An A7V question.

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An A7V question.

Tomas Jakl
Tomas Jakl

March 30th, 2004, 7:45 pm #1

Hi folks,

plese, have anyone of you seen this picture?


http://mujweb.cz/www/tanks/A7V.htm

If yes, in which book and with which caption?
Any info needed.

Thanks in advance
Tomas
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David Nickels
David Nickels

March 30th, 2004, 9:48 pm #2

It is in the old Profile publication; first series. I don;t have it in front of me to check the caption. IIRC one tank was displayed in Paris so this could be it on a railcar.
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mike foncannon
mike foncannon

March 31st, 2004, 12:09 am #3

Tomas,

I cannot tell you exactly where your photo was taken but the same tank was put on exhibition at the Place de la Concorde in Paris on November 9th, 1918.

There is a photo of it with other captured trophies on page 123 of "The German A7V Tank and the Captured British Mark IV Tanks of World War I" by Maxwell Hundleby & Rainer Strasheim.

She was Tank III assigned to Abteilung 2 and commanded by Leutnant Stein. She was lost near Villes-Bretonneux on 24 April 1918 when she slipped into a sand pit and overturned while supporting the advance of the 4th GdDiv south of Villers-Brettoneux.

(This is the same day as the First Tank on Tank battle between Lt Mitchell's Mk IV and the A7V #561 Nixe farther North.)

When British troops tried to capture the tanks the 22 man crew of Elfriede fought them off to a draw with rifles, machine guns and grenades. Lt Stein was killed and when the British withdrew, his crew did likewise, carrying his body back to German lines.

A German engineer party, sent out that night to destroy Elfriede were not told that Mephisto had also broken down on the same line of march. As a result, Mephisto, which was repairable and recoverable...and still lay in German lines was blown up instead.

Elfriede lay between the lines until May 15th, 1918. She was recovered by soldiers of the French 37th Division and the British 1st Battalion, Tank Corps. She was the first A7V captured by the Allies.

When the captured German tanks were divvied up at the end of the war, the French received Elfriede.

The vertical stains running down on each side of the national marking are distinctive.

Your photo might have been taken at the V-B railway station that lay about 700m due North from the sandpit after the recovery operation and successfully getting it on the railcar, an event that these railroaders might have found significant enough to memorialize.

hth,
mike
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Jakko Westerbeke
Jakko Westerbeke

March 31st, 2004, 9:03 am #4

Hi folks,

plese, have anyone of you seen this picture?


http://mujweb.cz/www/tanks/A7V.htm

If yes, in which book and with which caption?
Any info needed.

Thanks in advance
Tomas
Although I can't see the photo (it doesn't seem to exist when I try to open it directly), here are some more photos of Elfriede, probably taken while it was being recovered http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thr ... 1079962907
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David Maynard
David Maynard

March 31st, 2004, 9:13 am #5

Tomas,

I cannot tell you exactly where your photo was taken but the same tank was put on exhibition at the Place de la Concorde in Paris on November 9th, 1918.

There is a photo of it with other captured trophies on page 123 of "The German A7V Tank and the Captured British Mark IV Tanks of World War I" by Maxwell Hundleby & Rainer Strasheim.

She was Tank III assigned to Abteilung 2 and commanded by Leutnant Stein. She was lost near Villes-Bretonneux on 24 April 1918 when she slipped into a sand pit and overturned while supporting the advance of the 4th GdDiv south of Villers-Brettoneux.

(This is the same day as the First Tank on Tank battle between Lt Mitchell's Mk IV and the A7V #561 Nixe farther North.)

When British troops tried to capture the tanks the 22 man crew of Elfriede fought them off to a draw with rifles, machine guns and grenades. Lt Stein was killed and when the British withdrew, his crew did likewise, carrying his body back to German lines.

A German engineer party, sent out that night to destroy Elfriede were not told that Mephisto had also broken down on the same line of march. As a result, Mephisto, which was repairable and recoverable...and still lay in German lines was blown up instead.

Elfriede lay between the lines until May 15th, 1918. She was recovered by soldiers of the French 37th Division and the British 1st Battalion, Tank Corps. She was the first A7V captured by the Allies.

When the captured German tanks were divvied up at the end of the war, the French received Elfriede.

The vertical stains running down on each side of the national marking are distinctive.

Your photo might have been taken at the V-B railway station that lay about 700m due North from the sandpit after the recovery operation and successfully getting it on the railcar, an event that these railroaders might have found significant enough to memorialize.

hth,
mike
Its possible the picture was taken some time after recovery as a piece of the side armour has been cut out near the front.

The link brought up the picture for me.
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Joseph Fullerton
Joseph Fullerton

March 31st, 2004, 2:08 pm #6

Hi folks,

plese, have anyone of you seen this picture?


http://mujweb.cz/www/tanks/A7V.htm

If yes, in which book and with which caption?
Any info needed.

Thanks in advance
Tomas
One of the men in front is from a Scots lowland regiment. His trews look like Cameron of Erracht, which would be the Scottish Rifles (Cameronians).
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TomᚠJakl
TomᚠJakl

March 31st, 2004, 4:38 pm #7

Hi folks,

plese, have anyone of you seen this picture?


http://mujweb.cz/www/tanks/A7V.htm

If yes, in which book and with which caption?
Any info needed.

Thanks in advance
Tomas
I have found this picture in a Czechoslovak newspaper from 1919. There was nothing about it. My friend only identificated Frech uniforms with capes as probably Gendarmerie.
Many thanks again.

With best regards
Tomas
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Gerry Chester
Gerry Chester

April 3rd, 2004, 8:37 pm #8

Tomas,

I cannot tell you exactly where your photo was taken but the same tank was put on exhibition at the Place de la Concorde in Paris on November 9th, 1918.

There is a photo of it with other captured trophies on page 123 of "The German A7V Tank and the Captured British Mark IV Tanks of World War I" by Maxwell Hundleby & Rainer Strasheim.

She was Tank III assigned to Abteilung 2 and commanded by Leutnant Stein. She was lost near Villes-Bretonneux on 24 April 1918 when she slipped into a sand pit and overturned while supporting the advance of the 4th GdDiv south of Villers-Brettoneux.

(This is the same day as the First Tank on Tank battle between Lt Mitchell's Mk IV and the A7V #561 Nixe farther North.)

When British troops tried to capture the tanks the 22 man crew of Elfriede fought them off to a draw with rifles, machine guns and grenades. Lt Stein was killed and when the British withdrew, his crew did likewise, carrying his body back to German lines.

A German engineer party, sent out that night to destroy Elfriede were not told that Mephisto had also broken down on the same line of march. As a result, Mephisto, which was repairable and recoverable...and still lay in German lines was blown up instead.

Elfriede lay between the lines until May 15th, 1918. She was recovered by soldiers of the French 37th Division and the British 1st Battalion, Tank Corps. She was the first A7V captured by the Allies.

When the captured German tanks were divvied up at the end of the war, the French received Elfriede.

The vertical stains running down on each side of the national marking are distinctive.

Your photo might have been taken at the V-B railway station that lay about 700m due North from the sandpit after the recovery operation and successfully getting it on the railcar, an event that these railroaders might have found significant enough to memorialize.

hth,
mike
She must have been repaired as she is on display in Australia. See:
http://www.qmuseum.qld.gov.au/features/mephisto/
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mike foncannon
mike foncannon

April 4th, 2004, 1:50 am #9

Fortunately, most of the damage from the blasting charge was externally limited to the forward combat compartment roof and "conning tower". These portions were blown outward.

In preparation for their Bicentenary, the Australians restored the outward appearance of "Mephisto", at least as seen from ground level.

An overhead shot reveals some of the damage still present.

hth,
mike

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