british world war one tank help needed.

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british world war one tank help needed.

Joined: May 11th, 2006, 2:14 pm

December 2nd, 2007, 11:19 am #1

hi guys,has anybody got any good advice on how i could make the emhar mark iv tank into the earlier mark one version? are there any conversions?,articles? or does anybody know whatys needed?,kind regards to you all.
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Joined: March 25th, 2007, 10:42 pm

December 2nd, 2007, 1:56 pm #2

Hi Richard, the matter becomes one of how far one is willing to go. The MkIV Emhar has some fundamental flaws in terms of dimensional accuracy but is the only 1/35th scale game in town. The Landships site has some good plans and conversion advice for the Airfix MkI and Emhar MkIV kits in 1/76th and 1/72nd scale that could be scaled up. There were many differences in details too, but since you would mostly need tracks and sponsons for the conversions I would suggest the MkV kit, which comes with both sets of sponsons, as a starter. The best course is to settle on some drawings, figure out how the Emhar kit best fits the conversion, and then scratchbuild the bits you need. You may want to make squash moulds of some of the details on the Emhar kit and get a punch and die set for the rivets,but you'll find the Emhar kit needs the gun barrels replaced, the male sponsons will need the rear plate angle corrected, and the basic shape of the kit is slightly off too. My suggestion? Male: Use the tracks and correct the sponsons, use the kit hull side plates as templates for scratch built ones (pick your variant, but you'll need longer 6pdr guns for Mk I-III), and rework the drivers plate so you can open the vision flaps (note you'll need a new plate for earlier marks). Female: Use the sponson drawings on the Landship site for the early Vickers-armed type seen on MkI and MkII, MkIII and MkIV use the kit parts with gun barrels replaced. The kit tracks are slightly off too but they are too much bother to correct by my book. I am going to do a bunch of these 1/35th scale conversions when I am all done university, starting with a MkV** from the Emhar MkV but including a MkI female too. The tank museum has some stuff on these early beasts, but not to the degree that they have documentation for the MkIV and MkV. This forum should be the place to look for experts on the basic dimensions, but check Landships out too. Feel free to get in touch, these are the most interesting tank model projects of all!

mp robinson
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Joined: May 11th, 2006, 2:14 pm

December 2nd, 2007, 4:27 pm #3

hi there,many thanks for the help with my mark 1 conversion it sounds a fair bit to do,i have a couple of the old airfix mark one kits but want to do something a bit larger,kind regards. richard.
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Joined: February 20th, 2003, 12:29 am

December 2nd, 2007, 10:13 pm #4

Hi Richard, the matter becomes one of how far one is willing to go. The MkIV Emhar has some fundamental flaws in terms of dimensional accuracy but is the only 1/35th scale game in town. The Landships site has some good plans and conversion advice for the Airfix MkI and Emhar MkIV kits in 1/76th and 1/72nd scale that could be scaled up. There were many differences in details too, but since you would mostly need tracks and sponsons for the conversions I would suggest the MkV kit, which comes with both sets of sponsons, as a starter. The best course is to settle on some drawings, figure out how the Emhar kit best fits the conversion, and then scratchbuild the bits you need. You may want to make squash moulds of some of the details on the Emhar kit and get a punch and die set for the rivets,but you'll find the Emhar kit needs the gun barrels replaced, the male sponsons will need the rear plate angle corrected, and the basic shape of the kit is slightly off too. My suggestion? Male: Use the tracks and correct the sponsons, use the kit hull side plates as templates for scratch built ones (pick your variant, but you'll need longer 6pdr guns for Mk I-III), and rework the drivers plate so you can open the vision flaps (note you'll need a new plate for earlier marks). Female: Use the sponson drawings on the Landship site for the early Vickers-armed type seen on MkI and MkII, MkIII and MkIV use the kit parts with gun barrels replaced. The kit tracks are slightly off too but they are too much bother to correct by my book. I am going to do a bunch of these 1/35th scale conversions when I am all done university, starting with a MkV** from the Emhar MkV but including a MkI female too. The tank museum has some stuff on these early beasts, but not to the degree that they have documentation for the MkIV and MkV. This forum should be the place to look for experts on the basic dimensions, but check Landships out too. Feel free to get in touch, these are the most interesting tank model projects of all!

mp robinson
Hi MP Robinson,

You mentioned the "Landships" site in your response to Richard. Do you have a URL for it? I'm interested in the Mk series also.

TIA
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Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:16 am

December 3rd, 2007, 6:29 am #5

hi guys,has anybody got any good advice on how i could make the emhar mark iv tank into the earlier mark one version? are there any conversions?,articles? or does anybody know whatys needed?,kind regards to you all.
richard, i'm afraid its a bit more complicated than MP Robonson's fine answer.

the male sponsons used on the mark one were a different shape to those used on the mark four or five. and i dont mean just the rear angle, but the whole structure. you'll just have to look at photos to see the difference. the long 6pdr versus the short 6pdr has been discussed.

the female sponsons of the mark one have been discussed. the mark one used the Vickers. the mark two (used at Arras) used the Lewis, but in the same large sponson as the mark one, with a small (2 feet high) door. the mark four females used small sponsons with Lewis. the mark five females used the small sponson with Hotchkiss.

the mark one tanks had a cab (in literature from the time it is called 'the conning tower') that was wider than any of the subsequent marks.

the opening for the track tensioner was rounded, whereas in the mark two and onwards it was squared off.

and a major headache is going to be the tail assembly (unless you build one of the mark one tanks sent to Palestine). it was present only on the mark one. also, the mark one's fuel tanks were inside the front 'horns'. this means that later marks have a very different rear end.

the exhaust and the roof of the mark one are different too.

so, essentially, you would have to change, the cab width, the roof (behind the cab), the exhaust outlet, the track tensioners, both sponsons (whether male or female), guns, and the rear panel, and build a hydraulic unit and tail assembly.

there are plans of the mark one on the Landships site (or linked to it)

the URL for landships is <a href="http://www.landships.freeservers.com/</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.landships.freeservers.com/</a>

there are kits available of the mark one, in 1/35 scale. but they dont have brilliant reviews.

its a great deal easier in 1/76th!

good luck
Last edited by philthydirtyanimal on December 3rd, 2007, 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:16 am

December 3rd, 2007, 6:42 am #6

Hi Richard, the matter becomes one of how far one is willing to go. The MkIV Emhar has some fundamental flaws in terms of dimensional accuracy but is the only 1/35th scale game in town. The Landships site has some good plans and conversion advice for the Airfix MkI and Emhar MkIV kits in 1/76th and 1/72nd scale that could be scaled up. There were many differences in details too, but since you would mostly need tracks and sponsons for the conversions I would suggest the MkV kit, which comes with both sets of sponsons, as a starter. The best course is to settle on some drawings, figure out how the Emhar kit best fits the conversion, and then scratchbuild the bits you need. You may want to make squash moulds of some of the details on the Emhar kit and get a punch and die set for the rivets,but you'll find the Emhar kit needs the gun barrels replaced, the male sponsons will need the rear plate angle corrected, and the basic shape of the kit is slightly off too. My suggestion? Male: Use the tracks and correct the sponsons, use the kit hull side plates as templates for scratch built ones (pick your variant, but you'll need longer 6pdr guns for Mk I-III), and rework the drivers plate so you can open the vision flaps (note you'll need a new plate for earlier marks). Female: Use the sponson drawings on the Landship site for the early Vickers-armed type seen on MkI and MkII, MkIII and MkIV use the kit parts with gun barrels replaced. The kit tracks are slightly off too but they are too much bother to correct by my book. I am going to do a bunch of these 1/35th scale conversions when I am all done university, starting with a MkV** from the Emhar MkV but including a MkI female too. The tank museum has some stuff on these early beasts, but not to the degree that they have documentation for the MkIV and MkV. This forum should be the place to look for experts on the basic dimensions, but check Landships out too. Feel free to get in touch, these are the most interesting tank model projects of all!

mp robinson
hi MP,

i was wondering if you meant you were going to make a mark five star, or a mark five 2-star? you said '2-star' which is the one that was never used in combat and has the 'double' cab at the front only (there is one in Bovington Tank Museum).

the one that was used in the last few months of the war, was the five star (just one star) and was, more-or-less, a stretched mark five. it had two cabs (or cupolas or conning towers), and the rear cab of the five star has a different profile to the rear cab of an ordinary mark five. (there is a mark V* in The Patton Museum, I think).
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Joined: May 11th, 2006, 2:14 pm

December 3rd, 2007, 2:10 pm #7

richard, i'm afraid its a bit more complicated than MP Robonson's fine answer.

the male sponsons used on the mark one were a different shape to those used on the mark four or five. and i dont mean just the rear angle, but the whole structure. you'll just have to look at photos to see the difference. the long 6pdr versus the short 6pdr has been discussed.

the female sponsons of the mark one have been discussed. the mark one used the Vickers. the mark two (used at Arras) used the Lewis, but in the same large sponson as the mark one, with a small (2 feet high) door. the mark four females used small sponsons with Lewis. the mark five females used the small sponson with Hotchkiss.

the mark one tanks had a cab (in literature from the time it is called 'the conning tower') that was wider than any of the subsequent marks.

the opening for the track tensioner was rounded, whereas in the mark two and onwards it was squared off.

and a major headache is going to be the tail assembly (unless you build one of the mark one tanks sent to Palestine). it was present only on the mark one. also, the mark one's fuel tanks were inside the front 'horns'. this means that later marks have a very different rear end.

the exhaust and the roof of the mark one are different too.

so, essentially, you would have to change, the cab width, the roof (behind the cab), the exhaust outlet, the track tensioners, both sponsons (whether male or female), guns, and the rear panel, and build a hydraulic unit and tail assembly.

there are plans of the mark one on the Landships site (or linked to it)

the URL for landships is <a href="http://www.landships.freeservers.com/</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.landships.freeservers.com/</a>

there are kits available of the mark one, in 1/35 scale. but they dont have brilliant reviews.

its a great deal easier in 1/76th!

good luck
hi phil,thank you so much for the mark one info its much appreciated hopefully emhar may do an early mark,kind regards to you. richard.
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Joined: March 25th, 2007, 10:42 pm

December 4th, 2007, 2:18 am #8

Hi all: First of all, my apologies.
I agree that I have unwittingly glossed over the complexity of converting Emhar's MkIV-V to a MkI-III, and I hope that I have not confused anyone. The male sponsons are a good point, and I appreciate the correction. The MkI did indeed have different features from the MkIV but all I am saying is that there are some bits in Emhars boxes that can be of use.
I also recognize that the accuracy of the 1/35 Emhar MkIV is not ideal , but I would applaud anyone who goes ahead and uses its parts to scratchbuild those elusive and under-appreciated early Heavy Tanks. The matter becomes entirely one of personal choice. I would personally rather have a model that was 90% accurate and actually get it built than to never build the intended subject. Some modellers would differ, and I can respect that.
As to my intended conversions, I indeed wish to do a MkV* or MkV**, and the determining factor will likely be documentation. I have some plan views that I have sized down to 1/35 and I will likely make my choice at the last minute! Anyone with interest in conversions from the Emhar kits is most welcome to contact me, I have many questions to ask!

mp robinson
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Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:16 am

December 4th, 2007, 1:05 pm #9

hi mp

sorry, i didnt mean to be rude, i hope i didnt seem so.

i am usually stupefied by the sheer talent of the model makers on this forum. a lot of people on here could probably just scratchbuild a mark one. i think maybe that was part of my point; to change either of the emhar kits to a mark one would, in my opinion (based on my minimal talent for model building), be about as much work as scratchbuilding one.

i was able to comment so much only because i have given this very project a lot of thought myself. and it seems quite daunting to me.
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Joined: March 5th, 2004, 1:20 pm

December 5th, 2007, 10:04 am #10

n/t

Regards from Canada.
Francois Gousse
WWI Forum moderator
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