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Regarding "What are you listening to?" Just a polite reminder that you aren't allowed to post more than 5 times per day in that thread. It is to be used as a place to share your musical tastes. It is not a place to rack up easy posts. Don't be that guy.
Doakes
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June 14th, 2018, 7:47 am #11

Rap hasn't appealed to me for almost twenty years, so this is entirely based on the video at hand, and based on some of the comments posted here.

It seems like a two-pronged issue. Because on one hand, it's an incredibly stupid thing to invite someone on stage to sing along if there's lyrics that, sung by anyone besides the rapper in PUBLIC, might upset people. So I don't think the rapper or the audience have any real right to be mad at this kid for that. The rapper is the stage smith, and as such, he has a responsibility to his audience and to the show at hand. Inviting someone who's white on stage to sing along to a song with a lot of derogatory slurs and not saying in advance, "Hey, maybe skip the parts when we get to the n-word, yeah?" To me, that shows incredible negligence. You can't just assume that some concert goer, let alone one with a couple of beers in them is going to have all their wits about them.

On the other hand, I'll be blunt, I think it's kind of asinine how many people are still saying, "Don't be offended by a word if you're gonna use it all the time." Taking a word meant to be derogatory and hateful and making it your own is not the same as having your cake and being offended by it too. Whether hateful or not, words have history and that history has weight. In an ideal world, those words wouldn't carry that weight, but no one has any right, none whatsoever to say what people should or shouldn't be bothered by. No one has any right to tell anyone how they should feel. A person is well within their rights to say as they please, but that doesn't mean those around you have to be okay with the words you choose to say.

Now, I DO get the mixed messages that can send. Dave Chappelle said it best in one of his earliest episodes. He was dropping the n-bomb repeatedly as part as of his show and had a field day with his glorious Black-White Supremacist skit. And sure enough, when people were on the streets after, greeting him and dropping n-bombs left and right, he was very taken back. So he addressed the issue and said he should've been a little more responsible and told his audience the impact and power those words have, why he uses them in the skits he had, and the intent behind them.

"Why is it that when you say the word and claim it for your own, it's okay, but when I do, I'm scrutinized?"

It's case by case, really. Racism has been something I've dealt with since I was a teenager. In college, some of you know I got into a very vicious fight over it that ended with a broken beer bottle getting lodged into my shoulder. Derogatory remarks don't hold the same weight for me anymore because of that incident, and because I'm almost forty years old and I try to live as best I can without carrying as much baggage as I did when I was your guys' age. But not everyone is in the same boat as I am.

I don't think using slurs and derogatory remarks makes someone a bad person. Intent is everything, and carelessness does not equate to racism. But I do think people who use those words liberally are inconsiderate and insensitive, because when you say things publicly, people around you are subjected to it, and not everyone appreciates hearing that kind of language so carelessly from anyone. If I hear a black guy dropping the n-bomb repeatedly, I won't get offended, but I'll still move away just because I don't want to constantly hear words like that, for the same reason I don't want to constantly hear people half my age cursing like sailors because it's fun to swear apparently. *It's cathartic when you drive, granted. :P *

To make a long story short because every single post I ever make is an essay none of you will ever read *not that I blame you,* the rapper was irresponsible for bringing someone on stage to sing along to a song with lyrics neither he nor his audience would be comfortable hearing her sing along to. That's basic common sense and even if common sense would dictate that maybe she SHOULDN'T have used those words, when someone's singing them to a cheering crowd and asking you to sing along, and you're also kind of drunk, it's easy to let your better judgement slip away. But that doesn't mean people don't have any right to be bothered when others liberally use derogatory or hurtful language. In this particular case, either he set her up for that publicity nonsense, or he was just negligent, but that doesn't negate the feelings many may have outside of this incident. Because in this particular incident, it's not as simple as this white girl went on stage and just started singing the n-word to a crowd of her own accord.
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The Baneposter
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June 14th, 2018, 8:05 am #12

webbie the fact that you felt attacked by what I said despite me not singling out a single person in this thread says more about you than it does about me
wrote:If MLK were still alive today I have a hard time believing he'd feel like he needed to keep up with all the marches and non-violent protests. I truly believe he'd be disgusted by groups like Black Lives Matter

Pretending MLK was nothing but a non violent swan is an absolute load of rubbish. He paved the way with non-violence but he also has a long history of radical ideals; it's just convenient to forget all about that side of MLK because it's an easy stick to beat black people with.
MLK wrote: "But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?...It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."
MLK chose a different path but he understood the purpose of violent protest and why it happens. He would not ''condemn'' BLM or put them down; that right wing wet dream is nothing but a load of bullshit.

Click
the rest of your post is just a combination of ''I have a black best friend'' and painfully off the mark readings into the way racism works in America but I can't be fucked honestly
wrote:This whole nigga thing is the most ridiculous thing in the world. If black people get offended by it, they should stop using the word themselves too. You can't allow one group of people to use a certain word and ban another group from using it. Either eveyone uses it, or no one does. It gets even more stupid when black people allow certain Hispanic or Latino people to use it, cause they are a minority too. Gtfo with that bs.

Also, wouldn't it be racist to single out a group of people by banning them from using a word deu to their skin color?
It makes perfect sense because like...context is a thing. You can't just pretend that it's a normal word without an incredible amount of baggage; that is incredibly and willfully ignorant. It's a term that's been used to put down a large group of people for a very long time; only they can decide when it's offensive or it's not - it's not for you or for me to decide when it is or isn't; black people's use of the term is an effort at reclaiming the word and stripping it of it's power. White people pretending they 2pac does nothing for that.

And no that's not how racism works. This is not racist against white people.
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Brera
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June 14th, 2018, 9:27 am #13

The Baneposter wrote:White people pretending they 2pac does nothing for that.
Who's pretending to be pac exactly? The girl is just at a fan at a concert, singing along a song of an artist she likes. There's no pretending to be pac and there's nothing racist going on in that video. Only ghastly behavior by the crowd and Kendrick himself.
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The Baneposter
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June 14th, 2018, 9:45 am #14

i'm not talking about the girl or this instance i'm talking about the general fixation white people have with using the word
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Rooster wrote:Some say he doesn't understand the concept of stairs, others say he thinks Google is the French word for potato. All we know is he's our tamed speed poster, he's called Aragorn.
Octavious Wrex wrote: but my mom was a psychopath. She is a really cool person
Strangelove wrote:See, I don't mean to stereotype, but when it comes to opinions, you my friend, are god-like.
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Supreme Leader Dante
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June 14th, 2018, 10:57 am #15

It's a nuanced issue and I'm not going to pretend it isn't complicated but I'm also not going to pussy out and leave 'Gorn in the cold with what he's saying when I largely agree with it. So that's that really.

I'm not looking to go to war over it. But I seem to disagree with a lot of you except for Aragorn so. Just leaving my two cents as not to wimp out over the debate.
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Jassassino
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June 14th, 2018, 3:40 pm #16

Webbie wrote:
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Firstly, I love how Aragorn said "n-word." Get a backbone, brother. Ollie will tell you the same thing, and yes I brought up Ollie because he's black (but he's also a reasonable, rational grown up who would likely tell you to do exactly what I just did). It's a fucking word, and none of us are using it to be racist assholes. We're having a discussion about a topic that happens to involve the word nigga. WTF are you worried about?

Jassassino wrote:It being used by the people it was originally used against as a systematic tool of oppression in order to regain their identity makes sense and I think they're entitled to use it.

I love ya Jassassino , but holy fuck, what a load of drivel. How is using the word nigga helping black people regain their identity? A lot of popular (and, more importantly, successful) black people will tell you they don't think blacks should be using the word at all for the very same reason whites shouldn't be using it, as well as it just being a silly fucking word to use on each other in the first place (Morgan Freeman or Samuel L. Jackson was famous for saying this but my memory sucks so I can't remember which; it may have been both). I dunno, confusing the two of them probably makes me racist somehow by a lot of people's standards in today's society. But there's many other black people who say the same thing. The whole idea of it somehow helping people regain their identity is just nonsense. We need to stop pretending that the average black person is being held back so much today. It simply isn't the truth. In some areas and in some specific cases ABSOLUTELY, and no of course it isn't right, but the large majority of black people, at least here in America, are not being held back by their race anymore. People act as if they have it so much harder than white people, as if this whole "white privilege" concept is a real thing for every white person alive today. Bull-motherfucking-shit. Life is hard for EVERYONE. Nobody earns anything worth having without going through a lot. That's just life. I'm a white male in America and I don't have much but I've worked hard to earn everything I have today and that's how it should be for everyone. I didn't get no fucking hand outs at any point in my life.


If MLK were still alive today I have a hard time believing he'd feel like he needed to keep up with all the marches and non-violent protests. I truly believe he'd be disgusted by groups like Black Lives Matter, especially based on the way he felt about types like Stokely Carmichael who thought violence was the way to go at the time. If he's half as cool as he seems he'd probably start telling the average black person to grow the fuck up and stop playing the victim card their whole life if they ever want to have a life worth living. And maybe I'm completely wrong and maybe it's wrong for me to speculate at all, but boy times have changed for the better in a great way and everyone just continues to act as if people are still being so held back by their race.


For sure there's still racism (as if there isn't racism towards white people as well), and for sure it's wrong. But all in all things are pretty damn good for everyone now. Sure life is hard and there's plenty of adversity to deal with, but that's for everyone. You can't have a life without adversity. What's that saying... the same boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg; it's not your circumstances, but what you're made of. A black person can do just as well as a white person. It all depends on what kind of effort you put in and how far you're willing to go to get what you want in life.


But at least you acknowledge that it's ridiculous how the crowd reacted and that's why you're cool asf. Seriously, I know it probably sounds like I'm attacking you with all my cussing, but I'm just in a highly animated mood and like throwing in words. I actually like Aragorn, too. I just have to word things the way I do because that's who I am. But I ain't mad at either of ya. Just tryna figure out why you guys and so many others still have this feeling of "weeeelllllllllll whatever helps them feel equal to everyone else" as if they've still got it so much harder than everyone else. They don't. It's simply not true. Just like the whole wage gape between genders myth, but we probably ought to leave that one alone.


It also annoys me when I mention I have black family who all think the victim attitude is ridiculous, but then people say "okay so you know black people that agree with you, that's cute, means nothing." Actually what it means is they're mature, responsible people who understand hard work is what got them where they are today. They can't stand blacks playing the victim card because it makes hard working adults like themselves look bad, at least that's how they view it. And yes, they are my family. Stepmother, two brothers, sister, 2 nieces and a nephew, who all know I say these things because they see me doing it on Facebook all the time and THEY FUCKING LOVE ME! It's about having the right attitude.




Let's not get this topic locked or anything. This can be a fun discussion. I'm not trying to be a dick at all really. Just tryna keep it light and loose so we don't all get at each other's throats. But I promise you can say whatever you want to me and I won't turn it into a flame war.


And ye I prolly said some silly shit because I'm tryna type this all up on the spot as quickly as possible because I'm working. Also it appears maybe I've been looking for a place to vent some of these thoughts and here I am. So tear me up. I'm welcome to explanations as to why I'm so ignorant and all that. Just fill me in.

I promise I'm being a nice guy, though. I ain't mad at any of ya despite how it may appear. I apologize if I'm the one coming across as the douche canoe now, and yes that's my new favorite nickname for anyone that annoys me.
But yeah, I'd say she was doing more than just drinking alcohol. She was clearly fucked up. Would I have said the word in her situation? Probably not, but I don't blame her for doing it. I also don't think Kendrick was overly dickish to her about it. I just found the whole situation very odd, especially the crowd reaction.
It's really not drivel at all. And for every 'popular, successful' etc. black person you can pull out of a hat to support your point, I can do so too. Maya Angelou, Richard Pryor, a lot of these people believe(/d) in the empowerment of black identity through the use of language, particularly the use of the word to empower themselves. The only reason it's seen as such however, and it is continued to be used by the black community, is thanks to white people (and yeah, a fucking lot more than anyone would like to admit) still use it to refer to and oppress black people on a daily basis. Where I come from in the UK have a lot of white people still use the words 'coon', 'wog' and 'schwoog' to refer to black people who they dislike. That's a fucking gross way of referring to people, and believe it or not, I do think many black individuals using it in a secluded way within singular communities will definitely help people come to terms with the prejudice they've previously faced. I don't give a shit if you don't believe it, but read books like Black Power: The Politics of Liberation and other Stokely Carmichael works, or Revolutionary Suicide, and they all address the same thing with the same ideology.

Also, using MLK as a point to support your argument is drivel in my opinion. He's used by white people as an example because (in his later life) he was an advocate for middle-class white politics and succumbing to white US culture, he's entirely different and actually quite distanced from many viewpoints present and preached within the black power politics we've seen throughout our time. Besides, Stokely Carmichael specifically states many times that violence is NOT the first solution, that again is a White Middle-class way of viewing his political agenda, read his or Huey P. Newton's books and you'll realise they first advocate a mode of strong independence for black individuals as a way of regaining their place in society. Not through violence, but through a distancing of 'white liberal allies' do Carmichael and Newton seek to get black rights on track. That's why the two of them were idolised so much in places like China when they took delegations there, because they seeked a drastic movement away from status quo politics in order to gain their way.

And honestly, when it comes down to it, I actually disagree with many aspects of my own points articulated in this discussion at large, that's because it isn't a simple thing we can easily solve and communicate through this way. Each point we raise has 100 points behind that, and so-on and so-forth, it's just not something I can feasibly talk about and even be certain of my own points raised because there are so many aspects of it coming from either side.
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Yeah I have no bad blood here at all either, nothing has been personal or attacking any one individual. It is just discussion and that's all it will be. I think the fact I articulated that I disagree with even many aspects of my own points will show that it's highly unlikely I'll agree with any of you on your opinions on this, and thus demonstrate it really is nothing personal.


Rest in Peace, OS.
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DUE TO LIMITS ON SIGNATURES, YOU CAN NOW CHECK OUT MY GALLERY HERE: http://imgur.com/a/72tvf
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Webbie
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June 14th, 2018, 9:11 pm #17

Doakes wrote:Rap hasn't appealed to me for almost twenty years, so this is entirely based on the video at hand, and based on some of the comments posted here.

It seems like a two-pronged issue. Because on one hand, it's an incredibly stupid thing to invite someone on stage to sing along if there's lyrics that, sung by anyone besides the rapper in PUBLIC, might upset people. So I don't think the rapper or the audience have any real right to be mad at this kid for that. The rapper is the stage smith, and as such, he has a responsibility to his audience and to the show at hand. Inviting someone who's white on stage to sing along to a song with a lot of derogatory slurs and not saying in advance, "Hey, maybe skip the parts when we get to the n-word, yeah?" To me, that shows incredible negligence. You can't just assume that some concert goer, let alone one with a couple of beers in them is going to have all their wits about them.

On the other hand, I'll be blunt, I think it's kind of asinine how many people are still saying, "Don't be offended by a word if you're gonna use it all the time." Taking a word meant to be derogatory and hateful and making it your own is not the same as having your cake and being offended by it too. Whether hateful or not, words have history and that history has weight. In an ideal world, those words wouldn't carry that weight, but no one has any right, none whatsoever to say what people should or shouldn't be bothered by. No one has any right to tell anyone how they should feel. A person is well within their rights to say as they please, but that doesn't mean those around you have to be okay with the words you choose to say.

Now, I DO get the mixed messages that can send. Dave Chappelle said it best in one of his earliest episodes. He was dropping the n-bomb repeatedly as part as of his show and had a field day with his glorious Black-White Supremacist skit. And sure enough, when people were on the streets after, greeting him and dropping n-bombs left and right, he was very taken back. So he addressed the issue and said he should've been a little more responsible and told his audience the impact and power those words have, why he uses them in the skits he had, and the intent behind them.

"Why is it that when you say the word and claim it for your own, it's okay, but when I do, I'm scrutinized?"

It's case by case, really. Racism has been something I've dealt with since I was a teenager. In college, some of you know I got into a very vicious fight over it that ended with a broken beer bottle getting lodged into my shoulder. Derogatory remarks don't hold the same weight for me anymore because of that incident, and because I'm almost forty years old and I try to live as best I can without carrying as much baggage as I did when I was your guys' age. But not everyone is in the same boat as I am.

I don't think using slurs and derogatory remarks makes someone a bad person. Intent is everything, and carelessness does not equate to racism. But I do think people who use those words liberally are inconsiderate and insensitive, because when you say things publicly, people around you are subjected to it, and not everyone appreciates hearing that kind of language so carelessly from anyone. If I hear a black guy dropping the n-bomb repeatedly, I won't get offended, but I'll still move away just because I don't want to constantly hear words like that, for the same reason I don't want to constantly hear people half my age cursing like sailors because it's fun to swear apparently. *It's cathartic when you drive, granted. :P *

To make a long story short because every single post I ever make is an essay none of you will ever read *not that I blame you,* the rapper was irresponsible for bringing someone on stage to sing along to a song with lyrics neither he nor his audience would be comfortable hearing her sing along to. That's basic common sense and even if common sense would dictate that maybe she SHOULDN'T have used those words, when someone's singing them to a cheering crowd and asking you to sing along, and you're also kind of drunk, it's easy to let your better judgement slip away. But that doesn't mean people don't have any right to be bothered when others liberally use derogatory or hurtful language. In this particular case, either he set her up for that publicity nonsense, or he was just negligent, but that doesn't negate the feelings many may have outside of this incident. Because in this particular incident, it's not as simple as this white girl went on stage and just started singing the n-word to a crowd of her own accord.
I read your entire post, mang. You always have a way of making me feel stupid, but in a good way. I appreciate you taking the time to drop your opinion.


I'm not done, just on a shitty device atm. I shall return.


@ Aragorn, I didn't feel attacked by what you said. I was just giving you a little shit, though I understand tone can be hard to grasp through text.
The Baneposter wrote:webbie the fact that you felt attacked by what I said despite me not singling out a single person in this thread says more about you than it does about me
wrote:If MLK were still alive today I have a hard time believing he'd feel like he needed to keep up with all the marches and non-violent protests. I truly believe he'd be disgusted by groups like Black Lives Matter

Pretending MLK was nothing but a non violent swan is an absolute load of rubbish. He paved the way with non-violence but he also has a long history of radical ideals; it's just convenient to forget all about that side of MLK because it's an easy stick to beat black people with.
MLK wrote: "But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?...It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."
MLK chose a different path but he understood the purpose of violent protest and why it happens. He would not ''condemn'' BLM or put them down; that right wing wet dream is nothing but a load of bullshit.

Click
the rest of your post is just a combination of ''I have a black best friend'' and painfully off the mark readings into the way racism works in America but I can't be fucked honestly
wrote:This whole nigga thing is the most ridiculous thing in the world. If black people get offended by it, they should stop using the word themselves too. You can't allow one group of people to use a certain word and ban another group from using it. Either eveyone uses it, or no one does. It gets even more stupid when black people allow certain Hispanic or Latino people to use it, cause they are a minority too. Gtfo with that bs.

Also, wouldn't it be racist to single out a group of people by banning them from using a word deu to their skin color?
It makes perfect sense because like...context is a thing. You can't just pretend that it's a normal word without an incredible amount of baggage; that is incredibly and willfully ignorant. It's a term that's been used to put down a large group of people for a very long time; only they can decide when it's offensive or it's not - it's not for you or for me to decide when it is or isn't; black people's use of the term is an effort at reclaiming the word and stripping it of it's power. White people pretending they 2pac does nothing for that.

And no that's not how racism works. This is not racist against white people.
You're changing the subject here. I know all about MLK. My point was if he were alive today (I believe) he'd likely be happy for the progress made in terms of the racism in this country rather than feeling the need to continue pushing for more equality.

Also, BLM and types like Stokely Carmichael aren't comparable. Don't be silly. The majority of BLM are a bunch of entitled little bitches playing the victim card and seeking special treatment as opposed to equality. If you disagree I honestly have no interest debating that because it would all be nonsense as far as I'm concerned.
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The Departed
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June 14th, 2018, 9:36 pm #18

Rapper man shouldn't have asked a white girl to sing along to a song that uses slurs he and audience wouldn't like heard from white people.

White peoples shouldn't use slurs or undermine the history of those words when spoken by anyone besides black people.

Lest we forget, racism is not a thing of the past.

Last week, a buncha white boys driving by did the jihad yodel at me when we were at a red light.

If my cousin did that, I'd have a giggle or two. Some strangers not my ethnicity nor do they know me, less amusing.

So even if the intent isn't shitty, these days especially, it's a reminder that there's still plenty of shitty people out there putting others down because has tag mastertrumprace
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r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know :gary:
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Webbie
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June 14th, 2018, 9:45 pm #19

Jassassino wrote:
Webbie wrote:
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Firstly, I love how Aragorn said "n-word." Get a backbone, brother. Ollie will tell you the same thing, and yes I brought up Ollie because he's black (but he's also a reasonable, rational grown up who would likely tell you to do exactly what I just did). It's a fucking word, and none of us are using it to be racist assholes. We're having a discussion about a topic that happens to involve the word nigga. WTF are you worried about?

Jassassino wrote:It being used by the people it was originally used against as a systematic tool of oppression in order to regain their identity makes sense and I think they're entitled to use it.

I love ya Jassassino , but holy fuck, what a load of drivel. How is using the word nigga helping black people regain their identity? A lot of popular (and, more importantly, successful) black people will tell you they don't think blacks should be using the word at all for the very same reason whites shouldn't be using it, as well as it just being a silly fucking word to use on each other in the first place (Morgan Freeman or Samuel L. Jackson was famous for saying this but my memory sucks so I can't remember which; it may have been both). I dunno, confusing the two of them probably makes me racist somehow by a lot of people's standards in today's society. But there's many other black people who say the same thing. The whole idea of it somehow helping people regain their identity is just nonsense. We need to stop pretending that the average black person is being held back so much today. It simply isn't the truth. In some areas and in some specific cases ABSOLUTELY, and no of course it isn't right, but the large majority of black people, at least here in America, are not being held back by their race anymore. People act as if they have it so much harder than white people, as if this whole "white privilege" concept is a real thing for every white person alive today. Bull-motherfucking-shit. Life is hard for EVERYONE. Nobody earns anything worth having without going through a lot. That's just life. I'm a white male in America and I don't have much but I've worked hard to earn everything I have today and that's how it should be for everyone. I didn't get no fucking hand outs at any point in my life.


If MLK were still alive today I have a hard time believing he'd feel like he needed to keep up with all the marches and non-violent protests. I truly believe he'd be disgusted by groups like Black Lives Matter, especially based on the way he felt about types like Stokely Carmichael who thought violence was the way to go at the time. If he's half as cool as he seems he'd probably start telling the average black person to grow the fuck up and stop playing the victim card their whole life if they ever want to have a life worth living. And maybe I'm completely wrong and maybe it's wrong for me to speculate at all, but boy times have changed for the better in a great way and everyone just continues to act as if people are still being so held back by their race.


For sure there's still racism (as if there isn't racism towards white people as well), and for sure it's wrong. But all in all things are pretty damn good for everyone now. Sure life is hard and there's plenty of adversity to deal with, but that's for everyone. You can't have a life without adversity. What's that saying... the same boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg; it's not your circumstances, but what you're made of. A black person can do just as well as a white person. It all depends on what kind of effort you put in and how far you're willing to go to get what you want in life.


But at least you acknowledge that it's ridiculous how the crowd reacted and that's why you're cool asf. Seriously, I know it probably sounds like I'm attacking you with all my cussing, but I'm just in a highly animated mood and like throwing in words. I actually like Aragorn, too. I just have to word things the way I do because that's who I am. But I ain't mad at either of ya. Just tryna figure out why you guys and so many others still have this feeling of "weeeelllllllllll whatever helps them feel equal to everyone else" as if they've still got it so much harder than everyone else. They don't. It's simply not true. Just like the whole wage gape between genders myth, but we probably ought to leave that one alone.


It also annoys me when I mention I have black family who all think the victim attitude is ridiculous, but then people say "okay so you know black people that agree with you, that's cute, means nothing." Actually what it means is they're mature, responsible people who understand hard work is what got them where they are today. They can't stand blacks playing the victim card because it makes hard working adults like themselves look bad, at least that's how they view it. And yes, they are my family. Stepmother, two brothers, sister, 2 nieces and a nephew, who all know I say these things because they see me doing it on Facebook all the time and THEY FUCKING LOVE ME! It's about having the right attitude.




Let's not get this topic locked or anything. This can be a fun discussion. I'm not trying to be a dick at all really. Just tryna keep it light and loose so we don't all get at each other's throats. But I promise you can say whatever you want to me and I won't turn it into a flame war.


And ye I prolly said some silly shit because I'm tryna type this all up on the spot as quickly as possible because I'm working. Also it appears maybe I've been looking for a place to vent some of these thoughts and here I am. So tear me up. I'm welcome to explanations as to why I'm so ignorant and all that. Just fill me in.

I promise I'm being a nice guy, though. I ain't mad at any of ya despite how it may appear. I apologize if I'm the one coming across as the douche canoe now, and yes that's my new favorite nickname for anyone that annoys me.
But yeah, I'd say she was doing more than just drinking alcohol. She was clearly fucked up. Would I have said the word in her situation? Probably not, but I don't blame her for doing it. I also don't think Kendrick was overly dickish to her about it. I just found the whole situation very odd, especially the crowd reaction.
It's really not drivel at all. And for every 'popular, successful' etc. black person you can pull out of a hat to support your point, I can do so too. Maya Angelou, Richard Pryor, a lot of these people believe(/d) in the empowerment of black identity through the use of language, particularly the use of the word to empower themselves. The only reason it's seen as such however, and it is continued to be used by the black community, is thanks to white people (and yeah, a fucking lot more than anyone would like to admit) still use it to refer to and oppress black people on a daily basis. Where I come from in the UK have a lot of white people still use the words 'coon', 'wog' and 'schwoog' to refer to black people who they dislike. That's a fucking gross way of referring to people, and believe it or not, I do think many black individuals using it in a secluded way within singular communities will definitely help people come to terms with the prejudice they've previously faced. I don't give a shit if you don't believe it, but read books like Black Power: The Politics of Liberation and other Stokely Carmichael works, or Revolutionary Suicide, and they all address the same thing with the same ideology.

Also, using MLK as a point to support your argument is drivel in my opinion. He's used by white people as an example because (in his later life) he was an advocate for middle-class white politics and succumbing to white US culture, he's entirely different and actually quite distanced from many viewpoints present and preached within the black power politics we've seen throughout our time. Besides, Stokely Carmichael specifically states many times that violence is NOT the first solution, that again is a White Middle-class way of viewing his political agenda, read his or Huey P. Newton's books and you'll realise they first advocate a mode of strong independence for black individuals as a way of regaining their place in society. Not through violence, but through a distancing of 'white liberal allies' do Carmichael and Newton seek to get black rights on track. That's why the two of them were idolised so much in places like China when they took delegations there, because they seeked a drastic movement away from status quo politics in order to gain their way.

And honestly, when it comes down to it, I actually disagree with many aspects of my own points articulated in this discussion at large, that's because it isn't a simple thing we can easily solve and communicate through this way. Each point we raise has 100 points behind that, and so-on and so-forth, it's just not something I can feasibly talk about and even be certain of my own points raised because there are so many aspects of it coming from either side.
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Yeah I have no bad blood here at all either, nothing has been personal or attacking any one individual. It is just discussion and that's all it will be. I think the fact I articulated that I disagree with even many aspects of my own points will show that it's highly unlikely I'll agree with any of you on your opinions on this, and thus demonstrate it really is nothing personal.
Firstly, fuck yeah no bad blood at all. I think this is going just fine.


Your entire first paragraph you make a great point. Not much to say about it other than yeah, like I mentioned, there's absolutely still a lot of racism out there, but I don't think it's realistic to say that's the majority. Like you, I live in an area where people are racist as fuck, but I'm in a tiny, redneck area with nothing but old white folk so it's not really surprising, just disappointing. But really I think most people, at least in this country, aren't racist like that. I think it's specific to certain areas, and sure there's a lot of them. I'm just repeating myself now but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.


Like I said in response to Aragorn, I probably sounded ignorant in regards to MLK and Stokely Carmichael. I went on about it a little too much. The main point I wanted to make there is that I just think MLK and perhaps even Stokely would be fairly happy with the current situation in this country. Maybe I'm wrong on that, and for sure they're the type of people that would probably still trying to be fix certain areas (like a lot of what has been talked about in the institutional racism topic). For sure there's areas where people have no chance, and then there are people who don't understand that situation, like Bill O'Reilly for instance, who used to say things along the lines of "well all you gotta do is work hard and you'll be fine! Just stop shooting each other!" I have a good friend who is ignorant in the same way. He once said something to me like "I just don't understand why black people would be shooting each other, like what a bunch of idiots." Unfortunately I know him well enough to know it'd be a waste of time to try to explain that when you're brought up in an environment where all you see is violence and drugs and maybe don't even have parents to raise you it's an entirely different thing and it's easy for people like us to not be able to put ourselves in their shoes.


Dunno where I'm going with that. tl;dr - I truly believe MLK would be pretty happy with our progress and disgusted by BLM. Maybe I'm wrong, ignorant, etc., and maybe I just watch to many videos on YouTube of the radically left wingers telling white people they're automatically racist for being white and shouldn't be allowed to speak at all and all that garbage. I know you guys aren't siding with those people yet somehow I always feel like that's who I'm talking to when I have these conversations. That's 100% my bad.



Definitely not a simple, black and white (no pun intended) issue, and I certainly did a lot of generalizing. Hopefully I was able to clear things up a bit and you guys at least understand where I'm coming from. I don't believe you guys view me as a racist and that's good enough for me.



But yeah, the whole Kendrick thing was just hilarious to me. Let's not ignore that a large portion of that crowd and maybe even the majority are white people which makes the whole thing even more ridiculous. I don't know how I turned it into what this is now. Again, probably watching too many videos on YouTube that nobody should ever waste their time watching.




You're all good dudes. No bad blood here. Thanks for keeping it civil.
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krypton_ls
MGSF Philosopher
MGSF Philosopher
Joined: April 17th, 2006, 8:51 am

June 15th, 2018, 5:48 am #20

Doakes wrote:Now, I DO get the mixed messages that can send. Dave Chappelle said it best in one of his earliest episodes. He was dropping the n-bomb repeatedly as part as of his show and had a field day with his glorious Black-White Supremacist skit. And sure enough, when people were on the streets after, greeting him and dropping n-bombs left and right, he was very taken back. So he addressed the issue and said he should've been a little more responsible and told his audience the impact and power those words have, why he uses them in the skits he had, and the intent behind them.
I know it's not this skit - I need to find a link - but this one was recommended to me by YouTube the other day and is quite an oldie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLOw_SzkRQ8

The Patriots - RIP
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