull and 3 inch in the turret. There is a picture of a Churchill I in Italy with 3 inchers in both the turret and hull. Any comments?
I got the above info from the book "Mr Churchill's Tank" by David Fletcher
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Joined: November 17th, 2015, 8:53 pm

May 15th, 2017, 7:29 am #9

Hi Dave, i have seen photos of the Churchill Mk 1/2 with the Panzer 3 cupola, cannot recall where as it was many years back but the tank was in Italy and the unit was captioned as RIH. It was Gordon Brown who first pointed out the first photo, a side view, no mistaking it at all. Panzer 3 cupola.This was on a MK 1 turret not a 3.
Bit more searching and I've come across a photo- front view of a I CS with what most definately looks like a panzer 3 cupola- which makes me wonder, given that modification states for British vehicles were qiute tightly controlled, and it would have been a fair bit of work, if it was an official modification, And how many were actually done.

Can't see the name of the tank because it's covered with people....

What happens when you press this bu...........
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Joined: April 28th, 2005, 2:06 pm

May 15th, 2017, 10:09 am #10

I am going one day to build the Dragon Churchill IV NA 75 and paint it XF-13 as the instructions say. This looks like the dark green they were painted. I am also planning to repaint my old kits Esci Churchill III and Hasegawa Churchill I. From what I have read all 3 vehicles were used in Italy and the I and III were used in Tunisa. As for the Churchill I it seems each regiment had 6 for use in the CS role. In Tunisa they were used 2 pounder in the turret and 3 inch in the hull. Some may have had the guns switched 2 pdr in hull and 3 inch in the turret. There is a picture of a Churchill I in Italy with 3 inchers in both the turret and hull. Any comments?
The suggested Tamiya colour is far too dark and deep green for the British colour. XF-13 is meant to represent Deep Bronze Green, which was not used during the war. The correct period colour is SCC.15 Olive Drab. Mix Tamiya 5 x XF81 + 1 x XF58 + 1 x XF71.
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