Andy Dalton has the biggest drop in second half QB rating of anyone in the NFL

Joined: December 31st, 2012, 4:43 pm

November 17th, 2017, 3:21 pm #1

there's an article over at cincyjungle.com detailing the stats comparing QB rating in first half and second half... and Andy Dalton has the worst drop of any QB in the NFL (almost 40 points worse in the second half)

Come to think of it, Marvin Lewis said halftime adjustments are a myth.

A couple of folks commented that it means Lazor isn't good at play calling after the end of the scripted plays, but it could just as easily be that Dalton is a terrible QB after the end of the scripted plays. Or both.

At this point Dalton probably isn't even in the top 20 in the NFL in terms of who you would pick for QB, or maybe he's right at number 20. But he's paid a lot higher than that. The Bengals are now in a position where a COMPLETE REBUILD is needed and where they have two trade chips with value: AJ Green and Geno Atkins.

Look at the players with the most cap hit on the Bengals, after Dalton, AJ Green and Geno Atkins and it's an UGLY picture:

Dre Kirkpatrick (one of the worst DBs on his team and in the NFL, but he's paid like a quality FA cornerback)
Vontaze Burfict (his PFF grade for 2017 puts him at AVERAGE LB... and he has no trade value due to knucklehead factor)
Pacman Jones (PFF rating is terrible ... just a couple notches better than Dre Kirkpatrick... he got old last year and now it's certain he's done)
George Iloka (PFF grade is AVERAGE)
Michael Johnson (PFF grade has increased to around average this year, which is amazing, as last few years was terrible)
Brandon LaFell (PFF grade is PUTRID, he could be the worst WR #2 in the NFL)
Clint Boling (PFF below average)
Kevin Minter (PFF average, will be an FA)
Shawn Williams (PFF grade is average)
Gio Bernard (PFF grade below average)
Vincent Rey (PFF grade average)
-- at this point you hit John Ross! -- he's done NOTHING


People thinking the Bengals are a couple of players away from their 2015 level are seriously hallucinating. They've lost the core of the best players from that team for the most part (either letting them go in FA as with Marvin Jones and Whitworth, or because age took its toll as with the defensive backfield from 2015)

Blowing it all up is the only option. And we all know with Mikey at the helm that won't necessarily make it better.


===============================================
1991-2017 the putrid reign of Mikey Brown:
Record in Prime Time: 12 wins, 33 losses (0.267)
Record vs the Steelers: 14 wins, 42 losses (0.250)
Record vs AFC Playoff Teams: 32 wins, 116 losses (0.216)
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Joined: November 25th, 2007, 12:30 am

November 18th, 2017, 2:40 am #2

Thanks for the heads-up on the Andy Dalton piece. Here's the link:

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/11/16/ ... -worst-nfl

Last season, we looked at Dalton's QB rating by quarter over the course of his career. In 2016, he had the worst fourth quarter rating since his rookie year, and we blamed it on Ken Zampese because the personnel was generally the same throughout the game.

I went and updated the chart:


* through 9 games

Now I'm inclined to blame it on the offensive line. And the reason for that is how the line has imploded in the second half of games. On the other hand, Bill Lazor is still working with Zampese's playbook, so it could be a little bit of both.

Similar trend as last year, but now things have gotten worse. Whither Whitworth?
Last edited by psychostats on November 18th, 2017, 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
_______________________________________
" Bell-cow quarterbacks are like queen bees. Only one can take you to the land of milk and honey."
~ What Mike Brown never quite said, but should have.
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Joined: November 25th, 2007, 12:30 am

November 19th, 2017, 10:13 pm #3

there's an article over at cincyjungle.com detailing the stats comparing QB rating in first half and second half... and Andy Dalton has the worst drop of any QB in the NFL (almost 40 points worse in the second half)

Come to think of it, Marvin Lewis said halftime adjustments are a myth.

A couple of folks commented that it means Lazor isn't good at play calling after the end of the scripted plays, but it could just as easily be that Dalton is a terrible QB after the end of the scripted plays. Or both.

At this point Dalton probably isn't even in the top 20 in the NFL in terms of who you would pick for QB, or maybe he's right at number 20. But he's paid a lot higher than that. The Bengals are now in a position where a COMPLETE REBUILD is needed and where they have two trade chips with value: AJ Green and Geno Atkins.

Look at the players with the most cap hit on the Bengals, after Dalton, AJ Green and Geno Atkins and it's an UGLY picture:

Dre Kirkpatrick (one of the worst DBs on his team and in the NFL, but he's paid like a quality FA cornerback)
Vontaze Burfict (his PFF grade for 2017 puts him at AVERAGE LB... and he has no trade value due to knucklehead factor)
Pacman Jones (PFF rating is terrible ... just a couple notches better than Dre Kirkpatrick... he got old last year and now it's certain he's done)
George Iloka (PFF grade is AVERAGE)
Michael Johnson (PFF grade has increased to around average this year, which is amazing, as last few years was terrible)
Brandon LaFell (PFF grade is PUTRID, he could be the worst WR #2 in the NFL)
Clint Boling (PFF below average)
Kevin Minter (PFF average, will be an FA)
Shawn Williams (PFF grade is average)
Gio Bernard (PFF grade below average)
Vincent Rey (PFF grade average)
-- at this point you hit John Ross! -- he's done NOTHING


People thinking the Bengals are a couple of players away from their 2015 level are seriously hallucinating. They've lost the core of the best players from that team for the most part (either letting them go in FA as with Marvin Jones and Whitworth, or because age took its toll as with the defensive backfield from 2015)

Blowing it all up is the only option. And we all know with Mikey at the helm that won't necessarily make it better.

One other point I wanted to make, and I'll make it now as I watch the Denver game.

The offensive line is so pathetically bad that they make everybody look like a lesser player than they really are. It really is all about the line. People get sick of talking about it because it's a dead horse beaten into the ground, but it really is the core of the problem.

All those nice analytics used by PFF cannot account for the halo effects of really poor line play. The other players simply cannot demonstrate their ability. Numbers and statistics are great, but they cannot assess what hasn't had a chance to manifest itself.
_______________________________________
" Bell-cow quarterbacks are like queen bees. Only one can take you to the land of milk and honey."
~ What Mike Brown never quite said, but should have.
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Joined: October 3rd, 2007, 8:53 pm

November 25th, 2017, 2:25 am #4

there's an article over at cincyjungle.com detailing the stats comparing QB rating in first half and second half... and Andy Dalton has the worst drop of any QB in the NFL (almost 40 points worse in the second half)

Come to think of it, Marvin Lewis said halftime adjustments are a myth.

A couple of folks commented that it means Lazor isn't good at play calling after the end of the scripted plays, but it could just as easily be that Dalton is a terrible QB after the end of the scripted plays. Or both.

At this point Dalton probably isn't even in the top 20 in the NFL in terms of who you would pick for QB, or maybe he's right at number 20. But he's paid a lot higher than that. The Bengals are now in a position where a COMPLETE REBUILD is needed and where they have two trade chips with value: AJ Green and Geno Atkins.

Look at the players with the most cap hit on the Bengals, after Dalton, AJ Green and Geno Atkins and it's an UGLY picture:

Dre Kirkpatrick (one of the worst DBs on his team and in the NFL, but he's paid like a quality FA cornerback)
Vontaze Burfict (his PFF grade for 2017 puts him at AVERAGE LB... and he has no trade value due to knucklehead factor)
Pacman Jones (PFF rating is terrible ... just a couple notches better than Dre Kirkpatrick... he got old last year and now it's certain he's done)
George Iloka (PFF grade is AVERAGE)
Michael Johnson (PFF grade has increased to around average this year, which is amazing, as last few years was terrible)
Brandon LaFell (PFF grade is PUTRID, he could be the worst WR #2 in the NFL)
Clint Boling (PFF below average)
Kevin Minter (PFF average, will be an FA)
Shawn Williams (PFF grade is average)
Gio Bernard (PFF grade below average)
Vincent Rey (PFF grade average)
-- at this point you hit John Ross! -- he's done NOTHING


People thinking the Bengals are a couple of players away from their 2015 level are seriously hallucinating. They've lost the core of the best players from that team for the most part (either letting them go in FA as with Marvin Jones and Whitworth, or because age took its toll as with the defensive backfield from 2015)

Blowing it all up is the only option. And we all know with Mikey at the helm that won't necessarily make it better.

hey but Mikey will draft a couple tackles next year, and Paul will coach em up. we'll be fine
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Joined: February 12th, 2011, 2:24 am

November 25th, 2017, 4:46 pm #5

there's an article over at cincyjungle.com detailing the stats comparing QB rating in first half and second half... and Andy Dalton has the worst drop of any QB in the NFL (almost 40 points worse in the second half)

Come to think of it, Marvin Lewis said halftime adjustments are a myth.

A couple of folks commented that it means Lazor isn't good at play calling after the end of the scripted plays, but it could just as easily be that Dalton is a terrible QB after the end of the scripted plays. Or both.

At this point Dalton probably isn't even in the top 20 in the NFL in terms of who you would pick for QB, or maybe he's right at number 20. But he's paid a lot higher than that. The Bengals are now in a position where a COMPLETE REBUILD is needed and where they have two trade chips with value: AJ Green and Geno Atkins.

Look at the players with the most cap hit on the Bengals, after Dalton, AJ Green and Geno Atkins and it's an UGLY picture:

Dre Kirkpatrick (one of the worst DBs on his team and in the NFL, but he's paid like a quality FA cornerback)
Vontaze Burfict (his PFF grade for 2017 puts him at AVERAGE LB... and he has no trade value due to knucklehead factor)
Pacman Jones (PFF rating is terrible ... just a couple notches better than Dre Kirkpatrick... he got old last year and now it's certain he's done)
George Iloka (PFF grade is AVERAGE)
Michael Johnson (PFF grade has increased to around average this year, which is amazing, as last few years was terrible)
Brandon LaFell (PFF grade is PUTRID, he could be the worst WR #2 in the NFL)
Clint Boling (PFF below average)
Kevin Minter (PFF average, will be an FA)
Shawn Williams (PFF grade is average)
Gio Bernard (PFF grade below average)
Vincent Rey (PFF grade average)
-- at this point you hit John Ross! -- he's done NOTHING


People thinking the Bengals are a couple of players away from their 2015 level are seriously hallucinating. They've lost the core of the best players from that team for the most part (either letting them go in FA as with Marvin Jones and Whitworth, or because age took its toll as with the defensive backfield from 2015)

Blowing it all up is the only option. And we all know with Mikey at the helm that won't necessarily make it better.

Could it be also that the bungs are one of the worst teams in the league at making half time "adjustments"? I said on another thread that giggles given the right talent could get the bungs to the playoffs and that's about it. For that reason I would give giggles a C and that might be generous. A low C at that. Giggles as discussed on other threads in the past really belongs in the FO.
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