Carro Armato P40 Base color in german service

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The Axis WWII discussion group is hosted by Tom Cockle and is dedicated to Axis armour of the Second World War.

Carro Armato P40 Base color in german service

Joined: March 20th, 2015, 6:08 am

September 16th, 2017, 4:33 am #1

Hi guys

I need help to found info about Base color of camouflage the Carro Armato P40 in german service

The base color is italian green and germans paint sand and brown colors on green italian base? Or Sand is base color?

Any information is its welcome!!

Thank you very much!!!!

Juan Pablo
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Joined: December 10th, 2012, 11:06 pm

September 16th, 2017, 4:29 pm #2

By the time these vehicles left the production line (summer 1943), base colour should have been sand yellow with rounded green and brown patches - all in Italian paints.

There is mention of a more elaborate scheme for vehicles produced in 1944-45 from the Ansaldo production line. These had patches of red-brown and grey-green separated by thin sprayed lines of sand yellow.

regards,
Jack

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Joined: March 20th, 2015, 6:08 am

September 17th, 2017, 4:14 pm #3

Excellent information Jack, thank you very much
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Joined: February 15th, 2005, 1:15 pm

September 18th, 2017, 2:52 pm #4

Hi guys

I need help to found info about Base color of camouflage the Carro Armato P40 in german service

The base color is italian green and germans paint sand and brown colors on green italian base? Or Sand is base color?

Any information is its welcome!!

Thank you very much!!!!

Juan Pablo
Hi Juan Pablo,
if You are searching for information regarding painting a P40 model, I strongly suggest You to read this topic:

http://www.modellismopiu.it/modules/new ... &forum=103

In the same forum there are some very informative topics about building it.

The base colour was the green, not the sand.

Nicola del Bono found one colour photo (and me later another one) that shows that probably (at least in our opinion!) some P40 tanks were painted in 4 colours, not 3.
It seems possible that the tank was painted in a medium green, then received patches of brown and dark green, then thin lines of sand bordering (more or less accurately) the patches.
Of course this may be a wrong analysis of the colour photos, and oll P40 were built in 3 colours, or (as the difference between the patches is not evident in B/N) maybe no P40 was ever built with 3 colours, but all in 4: judge Yourself!

About the exact colours of paints used for Italian vehicle after the italian surrender of the 8th of September, there is not known any written documentation, so I suggest You to refer to the few colour WWI photos of these vehicles and the Semovente M 42 da 75/18 numbered 114, built under German control in early 1944 and rediscovered and unearthed in 2000, and restored by the Museo dell'Aviazione at Rimini, where it is now exhibited since 2004 (if You want to built a 3 colours vehicle).
Up to now no researcher/historian ever stated if the colours used were Italian or German paints.
My personal opinion is that the exact hue is not significative for scale factor, weathering, batches of paint used during assembly, etc. etc.

Let me know if You need any additional information, including the other color photo I removed from the post I linked.

Cheers

Mario Raspagliosi
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Joined: December 10th, 2012, 11:06 pm

September 18th, 2017, 3:28 pm #5

... of four existing colours. To me it looks the base would be the standard grey-green, while the brown and deeper green could possibly be of German origin? Not unthinkable considering all but one P-40 was constructed after the armistice.

Now I wonder why Pignato omitted mention of this particular combination of colours in his second publication with Squadron three years later? It should have been included on the final page devoted to Italian armoured camouflage.

regards,
Jack
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Joined: February 15th, 2005, 1:15 pm

September 19th, 2017, 8:37 am #6

Hi Jack,
the Royal Italian Army before the surrender, was testing some camouflage schemes with 4 colours, both with "Khaki sahariano" or "Grigio-verde" base paint.
There are a lot of discussions about Italian paints, as documents are scarce, and this is even more true for vehicles built after the Italian surrender.

Prefacing that
the books available in English are only a few of the researches on Italian WWII vehicles published in Italian on bilingual-text and that Squadron books are quite short;
Prof. Pignato, the foremost researcher on this subject, sadly passed away quite some years ago;
I think that both books were published before thet specific photo was found.

If You are interested in the subject, I strongly suggest You some larger and newer book like:
MMP E. Finazzer, L. Carretta Light Trucks of the Italian Army in WWII in English;
Mattioli 1885 L.Massacci , D.Guglielmi, R. Riccio Italian armoured vehicles 1940 – 1943: A pictorial history, bilingual;
Mattioli 1885 D. Guglielmi Veicoli corazzati italiani impiegati dalle unità militari tedesche 1943-1945 bilingual.

And, but sadly in Italian language only and a brief English summary, the Gruppo Modellistico Trentino books on L3, L3 and M tanks and SPGs.

Cheers

Mario Raspagliosi

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Joined: December 10th, 2012, 11:06 pm

September 20th, 2017, 5:21 am #7

Hi Mario, thank you for those extra titles for books on Italian vehicles.

Back to the Squadron publications, Pignato did describe a four-colour scheme, but this was a caption for a photo of the M15-42 circa 1943 as found in the book of Italian Medium Tanks #39. As you say, not much was made of this as very little was known at the time of printing.

regards,
Jack
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