Joined: April 7th, 2009, 10:04 am

October 18th, 2010, 4:26 am #251

It is truly incredible that a debunker could argue that the Red/Grey chips found were just Paint. The chips were found with Microspheres attached so it was in a process of Thermitic reaction end of debate. It is so simple to understand, the Chips are in the dust and found in very similar Ratios in all samples along with matching microspheres (with Microspheres of Molybdenum no less!) and to compare it with all known paints they do not burn the same way, even if in a Vaccuum!
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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

October 20th, 2010, 2:19 pm #252

To accept a belief that the WTC Twin Towers were felled with the aid of thermitic
material and that given the amount of uncertainty that would be expected with such a plan,
overkill amounts of that material were likely employed.

Given that the top-down nature of the WTC Twin Tower collapses and the rapid, very visible disintegration of the briefly remaining core spires, it appears that a large quantity of thermite (nano, super, whatever), was at work rotting out the steel core and providing plausible explanation for the observed pile-driver like crushing collapses.




To establish proof of the voluminous existence of thermite, it would seem necessary to consider what
happened to all the excess thermitic material that was buried in the massive debris piles.

The most logical explanation would be that until the active thermite was consumed, or ran out of steel to react with, it would continue to be active. Trapped and insulated deep inside the debris piles, the heat generated would be enormous, and likely having significant effect well beyond the reaction zone. Since thermite reactions supply their own oxygen, the visible consequence in the debris piles, would be self-sustaining fires and the creation of red-hot steel.

We know for a fact that the fires burned for months and that thermal readings from overhead satellites showed major hotspots under WTC 1, 2 and 7.

Yet, the NIST and others have denied the existence of anything but long lasting debris fires.

Unfortunately for the truth, the major mainstream news have accepted only the official story and
have been unwilling to investigate for themselves. Relying on press releases saves money. Investigative journalism can make powerful people and organizations very unhappy.

Fortunately, some legitimate, albeit small, publications have presented stories which better reveal
the conditions at Ground Zero following 9/11.

Keep in mind that the reports are by lay persons who are not likely to make a distinction between
molten steel, and molten iron (a thermite byproduct).

Just a sampling;

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_dday_ny_sanitation/

D-DAY: NY SANITATION WORKERS' CHALLENGE OF A LIFETIME
by Tom R. Arterburn, April, 2002

“Once the area was cleaned, normal commercial trash collections resumed by the haulers that are licensed and regulated by the Trade Waste Commissioner,” Dawkins says. But for about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal — everything from molten steel beams to human remains — running trucks back and forth between Ground Zero and Fresh Kills landfill, which was reopened to accommodate the debris.

http://gcn.com/articles/2002/09/09/hand ... tasks.aspx

Handheld App Eases Recovery Tasks
by Trudy Walsh, September 9, 2002

"Not only was this laborious for the firefighters, but the working conditions were hellish, said Greg Fuchek, vice president of sales for LinksPoint Inc. of Norwalk, Conn. For six months after Sept. 11, the ground temperature varied between 600 degrees Fahrenheit and 1,500 degrees, sometimes higher.
'In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel,' Fuchek said. The firefighters' handwriting sometimes was misread, introducing errors into the database, Fuchek said."


http://www.jhsph.edu/Publications/Special/Welch.htm

Danger in the Dust
John Hopkins Public Health Magazine
by Rod Graham, Fall 2001

Alison Geyh, PhD, an assistant scientist with the School's Department of Environmental Health Sciences (EHS), heads the team of scientists sent by the School in response to a request by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences for a coordinated study of the disaster's potential health effects to those in the immediate environment.

It is 4 a.m. in New York City as four researchers from the School enter the site of the World Trade Center disaster on foot. Each is lugging from 50 to 90 pounds of air-monitoring equipment onto Ground Zero. In the dark, the tangled pile of wreckage takes on a distinctly hellish cast.
"Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense," reports Alison Geyh, PhD. "In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel."


http://www.neha.org/9-11%20report/index-The.html

Messages in the Dust
THE NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH ASSOCIATION
by Francesca Lyman, September 2003

Ron Burger, a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived in New York to help September 11th but didn’t arrive to the Ground Zero the site until the night of September 12th.

"Ground Zero was a disaster site like no other—with hazards everywhere. Shards of steel lay upon shards of steel, shifting and unstable, uncovering red hot metal beams excavated from deep beneath layers of sub-floors, exposing further dark crevasses."


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n9015802/

Serving on 'sacred ground'
National Guard
by Guy Lounsbury, December 2001

"We arrived here two weeks after the terrorist attack.

Smoke constantly poured from the peaks. One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots. Massive steel girders were sandwiched in with crushed concrete. Someone told us that they weighed 1,000 pounds a foot. The collapse left them all blackened and twisted. They are among the few recognizable items in the rubble. You find scant evidence of the hundreds of offices that were once part of the twin towers. Most the furniture and equipment was pounded into dust."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMZ38mY31cM

Extract from
LESLIE ROBERTSON_AND_STEVEN_JONES_DEBATE_PT3
at 04:29

Leslie Robertson: "The next thing is we talk about the molten metal. I..we have not done any chemical analysis of what was there. We had many engineers on the site of the project [WTC GZ] following their failure.

We and other engineering firms.

And ah, yes there was red-hot, hmm.. metal seen by engineers and, but molten means flowing ah I, never run across anyone who said that they have in fact seen molten metal, or if by the way, if they had seen it, that they had performed some sort of analysis to determine what that metal was."


I could write a whole book on the many references to the molten and red hot metal found at WTC Ground Zero.

MM
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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

November 4th, 2010, 7:00 pm #253





YouTube Links;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23n0Vr_A ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJwE65Y3 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Y4CB2R ... re=related

Please note that the following transcript is for the most part complete, but does exclude unnecessary duplication, as well
as the many occurrences of natural pauses and re-phrasings.

It is a painstaking process so please forgive any errors or omissions.

Physicist Jeff Farrer: "My name is Jeff Farrer, I have a Ph.D in Material Science in Engineering from the University of Minnesota, I have a B.A. in Physics from Brigham Young University. I've worked with solid state reactions, I've worked characterizing materials, semi-conductor materials, thin films...I currently do a lot of work with nano-particles as well as solid state reactions.

The way I got involved in 9/11 research was about in 2005, I had read Steve Jones's paper, his initial paper on why the buildings collapsed that day.

To give you a little background, on September 11th, I was actually in Alberquergue. I had an appointment at Sandia National Lab which is part of Kirtland Air Force Base. On that morning, as I was getting ready, a colleague knocked on the door and said that a plane just flew into one of the Trade Center towers. I thought, that's strange, and continued to get ready for our appointment. A little while later he came back and said that a second plane flew into the Towers and then I thought, this not your ordinary news day, something is going on. So I went out to the lobby of the hotel and people were watching the news. We all watched what happened. Obviously, the base--Sandia is part of Kirtland Air Force Base, ah, so we knew we weren't going to be getting on the base that day and sure enough, the base had 'locked-down' and no civilians were going in. So we got a car and drove back to Salt Lake City. So the remainder of that day is a little hazy for me because I wasn't sitting in front of the TV watching the News and I wasn't aware of Building 7 until I read Steve Jones's paper in 2005, which talks about Building 7, talks about the strange details and evidences surround Building 7. That is what really grabbed my attention and made want to look more into this.

So I actually looked for Steve Jones. I sought him out and we talked for a little bit. I wanted to get a feel for his sincerity and his motivation for doing this so we talked for a little bit. And then I watched one of his talks that he gave in September of 2005 at Brigham Young University. And we talked some more. At that time I was working as an electron microscopist. I was characterizing materials and I thought I might have something to offer, if, he was eventually to come across some evidence, or evidence was sent to him. So I offered what I could do to study that and get some data on any of the evidence that he might collect.

Eventually he was able to get some metal samples that were from of the steel beams from one of the Towers. We studied those. I cut up some of those steel samples and polished them to see what we would find in the steel. Some of the pieces that he acquired at the time had some corrosion. They had obviously gone through some melting and we thought those might be significant. So we were looking--and I was going in that direction, that's sort of my expertise, solid state reactions..and that's not quite solid state necessarily, but that is certainly in the realm of my expertise. So that's the direction that I wanted to go. To look at these materials, study the phases and maybe see what temperatures the steel would have to be to create these phases.

And then around 2006, I believe it was, Steve started receiving dust samples and started looking at these dust samples. So, the study of the metal samples turned up different phases. I did obviously see the steel phase and iron oxide phases. We did find an iron sulphide phase as well as an iron silicate phase. Looking at all the phases I came to the conclusion that in order to create these phases, we would have to reach a minimum of around 1100 C. So that was some preliminary work
that we did with the steel evidence that Steve was able to get from various people. In fact, one of the samples came from Clarkson College.

Some of the steel beams had been sent out to Clarkson College and they were going to build a monument with these and there was a lot of debris that was sent with the beams. Some of that evidence came from that debris as well as coming directly off of the steel columns. That's where these initial samples came from.

Obviously it required polishing these pieces of steel and then putting them in the electron microscope using x-ray analysis to find the chemistry.

I used diffraction to determine the phase, or the structure of the phases along with the chemistry. In that way we were able to determine the phases that were in the steel, or in these pieces of steel that had been corroded, or melted. Whatever the process that they had gone through. That is what we were trying to determine by looking at the phases.

We found that the phases that were there probably would require about 1100 C. That did not entirely wrap up that part of the study but that was pretty significant findings.

The question became; how do you get to those temperatures? Obviously the question of how do you get to 1100 C is significant because you don't get to those temperatures with scattered office fires or even jet fuel fed office fires. You get to maybe half that temperature.

So that question of how do you get to 1100 C? That became fairly important to me and one of the things that made me more motivated to look further into this. I don't know that I could really speculate, I mean there are any number of sources of heat that could create that temperature but certainly not jet fuel burning in open air in an office. I guess what makes these findings significant, is sort of in the manner in which we found them. The morphology of the grains of these phases. You do not get these phases with an oxyacetylene torch or whatever torch you used to cut the steel. You do not get these phases existing together the way that we found them. People might say; they cut the steel, couldn't you create phases with a torch? Yeah, you probably could. I'm not going to deny that. If that ends that investigation, than what has to happen, is you have to be able to take a torch and show that you can create these phases and so far nobody has done that.

We did find small amounts of aluminum in some of the specimens. More significantly probably, was the sulphur content that we found. In fact in one piece, I found a pore in the steel that had pure sulphur embedded in the pore, which I thought was very strange. That is when I really began looking for sulphur and finding it in great abundance in some of these phases.

So then the next question is how do you get the sulphur in these pieces of steel or in the debris? And that question is unanswered.

There are possibilities for sulphur. Any number of possibilities. There is a version of thermite called thermate which has sulphur. And what the sulphur does, is sort of like salt on ice, it creates a eutectic temperature, so it lowers the melting point of steel and in that way the thermate can melt the steel more quickly than regular thermite. The finding of aluminum in these steel samples, or what used to be steel samples, also supports the theory that thermite was used to melt the steel. I would certainly love to get an official sample of the steel that we know came from a large piece of the steel.

This was actually done by Jonathan Barnett. He was contracted by FEMA to do this and he actually took some of the steel members and cut them up. He selected some very significant pieces of steel. He found ones that had oxidation, or sulphidisation of the steel members. Some of them looked like they had been vaporized, certainly melted, and he cut up portions of that steel at the locations where he saw the sulphidisation.

He found similar things. He found iron sulphide in one phase. He found the phases rich in sulphur were attacking the grain boundaries of the steel which is exactly what thermate would do. It would go into the grain boundaries first, attack the steel, and then melt the steel. As it did that, create that eutectic temperature.

His findings were significant in that..he originally started with steel from Building 7 and his question was; Do we find the same things happening in steel from Towers 1 and 2?

And the answer to that was yes. They found very similar things to what they found in the steel of Building 7.

And then the next question was; How much sulphur do you need to create these sulphur phases? He did some preliminary tests and I think those were significant. And those are some tests that if I had the means, if I had the steel, and the time, I would like to do these tests. How much sulphur do you really need to create these sulphide phases or these sulphur-rich phases?

Some people have speculated that the sulphur could have been supplied by the wall board or the gypsum
board that was present in the buildings, and I believe that is calcium sulphate.

So it is a sulphate-rich phase, however in order for that to happen, in order for you to get sulphur out of the wall board you've got to heat up the gypsum board to high enough temperatures to dissociate the calcium from the sulphur. And then you would have free sulphur and then the sulphur could attack the steel and create these sulphide phases which go into the grain boundaries. You have got to get extremely high temperatures to dissociate those two things. And then certainly if you've got those temperatures, you've got the temperature to melt the steel. So this would require high temperatures. Certainly higher temperatures than you would get in normal office fires. This is impossible to achieve in a normal office fire. Even a jet-fuel fed office fire. This is probably one of the reasons they use wall board because it is not going to dissociate in normal office fires and attack steel members that are part of steel-framed structures. Historically this has never been a problem, that wall board dissociates and you have a lot of sulphur in fires attacking steel members. The wall board is actually there to protect the steel.

So Jonathan Barnett's Study which I thought was very well done and quite extensive is all documented by FEMA in their Appendix C in their BPAT Report, that was May of 2002. Unfortunately, it was never used in the NIST Report and it wasn't really used in the explanation for how the buildings fell in the FEMA Report either. So it seems that although the Report was done and it was very well done, the Report never used Barnett's Study to explain; or should I say that the questions that they brought up in that Report which are; Where did the sulphur come from? How much sulphur do you need to create these phases? And how do you get the temperatures required to create the phases? I believe in the Report they put in a minimum temperature of 940 C to create the phases and that is at the eutectic. So those questions were never addressed either by Jonathan Barnett's Study or the FEMA Report itself, or by the NIST Report. These questions were never addressed. I think they are significant because you've got this evidence here. How do you get those temperatures? Where do you get the sulphur? These are things that we should be asking and people should be investigating.

So around in 2006, Steve Jones was working on some other evidence that he had acquired which was dust evidence. One of the things that he was doing was going through that dust with a magnet and finding spheres, micro-spheres, whatever you want to call them, and looking at those spheres and trying to get the composition of those spheres. It is a difficult task at best to try and determine the composition of these spheres because in order to get the internal composition so you have to somehow break these open and fortunately he was able to find some that were actually broken open. At this time Steven was working with a student at Brigham Young University, a physics student, Daniel Farnsworth is his name, and together they were working on the electron microscope and using x-ray analysis to try and determine the chemistry of these micro-spheres. To be honest, when Steve told me it was looking through these dust samples, I thought this was a fool's errand. I thought this is a 'needle in a haystack'. I didn't think they would find anything really significant, to be honest, I really didn't. So I stuck working on these steel samples which I thought were significant, and I still do.

Eventually Steve came to me and said; "we're finding these red/gray chips", and I didn't really think anything of it. They could have been anything.. The significant thing about the red/gray chips was not just the frequency that they were finding them, but also, they were attracted by a magnet which was his method for pulling out these spheres. So he was pulling out the spheres as well as the red/gray chips. And so he came to me and said; "were getting some interesting compositional analysis from the red layer of these red/gray chips, we're actually seeing peaks of aluminum", as well as other things, but the aluminum peak was significant. He would find those aluminum peaks as well as iron peaks and oxygen peaks and various other peaks. But the aluminum, the iron, and the oxygen together were very significant because this is your composition for thermite. So that is when I started to get a little bit more interested and more interested in these red/gray chips. But I didn't really start working on these red/gray chips and Steve and Daniel were continuing to find things about the chips and they would bring that information to me and eventually I said, "okay."

I remember we were sitting in office and he [Dr. Steven Jones] was talking about the red.gray chips and I thought,
okay, if you really want to see if these red/gray chips are significant, what we could do is take one of these chips and put it in a calorimeter and see if they are energetic.

I found a lab that had a calorimeter that we could use, it is a DSC, Differential Scanning Calorimeter and learned quickly how to use the calorimeter, and how to calibrate it and make sure we doing everything properly. I actually had somebody that really uses it a lot there with me as I conducted these experiments. So we put one of the larger chips that we had into the calorimeter and let it run to see what would happen and that was really a turning point for the red/gray chips for me because we got a peak on the calorimeter which shows that these red/gray chips were energetic. They were very exothermic and the width of the peak was also significant, it showed the power that the chips had. The significance of the calorimeter cannot be understated here. The calorimeter can't lie to you. If you get a sharp peak in the calorimeter, that material is energetic. The degree of its energy is determined by the height of the peak and the power at which it goes off is the width of the peak. We were finding that this very small chip had a lot of energy packed into it, more than you would find in everyday materials at the office. And certainly the number of chips they were finding in these random dust samples made the fact that they were present in such quantity, also made them significant. It certainly wasn't an anomaly because we were getting multiple dust samples from multiple individuals who had no connection with each other. Had no connection to Steve or myself. And they are sending us these dust samples and every one of the dust samples was showing red/gray chips. It was striking in their similarity. The paper that we wrote about the red/gray chips, you can actually see, we've taken photographs of these red/gray chips to show these things were so similar, we could not ignore these red/gray chips any longer and that is where the data for the paper really took off.

Some have speculated that the red/gray chips are just paint. I have not seen any studies of paint by those who are speculating this. We did our own study of paint in the DSC and found that the paint will eventually burn up and turn to ash but
it certainly doesn't give you an energetic spike in the DSC. So we actually did some experiments to compare the elemental composition of primer paint from the World Trade Center steel that was taken off one of the Clarkson College beams. But it was taken from one of the beams used in the World Trade Center. The chemical composition did not match that of the red/gray chips so we know that it is not the primer paint that is on the steel. Once the chips are ignited in the DSC we then looked at the residue of those chips in the microscope again and we did find very small spheres that were similar to the micro-spheres that Steve was finding in the dust samples. Smaller on average but still very similar in composition and look to the micro-spheres that Steve was finding."

One of the things about the paper that compiled all this data from the red/gray chips. The first thing we wanted to do was establish that all of the chips were similar. When I say all of the chips. Chips collected from the different dust samples that were collected from different areas in Manhattan, from different individuals who are not associated.

Once we collected different chips from the different samples we then took photo micrographs as well as looking at them in the scanning electron microscope and then compositional analysis of both the red layer and the gray layer. All these things showed that these red/gray chips are the same. The compositional analysis of the red layer was the same. The compositional analysis of the gray layer was the same. Their appearance, cleavage habit and micro structure appeared the same. Then we ran multiple samples through the DSC and found that they behaved almost identical. Once we were able to establish that all these things were the same, that is when we tried with more confidence to find out what these things really were.

So now what we have is from the composition of the red layer, we have an aluminum peak, we have a silicon peak, we have the iron and the oxygen as well as other peaks.

One of the things that we did to insure that we weren't getting surface contamination, we took some of these chips, which are very very small by the way. And under a microscope we were able to cleave these chips or break them in half and then study the fresh or the broken surface so that we weren't getting surface contamination. These things were coming in in bags of dust so who knows what kinds of contamination you get on the surface.

So we were looking at clean edges in order to get the composition and that is where we found the silicon, as well as the aluminum peaks and the iron and oxygen peaks in abundance and throughout all of the red layers in all of these chips.

The gray layer was also interesting. We found that that was mostly iron and oxygen and again, each gray layer was identical in its compositional analysis as well as its appearance. What we found with the DSC, their was actually some significant findings in the residue.

After igniting these chips in the DSC, we found micro-spheres that were very shiny in appearance. Some of them were almost glassy, a little translucent and we found that these micro-spheres had the identical or very similar composition as the spheres that Steve was finding in the dust samples. They were also very similar to spheres found in commercial thermite. Once you ignite commercial thermite you also get micro-spheres and the composition was very very similar. And that lead to the conclusion of the paper which was, we've got some form of thermite in these red/gray chips. And I think it is a very strong conclusion.

There have been some who have argued that these red/gray chips could be paint of some form. We did a study on some epoxy paint. We put that in the DSC. We found that that paint would just burn up and turn to ash. You may get a minor exothermic peak but it is not energetic. It is a very smooth wide peak and it is certainly not an energetic material. As part of the actual paint [WTC] that we ignited in the DSC, it was basically ash. There were no micro-spheres found. We also took paint that came off of the WTC steel and looked at that in the scanning electron microscope and did compositional analysis of that and found that it was not similar to the red layer of the red/gray chips. The red/gray chips are not the primer paint that was used on the WTC steel.

There are a lot of questions that came up during the paper that have been left unanswered, or unanswered, but need to be answered. Just an example; what is the gray layer? What is the purpose of the gray layer? We know it has a lot of iron, we know it has a lot of oxygen. We found that there is a hematite phase but there are other phases present in that gray layer and we don't quite what that gray layer is and how it is adhered to the red layer. Certainly further study needs to be done.

Occasionally we would find an intermediate layer between the red layer and the gray layer which was rich in carbon. Perhaps a polymer type layer. But, again, we need to further with that study to determine what those things are.

There are some characteristics of the red layer that are rather significant. One is that it is not homogeneous. There are different particles or grains within the red layer that we studied. One appeared very bright under a back-scattered electron microscopy which indicates a heavier phase. And we looked into those small particles and they were rhombohedral in shape and very consistent throughout the layer. They were roughly about 100 nanometers in size. They were very consistent in both their size, the shape of them and as well as the composition we could get from the SEM.

Additional studies in the TEM (transmission electron microscope) found these were iron oxide phases. There were other particles present in the red layer. There were some plate-like particles and those again, were consistent throughout the red layer, throughout all of the samples that we found. Those appeared to have higher aluminum and silicon peaks in their compositional analysis and one of the significant things that we find in the red layer is the fact that these particles that we find in the red layer are..the fact that they are consistent. The fact that they are consistent in shape, in composition, and in size, leads me to believe that these are not naturally occurring materials. The red layer is not a naturally occurring material. Sure you have iron oxide everywhere that you have iron you get an iron oxide. But you don't get them in nice little 100 nanometer rhombohedral shaped particles inside of a very small red layer. By the way, just to give you a reference on the size, these particles that are in the red layer are thousands of times smaller than the width of a human hair. So these are very sophisticated particles of very sophisticated materials. Not materials that we would expect to find in the demolition debris of a building. In order to get that kind of consistency with shape and size and to be that small, these really are sophisticated materials. And probably only developed in a laboratory. They maybe processed outside a laboratory but they are developed in a laboratory.

There were several other things that were found that we put into the paper that I think are very significant and the conclusion of the paper really does fit well with the data that we collected. Our conclusions were that the red/gray chips are some form of thermite or nano-thermite or an energetic material which is very similar to thermite. It is a very strong conclusion given the data.

Now others may say; could it be something else? Certainly. It certainly could be something else.

I am not about to say that we've completely ruled out everything. But, those conclusions we made in the paper are very strong given the data.

If there is another possibility, that is something someone can come forward with using the same very stringent scientific method that we used in this paper, and publish that, and I can guarantee they will find that our work is completely reproducible. If you find other red/gray chips, they will look and have the same composition and the same behavior in the calorimeter as the red/gray chips that we found. Now if they come up with different conclusions than we do, that is their prerogative of course, and I would like to see that. I like to see other people looking at these things because that reproduces our results and it also brings us to a discussion which needs to happen.

We need to be talking about this.

There needs to be another investigation of the events of that day and that is why I signed the petition at the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth website."


http://www.ae911truth.org/

Please feel free to quote from this transcript.

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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

November 5th, 2010, 7:31 pm #254





YouTube Link;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZNQq7XB ... r_embedded

Please note that the following transcript is for the most part complete, but does exclude unnecessary duplication, as well
as the many occurrences of natural pauses and re-phrasings.

It is a painstaking process so please forgive any errors or omissions.

Chemical Engineer Mark Basile: "My name is Mark Basile. I am a chemical engineer. I have a BSc in Chemical Engineering from Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

I have worked for about 25 years in industry and the majority of what I do is analytical work and figuring out what materials are composed of, why they are, why they do what they do. It is basically a lot of material science is what I do.

I started looking into 9/11 from the beginning. I had some serious questions based on some of my readings.

An example there would be the R.J. Lee Report, and then the FEMA Report, Appendix C specifically, that got into some metallurgical analysis of some steel beams that were found from the World Trade Center location which were actually analyzed by professors at the school that I went to, WPI.



When I looked into both the R.J. Lee Report and the FEMA Report, Appendix C specifically, I just had a lot of questions so I really started doing a lot more digging into things and ultimately in December of 2007, I attended a conference in Boston on 9/11 where Steven Jones was going to be speaking about his work on the iron-based micro-spheres. I attended the conference and listened to him talk where he also discussed for the first time, his discovery of the red/gray chips that we'll get into a little bit later here. After he spoke, I approached him and I was interested being put into contact with a source for WTC dust independently. Look at the material and either confirm or de-confirm what he had found.

About a month later I received my first sample of WTC dust from Jeanette McKinley who was one of the individuals that was spoken of in his report on the thermitic materials that he put out in March of 2009 I think it was. So anyway, I received a sample of dust in January of 2008 and basically started working with the material. I found iron-based micro-spheres, just as he had done and I also found the red/gray chips that he had spoken of. I then began to do some analytical work on them and I found that their composition was basically exactly what he had described. I was hoping to conduct some experiments with these chips but I have not been able to get access to a differential scanning calorimeter.

So, I basically sat and thought for awhile about what experiments I could run on these chips to try and elucidate some of their properties of being thermitic. I created an apparatus where I could basically control energy input to the chips. Heating them resistively on a stainless steel heater strip to an ignition temperature. Not over-heating them but just bringing them up to the ignition temperature and then analyzing the resultant products. And what I can confirm also is that these chips, the red layer is thermitic, it does produce molten iron and I've seen it with a number of chips that Jeanette McKinley supplied to me and I've also seen it in an independent sample which was also supplied to me from a museum in NYC which as asked to remain anonymous at this point in time. But I have independently seen thermitic activity within two separate independent samples of WTC dust. And I plan to look at more in the next month or so and keep on going.

I guess the other thing that I would like to say is anyone out there who has these types of capabilities, there is no reason why I should be looking at these types of things alone. The more people who can confirm, just like I have done confirming the work of others, the more confidence we all have in the legitimacy of those results. I would really like to stress that we need a lot more people involved in this work than just the few of us who are doing it right now that I know of.

One of the things that I would like to stress about these chips is that they really shouldn't be there. They are not a natural formed agglomeration of aluminum from the aircraft or materials that were in the building and iron oxide that got knocked off. It isn't just a haphazard bringing together of iron oxide and aluminum which is the basic components of thermite. This is a material that is made up of nano-sized particles that are all very uniform, very symmetrical. It is in a silica-based matrix that holds the whole thing together, and when they are ignited, these iron droplets that are formed, basically eat through the silica matrix and form both droplets and actually creates these large relative voids within the residue of the chip that are all coated with iron films inside. If you take these chips and section them, and look at them before you ignite them, there are no iron micro-spheres, there are no iron particles, there are no iron films contained in these chips. It is only after you bring them up to their ignition point and they go through their thermitic reaction, that liquid iron is produced and the energy is released. These chips are not naturally occurring. They are not going to form because some materials fall down in a building and touch each other and get compressed together. That is just not what this material is and again I would say, that anyone who thinks that, should get some, should look at them, should analyze them, and come to their own conclusions after actually doing some work vs. simply guessing that something happened. That is why I did it. I did it because I had questions. I said the only way that I am really going to know is if I get a sample and I do it myself and that is what I did, and I would confirm that this material is thermitic, and it should not be there.

this material is not normal thermite. That is the other thing that really needs to be understood. Anybody can make normal thermite. You can get the ingredients. You can mix them together. You can make them. Any kid can basically do it if they knew the recipe. This material, is composed of, the real key ingredient, that I don't think anybody else could make in any convenient way, is the nano-aluminum. It is a controlled substance. I could go buy it, but the government limits how much I can buy. It is very very difficult to produce in these sizes and to keep from reacting. It is not something that you just get at the local five 'n dime, or you are going to make on your own. It is a very very difficult to make material. And that is the one thing in there that really tells me specifically that this wasn't some guys working in some caves in Afghanistan and/or it wasn't somebody in their basement doing this. This was a massive engineering operation that made these materials. Where they came from? I do not know. I can only speculate and guess. But it wasn't something that someone went off and made on their own. It just wasn't. It wasn't that.

I have called for an investigation. I've stood in front of my town, at a town meeting and told them about the work that I've done and said that we need a new investigation. To anyone that was at the town meeting.

My work with this has brought me to feel that this material is just too big of an unanswered question and it really brings us to demand a new investigation. Something that is impartial. That is based in science. Not avoiding looking at the truth or at anything that an investigation would bring us to. This really demands a new investigation. This is hard evidence that can't be refuted by anybody that goes out and gets them self a sample of dust and looks for this material. It is very very simple. You just need to follow the cookbook recipe that has been put together by others at this point and anyone can replicate the work that has been done and confirm this material is there.

There are patents for building demolition with it. Do a Google search on 'thermite' and 'building demolition'.

Normal thermite; what everyone thinks of when they talk of thermite, is a mixture of aluminum and iron oxide mixed together in what are called stoichiometric proportions. That just means the right number of atoms to conduct the reaction. Basically what you do is, when the aluminum sees the iron oxide and begins to react with it--aluminum is very very reactive and it basically steals the oxygen from the iron oxide and it takes that oxygen and it forms aluminum oxide now and it liberates the iron from the iron oxide and produces iron. So those are basically the two species that get produced along with a huge amount of heat. So much heat that the iron is in a molten state which it melts at around 1,500 C and the aluminum oxide is actually molten also and its melting point is over 2,000 C. This produces a huge amount of heat in a very rapid period of time but basic thermite is just a mixture of aluminum powder, generally, and iron oxide powder. It can be done with other materials to. The real key is the aluminum along with a metallic oxide where the aluminum is more reactive than the other metal that is in the oxide form. But that is basic thermite.

Practical applications of thermite involve things such as equipment de-commissioning in the military, when they have a piece of artillery, or a tank or something they don't want to leave behind to the enemy they throw what are called grenades, thermite grenades down the barrel let's say, but thermite does not explode. It simply reacts, produces large amounts of heat and molten materials and so what it does, is it will actually melt a hole through the steel barrel of the tank or the piece of artillery render it useless for anybody that would capture that. Say in a battle or whatever. So that is one of the typical uses.

The other one is the military drops it onto buildings to basically burn them down, or burn through--it will even burn through reinforced concrete given enough material and enough time. So the military uses it for a number of different applications.

Another one, if you did a search on Google under 'thermite' and 'building demolition', you can find all sorts of wonderful devices which have been fabricated and invented that use thermite for build demolitions.

It is used for a number of different things. The only other real application I can think of is that it is actually used for metal's preparation. It is a way to produce pure iron, or pure copper or various different metals in different thermitic reactions. So it isn't just aluminum and iron oxide. There are other mechanisms but the one that people generally speak of when they talk about thermite is the mixture of aluminum and iron oxide.

An example would be that in 1984 there was a patent issued for thermite cutter charges to be used in building demolitions that could shoot molten iron through the structural steel in milli-seconds.

The FEMA Appendix C information, which is one of the things that really started me questioning things here. A few of the points that I would like to talk about there to fill you guys in as to why I was so interested in this. The FEMA Appendix C that I am referring to here was basically a metallurgical study.

http://wtc.nist.gov/media/AppendixC-fema403_apc.pdf

There were two, or three, I forget exactly, beams that were found in the debris pile that had---they'd been melted. There were sections of them that clearly showed melting. There had sections that were thinned away and there were actually holes through them. And some of the ends were just melted away or even possibly evaporated away.



When I started to look into the FEMA Report, basically what the metallurgists and scientists at WPI found was that the steel was being attacked inter-granularly, preferentially, by a eutectic mixture of iron, iron oxide and iron sulphide. That is basically what thermite can do. Normal thermite will produce, iron, iron oxide in the molten form, but if you add sulphur to it, which is called thermate in the trade business, you just add a bit of sulphur, it also produces iron sulphide.



That again lowers the melting point through forming a eutectic and it basically makes the steel melt at a lower temperature. So instead of having to bring the steel up to 1,500 C, you can slice through it with a material that is at 900 C or 1,000 C. So, when I saw that, in the FEMA Report, that there was actually melted steel--and jet fuel under normal conditions, or really its just the most aberrant of conditions that can produce those types of temperatures. It is just not what should have happened inside the WTC from the fires that I saw, that any steel should have been melted whatsoever. When I saw those pictures and the work that they did, they talked about it and one of the comments that the professors made was that the melting of the steel could have happened either before the buildings fell, or it could have happened after the buildings fell. They were not really sure. They left both conjectures open.

My contention based on finding thermite residue in the dust is that it happened before. It didn't happen after in the fires that ensued in the rubble pile afterwards. It is all the characteristics of the micro-spheres along with what I see in the attack of the beams that were actually found, tell me that thermite was involved in melting those steel beams."

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Please feel free to quote from this transcript.

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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

November 9th, 2010, 11:02 pm #255





Also see:

http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/artic ... 7TOCPJ.pdf

The Open Chemical Physics Journal, 2009, 2, 7-31
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade
Center Catastrophe

Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge,
Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley and Bradley R. Larsen


Interview YouTube Link;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFM_36jv ... r_embedded

Please note that the following transcript is for the most part complete, but does exclude unnecessary duplication, as well
as the many occurrences of natural pauses and re-phrasings.

It is a painstaking process so please forgive any errors or omissions.

Physicist, Dr. Steven Jones: "My name is Steven Jones, a physicist.

I received my Ph.D in physics from Vanderbilt University in 1978 so I have been at this for over 30 years,
studying various subjects. I like to study those things that have an impact on society wherever I can. Such as
fusion energy. That has been my 'bread and butter' for many years. In fact I began that probably in 1979, my research into fusion. Various kinds of fusion, Starting with hot fusion, then muon-catalyzed fusion, metal-catalyzed fusion, and I am still very interested in alternative energy methods. I have published papers in SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, which was a paper about muon-catalyzed fusion. I've published several papers in NATURE, a British publication. I've published in PHYSICAL REVIEW LETTERS and so I have some awareness of the importance of peer review. And I can say in all honesty that my first paper on 9/11 research met with considerable flak and was reviewed, peer-reviewed, very heavily actually. Before publication, it was thoroughly peer-reviewd. One of those peer reviews happened when I spoke at the Utah Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters in April of 2007. I have published over 50 peer-reviewed papers in my career. Now, with regard to 9/11 research, this began for me in the spring of 2005, when I heard a speaker saying that based on her analysis, she said this rather bold statement to a large group of people. She was speaking about something entirely different, but she paused and she said; "now if you think those WTC Towers came down just because they were hit by airplanes, you have some major surprises a head of you." And this huge audience, it must have been about 700 people, burst out into applause. I was one of those who was not applauding because I did not know what she was talking about. But the next day or two, I got on the Internet and plunged into my study of WTC 7 and the anomalous events of 9/11.

Dr. Farrer has covered a number of things. I want to emphasize a few other points. Our study of both the spheres, but particularly the actively thermitic red material we discovered in the dust from 9/11. This is discussed in our paper in the OPEN CHEMICAL PHYSICS JOURNAL published in April of 2009 and I would encourage a careful reading of this paper. We put a lot of work into this peer-reviewed publication. I would like to talk first-of-all about the chain of custody for the samples that we received. I would like to mention that in this paper we studied four separate samples in detail. Four separately connected dust samples. I received samples from several people and Dr. Farrer received samples directly from at least two of these collectors. I think three of the collectors, separately. So it is not like someone could go to these collectors. I have heard this argument that somehow perhaps someone somehow 'seeded' these samples with nano-thermite. Well ya folks, it is very difficult to create this stuff. I do not know how to make this stuff. Kevin Ryan, a chemist, is trying to make this nano-thermite but its not easy. We do have descriptions from the Livermore National Laboratory in particular, of how they fabricated this material. But to fabricate it, is not so easy. First of all, the iron oxide grains are uniform and approximately 100 nano-meters across. That is very tiny. Much smaller than a human hair. The aluminum occurs in plates that are about 40 nano-meters across. I have no idea how to make those. This is high tech material and it is embedded in a carbon-rich matrix.

I have also heard the argument that perhaps the falling buildings just generated this nano-thermite? No. As an experimental physicist, I actually took some dust from buildings that were destroyed by controlled demolition. a bank in Salt Lake City and a hotel in Las Vegas. People collected the dust and sent those in to our laboratory. We looked into the dust and believe it or not, there were no red/gray chips. It relates to the 2nd law of thermodynamics but I won't go into that detailed argument. I will just say, if you imagine these chips were are highly active. It is like a match head. And say you have the ingredients of a match head in a building, sulphur, carbon, whatever else they put in a match head, and then the thing falls. And you find little match head ingredients from a building falling? No. It has to do with under chaotic circumstances, things go downhill, not uphill. It is the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
I have to talk to students about this. Excuse my impatience. The 2nd law of thermodynamics has to do with increasing entropy and disorder, not order. These red/gray materials have very orderly sheets containing aluminum, these platelets and these grains containing the iron oxide. Again, of uniform size, very orderly. Furthermore, if it is from a collapsing building, where does all this carbon come from for the matrix? It is just mind boggling. A colleague of mine asked various nano scientists if they thought a falling building could create this material? Which I thought was great because he got them to consider our study, but 100% of these contacted nano-scientists said "no". There is no way that a falling building can create this sophisticated material that we report in our paper.

Now, back to the chain of custody. So it is not from collapsing buildings. It did come from the dust of the WTC.
As I said, samples were sent separately to Dr. Farrer and myself. These samples all showed the same red/gray material. A separate sample was sent to a scientist, Mark Basile working in New England and he also sees the same active red/gray material. I have to say one thing while I am discussing the efforts by Mark Basile. He was the first one to ignite a red/gra chip and observe the spheres, the tiny iron-rich spheres in the residue after the red/gray chip is ignited. And so I think it is important to give him credit for that observation and we looked in our residues from the red/gray chips and we also found these spheres. I would just like to say that was found independently, and first, by Mark Basile.

Now, the chain of custody. The earliest collected sample came from Frank Delessio. He provided a videotaped testimony about how he collected this dust. Frank Delessio was in Manhattan on the morning of 9/11. He was present when the Towers collapsed. He was over by Brooklyn Bridge, the Manhattan side. And he reported that the dust was falling, it was collecting on the ground and he picked up a sample. He thought this was significant so he save it. He put it in his pocket and went over to a friend of his by the name of Tom Breidenbach and they decided to save this souvenir of the World Trade Center tragedy. Both of their testimonies about this sample are recorded. Frank Delessio collected the sample about ten minutes after the collapse of the 2nd Tower, the North Tower. He saw the Tower fall. He saw the dust being generated. He sept up a handful of dust from the rail of a pedestrian walkway at the end of the Brooklyn Bridge on the Manhattan side. And then this sample was saved and a portion of it was sent to me. I asked all of the collectors as they sent me a portion, to retain a portion of the World Trade Center dust so that when we have this investigation, which we are demanding, that there will samples in the hands of the actual collectors. That the investigators can then obtain, and they will find the red/gray chips in this material, because we have already sampled the other portion. So this sample was collected ten minutes after the collapse of the Tower. Long before any cleanup operations began and therefore, it is impossible for cleanup or steel cutting operations at Ground Zero to have contaminated these samples. They were collected long before these cleanup operations began. Similarly, the 2nd sample comes from Mr. Steven White of New York City. It was collected on the morning of September 12th, the day after and again, this would not be contaminated by cleanup operations which began later. He found a layer of dust about an inch thick on a stack of folded laundry near a window that had been left open in his apartment. Clearly the open window had allowed an amount of dust to enter the room and cover the laundry. He saved some of this dust again and on Feb.2, 2008, he sent a sample to me for analysis. The 3rd sample was collected from an apartment building at 16 Hudson St. by Mr. Jody Intermont in the afternoon about 2 p.m. on the 12th of September. Two small samples of this dust were simultaneously sent to myself and Kevin Ryan in 2008 on Feb.2. Mr. Intermont signed an affidavit accompanying each of these samples, verifying that he had personally collected the sample which was now split and he gives permission to use his name in conjunction with both of these samples. So the chain of custody was direct from the collector to the scientist and a separate sample went to Kevin Ryan. Let me read the signed affidavit from Mr. Intermont. "This dust which came from the collapsed World Trade Center Towers, was collected from my loft at the corner of Reed St. and Hudson St. on September 12, 2001. So that was our 3rd sample.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6fpGIIE ... r_embedded

"the 4th sample was collected by Janette MacKinlay in her 4th floor apartment on Cedar St. at Liberty St. in New York City. This is a very interesting sample because Janette's apartment was just across the street the World trade Center Plaza. As the South Tower (WTC 2) collapsed, she was in her apartment and the force of the collapse and the debris blowing from it across the street broke the windows of her apartment and the dust flowed in. We actually have photographs of the interior of Janette MacKinlay's apartment with this layer of dust everywhere. Now this is a very important sample because it was collected immediately as the tower was falling. I should mention that Janette MacKinlay, like so many others who breathed in this dust, this toxic World Trade Center dust--she has become very very sick. Extremely ill. And many have died from this. And this has been attributed to the toxicity of this dust which according to scientists, had an alkalinity equivalent to that of liquid Drano. There was also asbestos in the dust and other nasty things like mercury. Let me talk a little about the toxicity of the dust having discussed now the chain of custody for each of these samples, which is clean and we would be glad to testify in court about these samples. And the independence of them and the fact that they were not, and really could not, have been seeded. I resent that accusation. As if I knew how to make the stuff yo begin with or would have a proclivity to seed scientific samples. No! We are behaving as scientists and proceeding in a scientific manner as we study this dust.

With regard to the World Trade Center dust sample collected by Janette MacKinlay, she told me that she had a sense that this dust could be usable in an art of hers, a display. She is an artist and as my first report came out with regard to the World Trade Center destruction, and the anomalies, and my questions about the Official Story.... Janette read that report and she contacted me that she had a sample of the dust and would I like to look at it?
Of course I said I would. I actually travelled to California to visit Janette MacKinlay and with other scientists present, I collected a sample of the World Trade Center dust. Subsequently, dust samples from Janette MacKinlay were sent directly to Dr. Farrer and to Kevin Ryan. All of us have seen these red/gray chips in this World Trade Center dust.
So, the chain of custody is clean and the science is very sound, I believe, and has been published, and not refuted, so we feel we are on very solid ground with these studies.

I don't know that I need to repeat what Dr. Farrer has described very adequately and very well. So, I would like to emphasize certain conclusions that we determined from our study of the WTC dust and this red material that Dr. Farrer has discussed so very adequately. I would like to say before proceeding that Dr. Farrer was a key in analyzing this red/gray material. And his expertise with both the scanning electron microscope and the transmission electron microscope proved to be invaluable in the study. Okay, significant conclusions regarding this red/gray material that we found in the dust. The primary elements in the red material are aluminum, iron oxide, as well as silicon and carbon. I would like to say that the silicon first confused me when I saw it in this red material because it is not needed in thermite. In thermite, all you need is a fuel, aluminum and a metal oxide such as iron oxide. So the oxygen goes from the iron oxide to the aluminum with the release of an enormous amount of energy and this also results in the production of molten iron. As you have this molten iron being formed explosively it will form droplets in the air. We do see many iron-rich droplets both in the WTC dust and in the residue, the ash from burning these red/gray chips.

The question about the silicon. Why is that present? I think it was Kevin Ryan who pointed out to me that as nano-thermite is being made, now this is thermite with very tiny constituents of iron oxide and aluminum. Now when nano-thermite is made, silicon is typically involved in the mix. It becomes part of the matrix. When the sol-gel method is used for example, which is described in detail in the literature from the defense laboratories such as Livermore. These guys at the defense laboratories are very excited about nano-thermite because of its applications for explosives and so on. They do say that all the applications they will not go into. I remember at least one of the National Lab papers discussing the fact that nano-thermite can be used for demolition, controlled demolition, so I thought that was interesting. At least for igniting the standard explosives such as CH4.

The iron oxide appears in fasted grains, approximately 100 nano-meters across as Dr. Farrer described. The aluminum appears in thin platelets about 40 nano-meters thick. It is the small size of the particles involved in this material that allow us to characterize it as "nano-thermite". In ordinary thermite, the particle size is much larger and ordinary thermite is an incendiary. Whereas the particle size becomes smaller and smaller, it can become explosive. Super thermite it is sometimes called.

Dr. Farrer found that the iron and oxygen are in a phase that is Fe2 O3. Dr. Farrer conducted studies in the differential scanning calorimeter (DSC), and found that the material ignites, reacts vigorously at a temperature of approximately 430 C, consistent in each sample. This is approximately the temperature at which nano-thermite ignited in a study published by Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Also the narrowness of the heat trace, the DSC trace, indicates that a very rapid reaction has occurred. Both in the study with known nano-thermite and in the study with the red material as found in the WTC dust. We found that the spheroids that are rich in iron produced by the DSC test, that is, by the ignition of the red material in the DSC, these have a signature that is rich in iron but not enough oxygen to make even FeO. So that indicates to us that the iron has been reduced which again is a signature for the thermite reaction. So the formation of the spheres which implies a very high temperature, over 1400 C and the reduction of the iron oxide to an iron-rich phase indicates that a thermitic reaction has occurred and therefore we are able to call this material, an active thermitic material. Both from our DSC studies and from the results from the electron microscopes. Let us not forget that the red material also contains a significant amount of carbon and the formulation of nano-thermite as described by National Laboratory publications also implies the presence of carbon, very typically. The organic is used with nano-thermite in order to produce gas, that is a very high pressure gas that makes the nano-thermite an explosive. So all these results are consistent with the presence of a pyrotechnic or explosive in the WTC dust, in large quantities that really should not be present in an office building in downtown New York City.

We need some kind of investigation that will take the blinders off, and say we are not just going to look at fires. We will consider the possibility of explosives, and we will look for explosive residues, as we have done on our own initiative in the WTC dust. And on the steel that Dr. Farrer mentioned. We need an investigation that will have the power to subpoena these samples collected by Prof. Barnett and then we will look at the residues that you can see in photographs, this swiss cheese steel from the WTC 7 and from the Towers. And determine if this residue has aluminum entrained in it as we expect from the use of thermite. This is the residue on the surface. This grayish residue that you can see. I predict that aluminum will be found entrained in that residue on the surface. Thermite can be made from other combinations but one would expect aluminum as the most readily available fuel for this type of high energy reaction that would result in the sulphidation and even evaporation of steel because the temperatures can be reached by thermite.

In conclusion, I strongly support a thorough and fully-funded investigation of the events and people involved in 9/11. Allow people to come forward and testify of what they have heard about 9/11 from various sources. We need this investigation. Right now there is in effect, a dark cloud hanging over America because of these unanswered questions. It would be better to face this head on and allow a thorough investigation and perform this investigation in such a way as to get at some answers and so we need this investigation and I think that is all I have to say about that today.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Please feel free to quote from this transcript.

Last Edited November 14, 2010 to correct improper name spellings

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Joined: April 7th, 2009, 10:04 am

November 10th, 2010, 7:47 am #256

Here are some high res of the disintegration seen in the spire.
aspire4.jpg
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Joined: April 7th, 2009, 10:04 am

November 10th, 2010, 7:49 am #257

MM here are some more pics for you to use...
aspire4.jpg
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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

November 25th, 2010, 1:58 pm #258

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxiNNZBDKJ8


This video is a 'quick assembly' of mostly NIST FOIA clips. Its focus is on the critical failure of the northeast corner of the South Tower, WTC2.

Initial videos show the fires set off by the aircraft fuel. Later in the video, thermitic activity becomes quite visible as revealed by white smoke, hot orange fire centers, and dripping molten iron as the structural steel is attacked. Once the already damaged support columns are sufficiently eaten away by thermitc activity, the initial toppling collapse of the upper section begins.

NOTE: Not all of the audio is original to the associated video. No intentionally misleading audio was added. Some generic or in context audio was used to cover originally silent video clips.

Explosions that can be heard are original and not faked.

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