AMPS 2013 show theme concerns?

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AMPS 2013 show theme concerns?

Joined: August 29th, 2006, 8:49 pm

June 12th, 2012, 10:56 pm #1

The announcement of the AMPS national show in Atlanta has now been made. Even before this "official" statement was posted, though, I and some friends had heard questions and concerns regarding the theme "American Civil War Generals". Some folks seem to think this theme is overly World War Two AND Allied centric.

So, I decided to take a few minutes and jot down the list of vehicles, their users and service life as best my memory serves. I hope this is helpful and also, perhaps, clarifying. For simplicity I have only included "gun" or "cambat" versions to keep the list, well, you'll see... if all goes well, I hope to see you all in Atlanta.

JW


STUART - M2A4, M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5 & M5A1, M8 & Recce -
SERVICE LIFE - approx 1940 to sometime in the 1970's.
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan(WWII), Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Philippines, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, South Africa & Czechoslovakia.


LEE & GRANT - M3, M3A1, M3A2, M3A3, M3A4, M3A5, Lee CDL, Grant Scorpion, Grant CDL, Grant Command -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to 1945
USERS - USA, Austrailia, Brazil, India, Canada, N. Zealand, USSR, Britain & Germany(WWII)


SHERMAN - M4, M4 Composite, M4(105), M4A1, M4A1 76(w), M4A1E4(76), M4A1E9(76), M4A2, M4A2 76, M4A3, M4A3(105), M4A3E2, M4A3E8, M4A3 76(w), M4A3E4(76), M4A3E9(76), M4A4, M4A4T, M4A4/FL-10, M4A6, T6, M1, M50, M51 & all Firefly, Crab, BARV, DD, Kangaroo, OP & ARV variants -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to present?
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, Lebanon, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan, Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, Argentina, Denmark, Egypt, Israel, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Uganda, Iraq & Czechoslovakia.


SHERIDAN - M551, M551A1, M551A1 TTS, M551 NTC conversions
SERVICE LIFE - 1967 thru 2003
USER - US Army


JACKSON(?) - M36, M36B2
SERVICE LIFE - 1944 to present(?)
USER - USA, Canada, South Korea, France, Iran, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Slovenia, Serbia, Taiwan, Pakistan, Kosovo, Croatia & Bosnia
Last edited by cesafsky on June 13th, 2012, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 21st, 2001, 12:15 pm

June 12th, 2012, 11:02 pm #2

Someone would get tweaked about having a Sherman Firefly in Atlanta...considering what General Sherman did in the Civil War



Peter Griffin: Any problem caused by a tank can be solved by a tank.
Peter Griffin: Any problem caused by a tank can be solved by a tank.
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Joined: April 22nd, 2005, 1:05 am

June 12th, 2012, 11:32 pm #3

The announcement of the AMPS national show in Atlanta has now been made. Even before this "official" statement was posted, though, I and some friends had heard questions and concerns regarding the theme "American Civil War Generals". Some folks seem to think this theme is overly World War Two AND Allied centric.

So, I decided to take a few minutes and jot down the list of vehicles, their users and service life as best my memory serves. I hope this is helpful and also, perhaps, clarifying. For simplicity I have only included "gun" or "cambat" versions to keep the list, well, you'll see... if all goes well, I hope to see you all in Atlanta.

JW


STUART - M2A4, M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5 & M5A1, M8 & Recce -
SERVICE LIFE - approx 1940 to sometime in the 1970's.
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan(WWII), Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Philippines, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, South Africa & Czechoslovakia.


LEE & GRANT - M3, M3A1, M3A2, M3A3, M3A4, M3A5, Lee CDL, Grant Scorpion, Grant CDL, Grant Command -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to 1945
USERS - USA, Austrailia, Brazil, India, Canada, N. Zealand, USSR, Britain & Germany(WWII)


SHERMAN - M4, M4 Composite, M4(105), M4A1, M4A1 76(w), M4A1E4(76), M4A1E9(76), M4A2, M4A2 76, M4A3, M4A3(105), M4A3E2, M4A3E8, M4A3 76(w), M4A3E4(76), M4A3E9(76), M4A4, M4A4T, M4A4/FL-10, M4A6, T6, M1, M50, M51 & all Firefly, Crab, BARV, DD, Kangaroo, OP & ARV variants -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to present?
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, Lebanon, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan, Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, Argentina, Denmark, Egypt, Israel, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Uganda, Iraq & Czechoslovakia.


SHERIDAN - M551, M551A1, M551A1 TTS, M551 NTC conversions
SERVICE LIFE - 1967 thru 2003
USER - US Army


JACKSON(?) - M36, M36B2
SERVICE LIFE - 1944 to present(?)
USER - USA, Canada, South Korea, France, Iran, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Slovenia, Serbia, Taiwan, Pakistan, Kosovo, Croatia & Bosnia
Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson was a Civil War General and so was Joseph Hooker. I think that means as long as your base has a stonewall or a prostitute you are covered.
Thanks,
David
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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 4:04 pm

June 12th, 2012, 11:47 pm #4

The announcement of the AMPS national show in Atlanta has now been made. Even before this "official" statement was posted, though, I and some friends had heard questions and concerns regarding the theme "American Civil War Generals". Some folks seem to think this theme is overly World War Two AND Allied centric.

So, I decided to take a few minutes and jot down the list of vehicles, their users and service life as best my memory serves. I hope this is helpful and also, perhaps, clarifying. For simplicity I have only included "gun" or "cambat" versions to keep the list, well, you'll see... if all goes well, I hope to see you all in Atlanta.

JW


STUART - M2A4, M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5 & M5A1, M8 & Recce -
SERVICE LIFE - approx 1940 to sometime in the 1970's.
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan(WWII), Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Philippines, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, South Africa & Czechoslovakia.


LEE & GRANT - M3, M3A1, M3A2, M3A3, M3A4, M3A5, Lee CDL, Grant Scorpion, Grant CDL, Grant Command -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to 1945
USERS - USA, Austrailia, Brazil, India, Canada, N. Zealand, USSR, Britain & Germany(WWII)


SHERMAN - M4, M4 Composite, M4(105), M4A1, M4A1 76(w), M4A1E4(76), M4A1E9(76), M4A2, M4A2 76, M4A3, M4A3(105), M4A3E2, M4A3E8, M4A3 76(w), M4A3E4(76), M4A3E9(76), M4A4, M4A4T, M4A4/FL-10, M4A6, T6, M1, M50, M51 & all Firefly, Crab, BARV, DD, Kangaroo, OP & ARV variants -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to present?
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, Lebanon, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan, Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, Argentina, Denmark, Egypt, Israel, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Uganda, Iraq & Czechoslovakia.


SHERIDAN - M551, M551A1, M551A1 TTS, M551 NTC conversions
SERVICE LIFE - 1967 thru 2003
USER - US Army


JACKSON(?) - M36, M36B2
SERVICE LIFE - 1944 to present(?)
USER - USA, Canada, South Korea, France, Iran, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Slovenia, Serbia, Taiwan, Pakistan, Kosovo, Croatia & Bosnia
Back in 2005 I (Formations) sponsored the "Best Sherman in Atlanta" award at the IPMS Nationals. Which was won by M-L frequent visitor Tony Fradkin. As I remember everyone enjoyed the special award (although there were many others) and there were many participants. Especially considering what general Sherman did in Georgia!

Cheers,
Rob
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Joined: May 3rd, 2006, 1:28 am

June 13th, 2012, 12:42 am #5

The announcement of the AMPS national show in Atlanta has now been made. Even before this "official" statement was posted, though, I and some friends had heard questions and concerns regarding the theme "American Civil War Generals". Some folks seem to think this theme is overly World War Two AND Allied centric.

So, I decided to take a few minutes and jot down the list of vehicles, their users and service life as best my memory serves. I hope this is helpful and also, perhaps, clarifying. For simplicity I have only included "gun" or "cambat" versions to keep the list, well, you'll see... if all goes well, I hope to see you all in Atlanta.

JW


STUART - M2A4, M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5 & M5A1, M8 & Recce -
SERVICE LIFE - approx 1940 to sometime in the 1970's.
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan(WWII), Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Philippines, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, South Africa & Czechoslovakia.


LEE & GRANT - M3, M3A1, M3A2, M3A3, M3A4, M3A5, Lee CDL, Grant Scorpion, Grant CDL, Grant Command -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to 1945
USERS - USA, Austrailia, Brazil, India, Canada, N. Zealand, USSR, Britain & Germany(WWII)


SHERMAN - M4, M4 Composite, M4(105), M4A1, M4A1 76(w), M4A1E4(76), M4A1E9(76), M4A2, M4A2 76, M4A3, M4A3(105), M4A3E2, M4A3E8, M4A3 76(w), M4A3E4(76), M4A3E9(76), M4A4, M4A4T, M4A4/FL-10, M4A6, T6, M1, M50, M51 & all Firefly, Crab, BARV, DD, Kangaroo, OP & ARV variants -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to present?
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, Lebanon, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan, Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, Argentina, Denmark, Egypt, Israel, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Uganda, Iraq & Czechoslovakia.


SHERIDAN - M551, M551A1, M551A1 TTS, M551 NTC conversions
SERVICE LIFE - 1967 thru 2003
USER - US Army


JACKSON(?) - M36, M36B2
SERVICE LIFE - 1944 to present(?)
USER - USA, Canada, South Korea, France, Iran, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Slovenia, Serbia, Taiwan, Pakistan, Kosovo, Croatia & Bosnia
There are also Union Generals with the names, Dana, Churchill, and Dodge. So if I entered a Dodge staff car does it count ?
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Joined: February 22nd, 2001, 4:07 am

June 13th, 2012, 4:35 am #6

There were also Civil War generals named Bradley and Walker. Should these be allowed? But the M2/M3 Bradley was named after Omar Bradley and the M41 light tank was named after Gen Walton Walker, who died in Korea.

It'd be disrespectful of them and denying the truth that those two AFVs were NOT named after Civil War generals at all.

So I don't think it'll be difficult to persuade the chief judge to allow only tanks NAMED after Civil War generals as opposed those few AFVs which coincidentally share a name with a Civil War general.

I'm 99.9% sure we'll stick with Stuart, Lee, Sherman, Grant, Sheridan and Jackson only.

Roy Chow
AMPS President
http://www.amps-armor.org
Last edited by roy_chow on June 13th, 2012, 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Roy Chow
Join AMPS!
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Joined: July 30th, 2006, 1:12 am

June 13th, 2012, 6:33 am #7

The announcement of the AMPS national show in Atlanta has now been made. Even before this "official" statement was posted, though, I and some friends had heard questions and concerns regarding the theme "American Civil War Generals". Some folks seem to think this theme is overly World War Two AND Allied centric.

So, I decided to take a few minutes and jot down the list of vehicles, their users and service life as best my memory serves. I hope this is helpful and also, perhaps, clarifying. For simplicity I have only included "gun" or "cambat" versions to keep the list, well, you'll see... if all goes well, I hope to see you all in Atlanta.

JW


STUART - M2A4, M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5 & M5A1, M8 & Recce -
SERVICE LIFE - approx 1940 to sometime in the 1970's.
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan(WWII), Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Philippines, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, South Africa & Czechoslovakia.


LEE & GRANT - M3, M3A1, M3A2, M3A3, M3A4, M3A5, Lee CDL, Grant Scorpion, Grant CDL, Grant Command -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to 1945
USERS - USA, Austrailia, Brazil, India, Canada, N. Zealand, USSR, Britain & Germany(WWII)


SHERMAN - M4, M4 Composite, M4(105), M4A1, M4A1 76(w), M4A1E4(76), M4A1E9(76), M4A2, M4A2 76, M4A3, M4A3(105), M4A3E2, M4A3E8, M4A3 76(w), M4A3E4(76), M4A3E9(76), M4A4, M4A4T, M4A4/FL-10, M4A6, T6, M1, M50, M51 & all Firefly, Crab, BARV, DD, Kangaroo, OP & ARV variants -
SERVICE LIFE - 1941 to present?
USERS - USA, USMC, Britain, Lebanon, N. Zealand, Poland, Japan, Germany(WWII), USSR, Canada, Australia, Yugoslavia, Republic of China, Brazil, Belgium, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Greece, Haiti, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Portugal, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, Argentina, Denmark, Egypt, Israel, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Uganda, Iraq & Czechoslovakia.


SHERIDAN - M551, M551A1, M551A1 TTS, M551 NTC conversions
SERVICE LIFE - 1967 thru 2003
USER - US Army


JACKSON(?) - M36, M36B2
SERVICE LIFE - 1944 to present(?)
USER - USA, Canada, South Korea, France, Iran, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Slovenia, Serbia, Taiwan, Pakistan, Kosovo, Croatia & Bosnia
It does not say the American Civil War, Cromwell English Civil War. Does any one have others?
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Joined: May 1st, 2003, 9:43 pm

June 13th, 2012, 7:54 am #8

How about dioramas containing a figure of a General from the Russian or Chinese Civil Wars? Or indeed from any recent Civil War (Sri Lanka, Libya, Vietnam, etc.)?

I guess folk will be creative!

This will be a super event, I hope I can get there,

Chris



Chris Lloyd-Staples
MAFVA Information Officer
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Joined: May 1st, 2003, 9:43 pm

June 13th, 2012, 8:12 am #9

There were also Civil War generals named Bradley and Walker. Should these be allowed? But the M2/M3 Bradley was named after Omar Bradley and the M41 light tank was named after Gen Walton Walker, who died in Korea.

It'd be disrespectful of them and denying the truth that those two AFVs were NOT named after Civil War generals at all.

So I don't think it'll be difficult to persuade the chief judge to allow only tanks NAMED after Civil War generals as opposed those few AFVs which coincidentally share a name with a Civil War general.

I'm 99.9% sure we'll stick with Stuart, Lee, Sherman, Grant, Sheridan and Jackson only.

Roy Chow
AMPS President
http://www.amps-armor.org
Hi Roy

I don't have any problem with the decision and choice of topic, but I do think you need to specify American Civil War, given that AMPS is an international organisation, and many of us have had our own civil wars.....(in the case of England, we've had a lot of them!)

If you want to limit the choice to the six vehicle types you list, then I guess it needs to be clear from the outset, for the sake of clarity. As 'the civil war' means something different to non-US citizens, it would be best to avoid anyone coming to the show and being disappointed.

For example: The civil war between Stephen and Matilda for the English throne began in 1136, and I had my Matilda tank ready for the competition..... LOL

I'm not making any kind of political point or even remotely any thought of criticism, but we do need to be clear!

Chris Lloyd-Staples
AMPS 2VP (International)






Chris Lloyd-Staples
MAFVA Information Officer
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Joined: January 5th, 2006, 10:24 pm

June 13th, 2012, 11:16 am #10

How about dioramas containing a figure of a General from the Russian or Chinese Civil Wars? Or indeed from any recent Civil War (Sri Lanka, Libya, Vietnam, etc.)?

I guess folk will be creative!

This will be a super event, I hope I can get there,

Chris



Chris Lloyd-Staples
MAFVA Information Officer
Yes. Roy we should state "American Civil War Generals".
Not a bad idea.

This is a great AMPS Show theme!

Frank Blanton

"Fantasy Football,
Dungeons and Dragons for Jocks"
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