HammerFall vs. Titanic Death Knights

You feel you can logically defend the idea of Eyescream defeating Superman then this is the place to do it.

Moderators: Foxy Shazam, jaxthejester, Tavern Master Brewer, Foxy Shazam, jaxthejester, Tavern Master Brewer

HammerFall vs. Titanic Death Knights

jaxthejester
Cosmic Being
jaxthejester
Cosmic Being
Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 09:06

02 Oct 2017, 22:41 #1

2017 Mega Class Draft Battle!

HammerFall
Batman (Hellbat) - Team Leader
Supreme
Thor
Beta Ray Bill
Cassandra Nova - Offensive Telepath Designate

VS

Titanic Death Knights
Toyo Harada - Team Leader/Offensive Telepath Designate #1
Lady Death
Solar
Infinity Man
Zatanna - Offensive Telepath Designate #2

Bios Thread Link
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comi ... opic=16208

The Arena: Gotham City - Late Afternoon
* The weather is overcast, late afternoon. There is sufficient sunlight to recharge solar powers in the open areas (sky, roof-tops, open street); however, the areas around buildings and in alleys are heavily shaded and gloomy enough to safely house characters that are vulnerable to sunlight (great for vampires and stealth).
* All typical modern Urban elements are present. There is power active and utilities active in all buildings. There is a subway system in place, sewers, and small parks. There are no human bystanders, but there is typical urban animal life and animal life specific to DCU Gotham City.
* The portion of usable Gotham includes the city scape noted above, bordering the ocean harbor. There are a limited supply of boats and typical harbor items.
* The borders of the map are: 3 Square Miles of impenetrable Force Field bubble, covering 1 mile of harbor/water and 2 miles of city bordering the harbor. The force shield is a giant Box Shape that extends up to 3,000 square feet high (several hundred feet higher than the tallest skyscraper). The force barrier allows for teleportation of items into the barriers (i.e. yes, you can summon minions), but it blocks any and all attempts to leave the battlefield. Teleportation via dimension hopping is allowed, but it must be immediate effect - no camping. The force bubble likewise extends 3,000 feet below sea level, allowing for tunneling and use of subway features or deep water features.
* Teams start on opposite sides of the city, approximately half a mile from the harbor.
• No leaving the Battle Arena. Characters move around the limits of the map and up to a maximum of 3,000 feet in the air. This is higher than the tallest building in recorded history just for reference.



The following Rules apply to this Draft:

* Scoring Cards to be debuted (see below). By playing, you are agreeing to Vote in every match and to give the Score Cards a try. You'll be able to copy and paste them from below, just fill in 5 single digit numbers. Super easy, and super required. No lazy bums! [spanky]
* No characters that are impossible to damage. They must be K.O.-able in some way.
* No powers that are impossible to defend against. This includes anything that would insta-kill or insta-K.O. a Class 12 or Class 13 foe.
• Only 2 Offensive Mind-Attackers per team. This includes Telepathic blasting/control/mental illusions, magical compulsion, chemical or Tech effects that simulate said effects.
* No Time Manipulation.
• No Prep Time. Characters are limited to their own knowledge of opponent characters and basic knowledge of team-mate powers.
• Morality is on. All characters act and fight "in character." All characters are motivated to win. Team members may not get along, but they will not attack each other unless absolutely necessary to defend their own moral compass, and they will attempt to work towards the mutual goal of victory (independently if necessary and within the accord of their own moral compasses). They may or may not allow actions to occur that are opposed to their morality (i.e. Captain America isn't going to stand by while Deadpool sprays bullets at good guys, etc.).
• Win by only K.O., Death, or Surrender. No BFRing.
• Standard Gear. No sharing of gear between team members. No giving other members "bits" of your body to use as weapons, or other such effects that are contrary to the primary rule.
• Anyone can post questions or comments during the match, but the characters in the matches act OF THEIR OWN VOLITION, or under the guidance of team leaders if applicable. Tactics posts may be used, but under the understanding that they are presented as "probable actions" based on your team build. You will need to defend the likeliness of said tactics.

Good luck!

Voting Rules!

• Voting may commence immediately, standard vs. forum rules apply. All votes must be accompanied by the following copied and pasted score card:

*********************************************************

Voting Score Card

Leadership (1-5) :
Teamwork (1-5) :
Power Levels (1-5) :
Match Trumps (1-5) :
X-Factors (1-5) :

Total Score :


*********************************************************

:thankyousai:

Explanation of Score Card:

All you do is assign a number to each category. No justification needed; not commentary required. It'll take less than a minute. These are all basic things we consider in every match already, we'd just be sharing the simplest parts with the players to help them build better; and if you're of the "flip a coin" mindset, you get something better to vote off of.

Note: You do not have to "vote the cards." Your vote is your vote; you alone pick your winner. But this at least gives a very basic, very minimal "something" to the players to help them know if they should change things up with their next team build. It's simple but potentially really helpful.

Here's a breakdown of the categories:
-------------------------------------------

Leadership - is any play calling that is like to occur on your team from any source.
Teamwork - is how well your picks work together and play off of each other (synergy).
Power Levels - is how powerful you think each team is.
Match Trumps - is which team wins the most 1x1 matches. (I.E. Which team has best Rock, Paper, Scissor match-ups against the other team).
X-Factors - is how much/many game changing "it" factors the team has. (I.E. Game Changing powers, Buffs/Debuffs, etc).


Good luck and happy debating! [happy]
When all other factors and possibilities have been eliminated from the equation; Whatever remains, regardless of how improbable it may be, is inevitably the truth.

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An Ri Leon
Kree
Joined: 23 Nov 2007, 05:28

03 Oct 2017, 02:35 #2

I vote Titanic Death Knights. Infinity Man is probably the highest tier 13 in the entire level 13. He has powers out the wazoo. Plus the Hell Bat is such a plot device that I just can't vote for a weapon that has so few showings and required massive amount of plot devices to keep going.
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013, 10:35

03 Oct 2017, 02:35 #3

I’m having trouble wrapping my head around Hellbat here. Beyond the obvious Batman/Gotham connection, his limited appearances are making me wonder how he’d fair in some of these potential matchups.
[img]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/330/d/b/iron_spider_suiting_up_animation_by_z_studios-d5mb1l8.gif[/img]

[img]http://s26.postimg.org/4nmacq3kp/Professor_Zoom_runs.gif[/img]
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Joined: 02 Oct 2013, 13:41

03 Oct 2017, 02:37 #4

If he doesn't have a solid counter for his armor being turned into a paper bag, he's in trouble even if it is really powerful.
Check out the Outstanding Fan Fic section. We re-envision some of your favorite Marvel characters, and maybe some that you have never heard about:Outstanding Fan Fiction

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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

03 Oct 2017, 02:44 #5

Iron_Spider @ Oct 2 2017, 10:35 PM wrote: I’m having trouble wrapping my head around Hellbat here. Beyond the obvious Batman/Gotham connection, his limited appearances are making me wonder how he’d fair in some of these potential matchups.
What do you need to know?

Speed - It was fast enough to fly around Apokolips in seconds. Flash even tested it against the speedforce.

Strength - Knocked Darkseid on his ass. Made Darkseid bleed in a single punch. One-shotted Kalibak.

Durability - Forged in the sun by Superman. Withstand the temperatures of the inside of a star. Tanked some shots from Darkseid. After Darkseid stomped it into the ground and ripped the wings off it turned into a swarm of bats with Batman inside (don't ask how) and reformed.

Blasting - Knocked Darkseid on his ass with a single blast.

Energy absorption - Was able to absorb the omega effect into the chaos shard in the armor.
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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

03 Oct 2017, 02:48 #6

The Thor and Beta Ray Bill combo is the most dangerous part of the team. These two working together is more like a level 15 threat (not really, but you get it).

When these two start smashing their hammers together there's no one here who would not be in danger.
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An Ri Leon
Kree
Joined: 23 Nov 2007, 05:28

03 Oct 2017, 02:50 #7

Mr. Awesome @ Oct 2 2017, 08:44 PM wrote:
Iron_Spider @ Oct 2 2017, 10:35 PM wrote: I’m having trouble wrapping my head around Hellbat here. Beyond the obvious Batman/Gotham connection, his limited appearances are making me wonder how he’d fair in some of these potential matchups.
What do you need to know?

Speed - It was fast enough to fly around Apokolips in seconds. Flash even tested it against the speedforce.

Strength - Knocked Darkseid on his ass. Made Darkseid bleed in a single punch. One-shotted Kalibak.

Durability - Forged in the sun by Superman. Withstand the temperatures of the inside of a star. Tanked some shots from Darkseid. After Darkseid stomped it into the ground and ripped the wings off it turned into a swarm of bats with Batman inside (don't ask how) and reformed.

Blasting - Knocked Darkseid on his ass with a single blast.

Energy absorption - Was able to absorb the omega effect into the chaos shard in the armor.
It didn't one shot Kalibak. He wrestled Kalibak and swiped his weapon which he used to blast Kalibak. It was a brief scuffle but it was Kalibak's weapon that briefly KOed him.

The chaos shard was specifically tuned to Darkseid's Onega Beams... Somehow. That isn't going to help here.

It also drains Batman's metabolism and slowly kills him.
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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

03 Oct 2017, 02:53 #8

And then there's Supreme, as I call him, Superman with a cheat code.

You can't turn him into anything. His molecules are in a constant state of flux.

Don't bother shielding. He bypasses force fields like they're not even there. He passed through a force field that had the power to warp a being’s molecules across 16 different dimensions.

He also cheats by adapting as he goes. Just like Nimrod he can develop new powers on the fly.
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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

03 Oct 2017, 03:04 #9

An Ri Leon @ Oct 2 2017, 10:50 PM wrote: It didn't one shot Kalibak. He wrestled Kalibak and swiped his weapon which he used to blast Kalibak. It was a brief scuffle but it was Kalibak's weapon that briefly KOed him.
Maybe not one shot, but still within a single page. It was hardly a fight.

Sure, Kalibak jobs at times. Usually not as one sided by a single character like that though.


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Joined: 02 Oct 2013, 13:41

03 Oct 2017, 15:15 #10

Owning Kalibak is hardly the worlds most impressive showing. The guy gets owned a lot.

I think I have a pretty good answer for Supreme with Infinity Man. He's a physical beast (has been said to be stronger than Orion, and has pretty consistently proven that to be correct). He's taken on Superman and had an advantage, and he was even able to take on Mr. Miracle with the Anti-Life Equation. He's also a bit of a Swiss army knife.
Check out the Outstanding Fan Fic section. We re-envision some of your favorite Marvel characters, and maybe some that you have never heard about:Outstanding Fan Fiction

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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

03 Oct 2017, 16:00 #11

thehulkster94 @ Oct 3 2017, 11:15 AM wrote: Owning Kalibak is hardly the worlds most impressive showing. The guy gets owned a lot.
Loses, yes. Not owned. There's a difference. His durability has been mostly consistent tanking multiple hits from Superman, Orion, Green Lantern, etc before going down. He has even won a few times.
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Redsledge
Kree
Joined: 17 Oct 2013, 02:44

03 Oct 2017, 20:32 #12

Indeed. Kalibaks comic showings arent as bad as his animated series showings. I wouldnt call it owned either.

Edit: My wording is incorrect. Im saying when he loses, he doesn't usually just get owned. He obviously got owned by Hellbat
One of the worlds greatest pleasures is secret knowledge. Things you learn that your peers don't know, or imagine you know. Its the lifetime batting average of every member of the Yankees, stats of Desert Storm, or the names and home-worlds of legions of Superheroes. Commit this knowledge to memory, and you can speak the private language of those who have approached this with equal dedication.

The will of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death - Musashi

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Xbox1: RedsledgeBLU
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Joined: 02 Oct 2013, 13:41

04 Oct 2017, 14:40 #13

My arguments:

Solar is a master of matter transmutation. He has a decent shot at being able to deconstruct the Hellbat armor (Lady Death has some transmuting abilities as well). If not, his energy manipulation should also give him some options here. If Solar can get a quick win, he could easily move on to take on Bill. If Hellbat has resistance to transmutation, that isn't a huge problem, I still think Solar should have the utility to finish him.

Infinity Man can match Supreme in strength and diversity. While Supreme's adaptation is impressive, Infinity Man has a number of options to attack with.

Lady Death should be a able to take on Thor. I'm not sure who would win that one, but she should have a decent shot at taking him.

Zatanna is a bit of a wild card here. She's not necessarily the perfect person to brawl with Bill, but she certainly has the utility to counter him. I actually wouldn't be surprised if she decided to BFR the hammers themselves to drop both Bill and Thor down a bit in threat level. She also has the utility to undercut some of the team work between the hammer bros. given the diversity of her magic.

Harada against Cassandra Nova should be a good fight. Honestly, I'm not sure who wins that fight. Cassandra Nova has had more showings against proven telepaths, but Harada is still clearly the best in his universe on that front. Both are absolutely ruthless, and both have a bit of utility. Where I think Harada might have an edge is that Harada is more proven with his telekinesis. I doubt Cassandra Nova will allow herself or her team to be shredded or have their brains popped out, but that side of things can still give him an edge.
Check out the Outstanding Fan Fic section. We re-envision some of your favorite Marvel characters, and maybe some that you have never heard about:Outstanding Fan Fiction

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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

05 Oct 2017, 20:21 #14

I won't be showing much unless anyone asks. Any questions on these guys or something you'd like to see before voting? I'll try to answer but no guarantees. Very busy weekend for me.
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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

05 Oct 2017, 20:36 #15

Nevermind the armor. I have the ultimate plot device on my side. The entire city of Gotham. This includes the Bat Cave.
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Mr. Awesome
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Mr. Awesome
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Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

05 Oct 2017, 20:37 #16

I also want everyone to know that I saw a midget at Comic Con! [happy]
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Thinkerer
Kree
Joined: 01 Oct 2013, 16:30

06 Oct 2017, 09:42 #17

Im voting Titanic Death Knights.
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Doc Omega
Living Tribunal
Doc Omega
Living Tribunal
Joined: 14 Jul 2008, 09:24

06 Oct 2017, 10:11 #18

HammerFall
Batman (Hellbat) - Team Leader
Supreme
Thor
Beta Ray Bill
Cassandra Nova - Offensive Telepath Designate

Voting Score Card

Leadership 5 :
Teamwork 5 :
Power Levels 4 :
Match Trumps 3 :
X-Factors 3 :

Total Score : 20

Titanic Death Knights
Toyo Harada - Team Leader/Offensive Telepath Designate #1
Lady Death
Solar
Infinity Man
Zatanna - Offensive Telepath Designate #2


Voting Score Card

Leadership 4 :
Teamwork 4 :
Power Levels 5 :
Match Trumps 4 :
X-Factors 4 :

Total Score : 21

Official Vote - TDK


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Joined: 01 Oct 2013, 07:32

07 Oct 2017, 15:48 #19

HammerFall
Batman (Hellbat) - Team Leader
Supreme
Thor
Beta Ray Bill
Cassandra Nova - Offensive Telepath Designate

Leadership: 4
Teamwork: 4
Power Levels: 4
Match Trumps: 1
X-Factors: 3

Total Score: 16

VS

Titanic Death Knights
Toyo Harada - Team Leader/Offensive Telepath Designate #1
Lady Death
Solar
Infinity Man
Zatanna - Offensive Telepath Designate #2

Leadership: 2
Teamwork: 3
Power Levels: 5
Match Trumps: 2
X-Factors: 3

Total Score: 15

Official Vote - Hammerfall
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Redsledge
Kree
Joined: 17 Oct 2013, 02:44

08 Oct 2017, 18:07 #20

Hammerfall
Voting Score Card

Leadership (1-5) : 3
Teamwork (1-5) : 4
Power Levels (1-5) : 5
Match Trumps (1-5) : 3
X-Factors (1-5) : 3

Total Score : 18


Titanic Death Knights
Voting Score Card

Leadership (1-5) : 2
Teamwork (1-5) : 3
Power Levels (1-5) : 5
Match Trumps (1-5) : 2
X-Factors (1-5) : 3

Total Score : 15

Vote goes to Hammerfall.

Not a lot of leadership here. We have already discussed Batman being a better tactician than an actual leader. Hes still better than Harada in this category. With Bill and Thor on hand as a strike team though, it of course buffers Batmans leadership ability. He would easily recognize both as something Akin to Cap. Marvel. This would allow him to direct his strike team more competently. The duo was a great steal.
One of the worlds greatest pleasures is secret knowledge. Things you learn that your peers don't know, or imagine you know. Its the lifetime batting average of every member of the Yankees, stats of Desert Storm, or the names and home-worlds of legions of Superheroes. Commit this knowledge to memory, and you can speak the private language of those who have approached this with equal dedication.

The will of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death - Musashi

PS4: Redsledge
Xbox1: RedsledgeBLU
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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
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Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

09 Oct 2017, 00:06 #21

Redsledge @ Oct 8 2017, 02:07 PM wrote: We have already discussed Batman being a better tactician than an actual leader. Hes still better than Harada in this category. With Bill and Thor on hand as a strike team though, it of course buffers Batmans leadership ability. He would easily recognize both as something Akin to Cap. Marvel. This would allow him to direct his strike team more competently. The duo was a great steal.
I know. I didn't put much into Batman with actual leadership. I only picked him as leader because he knows the battlefield better than any character in this tournament. He also has knowledge of a lot of the characters participating in it with plenty of intel to share.

He's also not stupid. He is going to recognize the Thor/Bill strike duo from the start and both are team players. He'll also know an obvious "Super clone" when he sees it and things will look good when he notices that he can walk through a lot of the stuff that would slow Superman down.
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Joined: 02 Oct 2013, 13:41

09 Oct 2017, 01:13 #22

That's assuming he actually survives long enough to lead. His tech is facing some challenges it hasn't been tested against, and just assuming he resists them relies a bit heavily in "it's Batman" logic.
Check out the Outstanding Fan Fic section. We re-envision some of your favorite Marvel characters, and maybe some that you have never heard about:Outstanding Fan Fiction

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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

09 Oct 2017, 01:18 #23

Same can be said about all leaders. It's what I have been saying for a long time.
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Mr. Awesome
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Mr. Awesome
Living Tribunal
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 08:46

09 Oct 2017, 01:20 #24

The armor has been tested.

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Joined: 02 Oct 2013, 13:41

09 Oct 2017, 01:34 #25

I'm not downplaying the armor, I meant it hasn't been shown to be immune to someone tampering with it's atomic structure, it also has not had substantial showings against magical manipulation.
Check out the Outstanding Fan Fic section. We re-envision some of your favorite Marvel characters, and maybe some that you have never heard about:Outstanding Fan Fiction

Now introducing Ask Hulkster Anyting! The place where you can ask all of your burning questions and I guarantee an answer.
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