Metromightymouse
Elite Member
Joined: February 19th, 2013, 9:09 am

September 10th, 2018, 6:12 pm #11

Samcraig77 wrote:
Count Metrola wrote:To make it easier for you, here's the link to the page where I started mocking up the frame horns. You can go back a few pages, but this page here has the visual. Good luck!

http://geometroforum.com/topic/8086738/4/
So I've read the post and I must say the work you've done is amazing. If you are still in the alliance area, I'm about 20 min away in Canal Fulton, I'd love to take you to lunch some day just to hit you up for some pointers. Right now I'm at the mercy of a friend of mine to help me get the engine out so my work won't be as quick as yours was. Do you happen to still have the dimensions of everything?
One thing that I found interesting is that you had the same haters I'm getting just for mentioning rebuild. Why are so many people against repairing things? It's not like cars are just use once and throw away. In my case the engine and tranny only have 50k miles on them and I've already built a custom wide body for it. I'm not giving up just because of some rust. Also this car isn't even for me. I've come to grips with the fact that I won't even be able to drive by the time I'm done fixing it. It's my personal therapy for one, keeps my mind occupied, and hopefully will be for my 8 and 10 year old sons when they can drive. Not to sound depressing but odds are I won't live long enough to see them graduate, I'm come to accept that, but I want to leave them with something to remember good times. They have been helping me everyday with this car, just little things but still helping.
The general experience when welding up frame horns is that it is just delaying the inevitable. Also,with the importance of the components that are being welded and the potential for a catastrophic failure causing injury or death to the occupants of the car or other members of the public, it doesn't seem worth it to some members, especially when a road trip can result in a rust free body for a couple of hundred bucks. When you assign a reasonable dollar amount value to your time, the cost to repair the frame horns just doesn't make much sense against a the cost to purchase and transport a Metro from a rust free area. In the end it is your call and we will help as much as we can and appreciate you sharing the adventure with us.
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suzukitom
Elite Member
Joined: February 8th, 2012, 4:17 am

September 10th, 2018, 7:59 pm #12

I agree with MNM that rust repair is difficult and risky when there are rust free alternatives.

I also think that rust repair done by skilled hands, following a thorough inspection of the unrusted portions of the car, can produce a result at least as strong as the factory did. not everyone has the necessary skills to do a lasting, strong repair correctly, and that is why a rusty frame horn leads to many metros ending up in the scrap yard, or used as a donor of parts to put into a rust free shell.

as a future car for your kids, a sturdy rust free body might be a better project starting point.. or you can experiment and learn to do rust repair with a pro welder advice or help, and evaluate the results before investing more time and $ on that particular body shell. i am starting to see a Metro as a collection of about 1000 distinct parts, and the body is just part #1.
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Samcraig77
New Member
Joined: August 9th, 2018, 4:00 am

September 10th, 2018, 8:26 pm #13

I've found, what look to be, rust free frame horns on a vert at the junk yard. Originally I planned on getting them but after a lot of thought I came to the conclusion that if I was removing an engine to install new frame horns I might as well make my own out of something stronger than sheet metal. Plus if I took the ones at the junk yard I'd have 2 engines to pull. At this point it's more of a "what can I physically do" situation. I CAN weld a whole new brace and frame horns on my table sitting in my chair. I CAN'T pull an engine so I'd have to wait for someone else's help. 1 thing I've learned, no matter how close of a friend you have, they aren't in as much of a hurry as you are to get things done. It's just a fact of life and I'm the same way. Your own things come first. So it's much more convenient for me to make my own plus they won't be sheet metal so the should hold up much better in the long run.
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suzukitom
Elite Member
Joined: February 8th, 2012, 4:17 am

September 10th, 2018, 9:05 pm #14

I have a rusty 00 Metro with one rusty frame horn that I won't drive till it's fixed.

I drive an Esteem wagon and in my opinion its chassis design addresses what Suzuki in 1995 thought were weak points in the Metro. unfortunately the bolt on one piece subframe on the Esteem contai ing the lower control arm mounts and sway bar mounts was bolted to stronger frame horns with drain holes, but the subframe itself was inadequately rustproofed leading to failures of the subframe itself. After a big recall Suzuki used the subframe on Aerios also with no problems.

I think a subframe for the metro is a logical option. it might even be based on adding horn tie in extensions to the steel frame brace that Josh is currently making and selling.

(edit: maybe Josh can make a prototype for testing?) :hmm ^o)
Last edited by suzukitom on September 10th, 2018, 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Count Metrola
Member
Joined: April 5th, 2017, 1:04 pm

September 10th, 2018, 10:16 pm #15

Samcraig77 wrote:
Count Metrola wrote:To make it easier for you, here's the link to the page where I started mocking up the frame horns. You can go back a few pages, but this page here has the visual. Good luck!

http://geometroforum.com/topic/8086738/4/
So I've read the post and I must say the work you've done is amazing. If you are still in the alliance area, I'm about 20 min away in Canal Fulton, I'd love to take you to lunch some day just to hit you up for some pointers. Right now I'm at the mercy of a friend of mine to help me get the engine out so my work won't be as quick as yours was. Do you happen to still have the dimensions of everything?
One thing that I found interesting is that you had the same haters I'm getting just for mentioning rebuild. Why are so many people against repairing things? It's not like cars are just use once and throw away. In my case the engine and tranny only have 50k miles on them and I've already built a custom wide body for it. I'm not giving up just because of some rust. Also this car isn't even for me. I've come to grips with the fact that I won't even be able to drive by the time I'm done fixing it. It's my personal therapy for one, keeps my mind occupied, and hopefully will be for my 8 and 10 year old sons when they can drive. Not to sound depressing but odds are I won't live long enough to see them graduate, I'm come to accept that, but I want to leave them with something to remember good times. They have been helping me everyday with this car, just little things but still helping.
Thank you! It isn't my best work but it'll definitely hold up. In regards to others' idea on attaining a rust free body, that option was not available for me. I was lucky enough to even find this one. There have only been four or so for sale since I got little blue. So, since the weld shop instructor liked me and what I did (I did built a whole bunch of other stuff), he gave me the metal necessary to rebuild my car which basically consisted of a bunch of steel plate, the square tubing, and sheet metal.

Also, I'd love to meet you somewhere. The reason I'm on this site is to share my adventure in hope to help somebody and inspire them. The measurements I used were the 18 3/8" from the nose of the control arm stud to the crossmember, 27" center to center on the stud, and one on the back of the control arm that I can't remember but I can get. I also used several x measurements up front and a final x measurement from the front ball joints to the rear control arms which was only 1/8 inch out of square, which is tolerable by unibody standards. Shoot me a PM and we can schedule something!
1994 Geo Metro XFi 2dr hatch 5 speed. Rustiest hunk of awesomeness I've ever seen.
Rust fix now, restomod soon after. Safety first, modifications later!

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