Barry Jennings 2007 LCFC UnCut Interview

Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

July 18th, 2008, 11:11 pm #1

[This transcript attempts to accurately convey the Barry Jenning's 2007 LCFC interview while examining how his story compares with those who support the Official Story.

Any translation inaccuracies, are my responsibility.

Pictures have been added to provide some perspective on the content of Barry's statement.

If you wish to view the interview with all Barry's um's, ah's and long pauses included, I suggest you watch the video using the link below.]

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16573

Dylan Avery's preface (see the above link):

"I've been sitting on this interview for a while, but after viewing the latest BBC piece on WTC7, I feel the time has come to release it in its entirety.

After locating Barry in mid 2007, Jason and I visited him and he graciously granted us an interview during a lunch break. He had agreed to grant us an interview under the conditions that we, at no time, associate his interview with his place of employment.

Jason and I were so thrilled with the content of the interview that we decided to release a few bits and pieces of it on both our show and Alex's.

A few months later, as the film was nearing completion, I called Barry again to touch base and see how things were going. It took him a bit to remember who I was, but as soon as he did, he began complaining about phone calls to his place of employment and that he was in danger of losing his job.

He requested to have his interview pulled from Loose Change, and I honored his request.

Fast forward to February, 2008, where I'm doing an interview with the BBC, and I'm informed by their crew that Barry told them the reason he asked for it to be pulled was because of the article on Prisonplanet claiming he was stepping over dead bodies, which he denies saying. I call Barry to attempt to rectify the situation, and he is adamant that he did not use the phrase "we were stepping over people"

Fast forward one more time to two days ago, when the BBC piece finally aired. I now feel an obligation to release his interview, in its entirety, into the public where it belongs for three reasons:

1) To see the difference between the interview he gave us, and the interview he gave the BBC.

2) To establish Barry's timeline in his own words.

3) To preserve his testimony, in his own words, for the historical record.

I have remained true to my word and kept his interview out of the film, however, I can no longer keep it from the public. They deserve to hear Barry's story, out of his own mouth.

As I say in the end of the video, I would appreciate it if Barry could enjoy his privacy and live his life in peace. My intention with releasing this is so his story can be told, not to cause him any further grief or suffering."


00:00:00 [Start of original 9/11 on-the-street 'live' news interview with Barry Jennings and one of his rescuers.]



Barry Jennings 9_11_01:
"Well me and Mr. Hess the Corporation Counsel were on the 23rd floor.
I told him we gotta get out of here.
We started walking down the stairs.
We made it to the 8th floor.
Big explosion!
Blew us back into the 8th floor.
And I turned to Hess and I said, "this is it!
We're dead!
We're not gonna make it outta here!"
I took a fire extinguisher and I bust a window out.
That's when this gentleman here heard my cries for help.
This gentleman right here and he kept saying "stand by, somebody's
coming to get you.."

They couldn't get to us for an hour because they couldn't find us."


EyeWitness News 7:
"You thought that was it?"

Barry Jennings 9_11_01:
"I thought-I thought we were dead.
I thought that was it.
I started praying to Allah.
I said "that's it we're goners, it's over."


EyeWitness News 7: [to Barry's rescuer]
"What was it like for you.
You were inside there as well?"




Rescuer:
"It was pandemonium.
It ..something out of a Bruce Willis DIE HARD movie.
um..he was there and he was crying and there was another gentleman crying for help!
We couldn't get to them.
We tried to get through the ..uh.?
We went through the building. We were lost.
Both staircases.
The backside was completely blown away.

There was no way to access.
We couldn't get to 'em.
And finally uh.
One of the fire department teams found 'em.
But we didn't think they were going to make it."


EyeWitness News 7:
"But certainly you got out.
Many others didn't of course we don't have a number right now of fatalities or injuries but I want to translate a story to you that another man told me.
He was near the building.
He was on the lobby level near the shopping area, near the Promenade.
The "elevator doors" he said to me, "blew open" and when the doors opened, there was a man on fire inside that elevator.
That is the kind of tragedy we are talking about here and where the WTC [audio fades out]"


00:01:52
[start of the 2007 LCFC interview conducted by Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery.]



Barry Jennings mid2007:
"Hi. My name is Barry Jennings.
I'm 52 years old.
I've worked for 33 years at one location.
Basically that's it.
I'm married.
Father of four."


Jason Bermas:
"and that's it.
Why don't you tell people your experiences from the very beginning of the day on September 11, 2001?"

Barry Jennings mid2007:
"Alright.
It was. as I told you guys before, it was very uh-funny.
I was on my way to work.
And..traffic was excellent.
And I received a call that a small cessna had hit the WTC.
And I was asked to go and man the Office of Emergency Management (OEM) at WTC 7 on the 23rd floor.
As I arrived there, there were police..all in the lobby.
They..showed me the way to the elevator.
We got up to the 23rd floor."



OEM EOC


OEM EOC library photo

"Me and Mr. Hess, who I didn't know was Mr. Hess at the time."

(Hess is a Yale and Harvard graduate, a lawyer who has represented the United States in numerous major cases).


"We got to the 23rd floor.
We couldn't get in.
We had to go back down."


[from the 9/11 Commission report
After the South Tower was hit, OEM senior leadership decided to remain in its bunker and continue conducting operations, even though all civilians had been evacuated from 7 WTC. At approximately 0930, a senior OEM official ordered the evacuation of the facility, after a Secret Service agent in 7 WTC advised him that additional commercial planes were not accounted for.]

[from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf
By the time WTC 2 was struck by the second aircraft at 0903,
many WTC 7 occupants had already left the building and others had begun a self-evacuation of the building. . .At approximately 0944, after the report of a third aircraft heading into the city and news that the Pentagon had been attacked, a Deputy OEM Commissioner ordered the complete evacuation of WTC 7.
]

[Assuming Barry is being honest, he was in WTC7 after the 2nd crash but mistaken if he specifically thought he was on the 23rd floor. Barry repeatedly draws attention to the fact that he was out of touch with the outside world and had no idea in advance the surprises that faced him.
Since Barry had no recollection of the WTC2 aircraft crash @0903, he must have been off the lobby floor of WTC7. It would seem unlikely that it was his first trip up to the 23rd floor because he stated quite clearly that he and Mr. Hess had to return to the ground floor because the OEM EOC was locked.

Apparently when they returned to the ground floor to get building security to open up the EOC, nothing noteworthy had occurred since their first arrival minutes before. This lack of drama amongst all the police in the ground floor lobby suggests that it was before 0903, yet the fact that the EOC was deserted when Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess arrived, suggests that the evacuation occurred earlier than the 911 Commission or NIST believe.

The only other conclusion is that the time when they arrived was later than 0930 which nicely cooperates with the 911 Commission and NIST timelines.

NIST did say that before 0903 "many WTC 7 occupants had already left the building". How likely is it that his police and building security escort for his 2nd trip would not mention the 2nd plane or a previous evacuation of the their OEC destination?]

"Then Security and the Police took us to the freight elevators where they took us back up and we did get in.
Upon arriving into the OEM EOC,..we notice that..everybody was gone.
I saw coffee that was on the desk. Still. The smoke was still coming off the coffee.
I saw..I saw er half eaten sandwiches.
And..only me and Mr. Hess was up there.
After I called several individuals, one individual told me that, um
"to leave, and leave right away."
Mr. Hess came running back in.
He said "we're the only ones up here, we gotta get out of here."
He found the stairwell.
So we went to the stairwell and we're going down the stairs.
When we reached the 8th..uh, the 6th floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way.
There was an explosion.
And the landing 'gave way'."


[Extract from NIST WTC7 leaked documents.WTC 7 chapter Pitts.doc
"Additional supporting evidence that large and heavy debris did not reach WTC 7 from the collapse of WTC 2 is that the roofs of WTC 5 and WTC 6, which were in between WTC 2 and WTC 7 did not sustain substantial damage based on review of photographs and videos taken from above these buildings after the collapse of WTC 2, but prior to the collapse of WTC 1. Note that a large section of WTC 4, which was located to the south of WTC 5 and was immediately to the east of WTC 2, was collapsed by debris falling from WTC 2."]

"And we were, I, was left there hanging.
I had to climb back up.
And now I had to walk back up to the 8th floor."



WTC7 NorthEast Face


[from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf
With the collapse of the two towers, a New York City employee and a WTC 7 building staff person became trapped inside of WTC 7. The two had gone to the OEM center on the 23rd floor and found no one there. As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed. At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase. When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers came on briefly, and the staircase filled with smoke and debris. The two men went back to the 8th floor broke out a window and called for help. Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building.

. . . .Con Edison personnel arrived at the scene and consulted with FDNY. They wanted to know if they should cut the power off at the WTC 7 power station. It was decided to leave the power on and not allow Con Edison personnel to enter WTC 7 because it was not safe. The Con Edison personnel also indicated that fuel tanks were located in the lower level of WTC 7. However, they could not determine if the fuel tanks were involved with the fires burning in the building. FDNY personnel reported that they did not see any indication of burning liquid fuels before the building collapsed.
]


"After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark.
It was dark.
And it was very very hot.
VERY hot.
I asked Mr. Hess to test the phones as I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows."



WTC7 NorthEast Corner

"Once I broke out the windows, I could see..outside below me.
I saw er..police cars..on fire..buses on fire.
Uh.
I looked one way.
The building was there. [WTC7]
I looked the other way.
It was gone.
um.
I was trapped in there for several hours.
I was trapped in there when both buildings came down.
um.
The firefighters came.
They came to the window.
And they..
Because I was going to come out on the firehose.
I didn't want to stay any longer
It was too hot.
I was gonna come out on the firehose.
They came--to the window and they said
They started yelling "do not do that..it won't hold you."
And then they ran away.
See, I didn't know what was going on.
That's when one..the first tower fell."



WTC7 NorthEast Corner during collapse of WTC2


WTC7 North Side during collapse of WTC2



"When they started running..the first tower was coming down.
I had no..I had no way of knowing that.
Then I saw them come back.
Now I saw them come back with more concern on their faces."



WTC7 (on the left) prior to collapse of WTC1

"And then they ran away again.
The second tower fell.
So as they turned and ran the second time,
the guy said "don't worry we'll be back for you."
And they did come back.
This time they came back with 10 firefighters.
um.
And they kept asking "where are you? We don't know where you are?"
I said "I'm on the north side of the building."
Because when I was on the stairs I saw "NORTH SIDE".
Ah.
All this time, I'm hearing all types kinds of explosions.
All this time I'm hearing explosions.
And I'm thinking that maybe it's the ah..
Buses around me that were on fire, the cars that were on fire.
I don't see no..you know?..but I'm still hearing these explosions.
When they finally got to us, and they took us down, to what, to what they, they ah..called the lobby.
Because I asked them when we got down there I said "where are we?"
He said "this was the lobby."
And I said "you gotta be kidding me."
Total ruins.
Total ruins-now keep in mind when I came in there, the lobby had nice escalators...
It was a huge lobby and for me to see what I saw was unbelievable.
And the firefighter that took us down kept saying "do not look down!"
And I kept saying "why is why?"
"Do not look down"
And---we were stepping over people..and you know you can feel when your stepping over people.
They took us out..through a hole, that the..I don't know who made this hole in this wall.
That's how they got us out.
They took us out through a hole through the wall to safety.
As they were taking me out, one firefighter had fallen.
I believe he was having a heart attack.
But before that, this big giant police officer came to me.
And he says "you have to run!"
I said "I can't run my knees are swollen."
He said "you'll have to get on your knees and crawl than!"
He said "because we have reports of more explosions."
And that's when I started crawling and I saw this guy fall behind me.
His comrades came to his aid and they dragged him to safety.
um
I was looking for ..for an ambulance for my knees and at that time they told me
we gotta walk 20 blocks..to a um..to refuge.
Ahh..before I got there, EyeWitness News grabbed me and they started interviewing me.
um.
That's basically it."


00:07:47

Dylan Avery: "Now, real quick I would like...if it's possible for you to elaborate on..
Now, you originally said on ABC 7 that you got to the 8th floor and that's when the explosion was and that's what blew you off, and here you said you got down to the 6th floor..."

Barry Jennings: "Well it was..no, the 8th floor we got back into."

Dylan Avery: "Okay."

Barry Jennings: "The 6th floor is what we got down to."

Dylan Avery: "Okay, so you made it all the way down from the 23rd floor all the way to the 6th floor.

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "The 6th floor..right..that's when the explosion happened"

Dylan Avery: "Now, where did that originate from, where did the explosion come from..under you?"

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "Under uh, it was definitely under us..it was definitely under us."

Dylan Avery: "Now did it like lift you up?, is that.."

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "It blew..it blew us back and then I found myself..I thought I was on a stair landing. I wasn't..I found myself hanging on.
So you want me to go into that?"


Dylan Avery: "If you could..garbled..elaborate on that.."

Barry Jennings: "Sure. When I made it to the 6th floor and there was an explosion.
The explosion was beneath me.
Keep in mind now, it's pitch black in there.
All the lights went out.
So when the explosion happened, it blew us back.
I'm thinking I'm standing on a landing..I'm actually holding on to a pole above us.
And I had to climb back up..cuz Hess is yelling "What do we do now?"
I said "there's only one thing we can do and that's go back up."
So that's when we went back up to the 8th floor and I busted out that window."


Jason Bermas: "My other question was going to be. You worked in the Office of Emergency Management since it's inception in '99, could you just tell people what the OEM was and your experiences with it? Like how often you would be there, what the job of the OEM was?"

Barry Jennings: "Okay."

Jason Bermas: "Excellent."

Barry Jennings: "When the Office of Emergency Management did an 'activation', they always, they always included our locale and what we did was..what they did was monitor the emergency.
They actually coordinated the emergency through several agencies.
And that's what we did.
I was there as part of one of my agencies, which I can't name, and um, we would sit there and we would do situation reports.
We would get updates as far as the emergency that was on hand.
And that was simply what we would do.
Every agency that was involved in that emergency was there."


Jason Bermas: "And that was manned 24 hours I've heard?"

Barry Jennings: "Only when there was an emergency activation was that manned 24 hours.
OEM was manned 24 hours without deactivation.
When they opened up the OEC, that was activated for as long as the emergency was going on.
Once the emergency subsided, they would stand down."


Jason Bermas: "My other question was, they had a drill in preparation called TRIPOD.
Do you know anything about TRIPOD that was down at the pier?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes I was part of that."

Dylan Avery: "Oh you were part of TRIPOD. Could you discuss any aspects of TRIPOD?

Barry Jennings: "Well, the only thing I remember with TRIPOD is that we did a drill that
was supposed to be a manmade disaster, a terrorist attack..and it was supposed to be some kind of chemical.
And all they did was drill.
They went through the whole..steps..what you would do here..you'd come here..how you would..you know, they went through the whole thing.
Actually we were just viewing it..we were just part of the viewers."


Jason Bermas: "Media reports..we've heard that it was supposed to take place on the 12th but preparations were before that, in other words throughout the week they had been manning the separate stations. Do you know when it was actually in progress because you said you'd been part of it and seen it, so obviously there was something going on before the 12th?
Like did you observe this on the 10th, the 11th right prior to 9/11?"

Barry Jennings: "No."

Jason Bermas: "This was after?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes. Our participation was after."

Jason Bermas: "Was after 9/11?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Jason Bermas: "um..can you then just ah..give us permission to use it? Say Louder Than Words can use this footage?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes you can use this footage!"

Dylan Avery: "Okay, I would like you to elaborate on a few things?"

Barry Jennings: "Sure."

Dylan Avery: "What time approximately, did you arrive at WTC7?

Barry Jennings: "um."

Dylan Avery: "I'm just trying to establish a timeline..."

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "I received a call shortly after the first plane hit, which everyone
thought was a cessna.
That's what I was told.
A small cessna lost it's way and hit the ..
I got there..uh..I had to be inside on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit.
I was inside when the 2nd plane hit. I was already in the WTC7."


Dylan Avery: "Did you hear that when it happened..the 2nd plane when it hit?"

Barry Jennings: "I couldn't tell you because I was inside and I was like closed off from everything.
Keep in mind, now, OEM, that big center, they had big gigantic TV screens and at that point, none of them were working.
So I didn't know what was going on on the outside."


Dylan Avery: "So the Command Center was deserted when you and Mr. Hess got up there?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Dylan Avery: "Was that normal?"

Barry Jennings: "No."

Dylan Avery: "No?"

Barry Jennings: "No, not at all.
The word we got was they had to take the mayor and evacuate"


Jason Bermas: "Did they say the Mayor was in WTC7 that day?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Dylan Avery: "He was there and then evacuated?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes.
I didn't actually see him.
That's what I was told.
That's why Hess was there.
He was there to meet with Guiliani"


Dylan Avery: "What's your impression of Building 7. In your experience of working there, what kind of vibe did you get from that building. You know that the CIA was there obviously, there
was the Dept. of Defence, the Secret Service..the IRS was there..?"

Barry Jennings: "Well, I'm just confused about one thing and one thing only.
Why WTC7 went down in the first place?
I'm very confused about that.
I know what I heard.
I heard explosions.
The explanation that I got was that it was the fuel oil tank.
I'm an old boiler guy.
If it was a fuel oil tank, it would have been one side of the building.
When I got to that lobby, the lobby was totally destroyed.
It looked like King Kong had came through it and stepped on it.
It was so destroyed, I didn't know where I was.
And it was so destroyed, they had to take me out through a hole in the wall.
A makeshift hole that I believe the fire department made to get me out.
Me and Mr. Hess out."


Jason Bermas: "I do have one more question. Did you ever talk with the 911 Commission, Congressional Report, the FBI, NIST..anybody..?

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Jason Bermas: "Who did you speak with?

Barry Jennings: "um.
They called me down.
I think it was part of the 911 Commission."


Dylan Avery: "Was it the hearings at the [unintelligible] School?

Barry Jennings: "No, no. I can't you where it was because..[confidentiality] but they called
me down there and they asked me the same questions that you guys are asking me and at that point they said "okay, thank you" and they sent me on my way."


Dylan Avery: "And yet you told them pretty much everything you just told us?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Dylan Avery: "You were in the building, you got rocked by an explosion all that and you know they didn't mention Building 7 once in the 911 Commission Report?"

Barry Jennings: "I told them that's where I was."

Dylan Avery: "But you know they didn't mention the building at all?"

Barry Jennings: "I didn't give it too much thought. I thought they were just doing an interim report or an investigation as to what happened.
They got my point of view and I haven't heard anymore from them."


Dylan Avery: "So you don't feel you've gotten a satisfactory explanation for what happened inside that building?"

Barry Jennings: "No. The explanation that I got..a fuel oil tank...no. I heard the explosions and the key thing was, when the police officer came to me, he said "we've got reports of more explosions so you've got to run."

Jason Bermas: "But that's after both towers had fell."

Barry Jennings: "Yes, yes."

Dylan Avery: "Now to your recollection, did the explosion on the 6th floor happen before the first tower collapsed, or the second one, or before both of them?
Because I remember, I remember you said earlier that you were actually trapped when both of them came down."

Barry Jennings: "I'm still in the building when both of them came down."

Dylan Avery: "Your still in the building. Are you trapped on the 6th floor when the buildings came down?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes, yes."

Dylan Avery: "So it's safe to say that that explosion on the 6th floor definitely happened before either tower fell?"

Barry Jennings: "It definitely happened before either tower fell and I'll tell you why.."

[interrupted by Dylan to allow for [helicopter?] noise to pass]

Dylan Avery: "Barry I'm sorry could you just wait for that chopper because this is vital!
Because the whole Official Story, the whole reason that Building 7 collapsed allegedly, was because the North Tower fell onto it and caused damage.
And what people are going to say, is they're going to say "Barry was hit by debris from the North Tower."

Barry Jennings: "No. What happened was - when we made it back to the 8th floor, --- as I told you earlier, both buildings were still standing because I looked -- [he points] Two [pauses] I look one way, look the other way -- now there's nothing there.
When I got to the 6th floor there was an explosion that forced us back to the 8th floor.
Both buildings were still standing.
Keep in mind, I told you the fire department came..and ran.
They came twice.
Why?
Because building tower 1 fell and then tower 2 fell.
And then when they came back, they came back, they came back all concerned like to get me the hell out of there.
And, and they did.
And we got out of there..
I got into the building a little before nine, a little after nine..
I didn't get out of there until like 1 PM."


Dylan Avery: "Is there anything else you'd like to say? Anything else you'd like to clear up?"

Barry Jennings: "I'd like to say that..um..my mind is still there, you know..that day I'll never forget..and the explanations that were given to me were totally unacceptable.
Totally unacceptable.
Because as I said, I was there. I lived it.
I lived through it.
Actually, I thought I was going to die that day.
Because me and Michael Hess did get on our knees and start praying when we saw that there was nobody coming.
There was no hope.
We got on our knees and started praying.
And then there was the firemen that shined the lights and saying "is there anybody in here?"
Those were the sweetest words I ever heard.
"Is there anybody in here?"
And at that time, I told Mike "Mike, you better get under the desk and pray to who you gonna pray to, because I'm gonna pray to who I'm gonna pray to, because it doesn't look like we're
gonna make it.
And that's when the firemen came and saved our lives."


Dylan Avery: "And you got of the building around 1 PM and that's when you pretty much crawled out on your knees and that's when you see [unintelligible]

Barry Jennings: "Yes yes yes."

Dylan Avery: "There's really been no official followup right? Obviously the 911 Commission invited you to come and testify and that was it. I mean you never heard anything back from that?"

Barry Jennings: "No. No. I guess I recall some news reporters and News 12 did come out to my home and interview me as far as what took place but that was it.
That was it.
And it wasn't until some years later that I testified in front of them.
To tell ya, it was very scary.
They looked like very important people that were questioning me about certain things.
Um.
I don't know if they liked most of the answers I gave.
I could care less.
I gave my account of it, the truth and that was it."


Dylan Avery: "When did you first start doubting. Well, did you have your doubts that day as to why? Did you even see Building 7 come down..at all..but you were probably gone by that time?

Barry Jennings: "No. No I was long gone by then."

Dylan Avery: "When did you first hear that it had collapsed?"

Barry Jennings: "To my surprise, I was back in the office um..
Secretaries were cleaning me up.
I was dishevelled.
I even started crying..um..because of the lives that were lost and I was lucky enough to get out of there.
When I got home, I sat down in front of the TV and my wife kept saying "why do you keep watching this?"
I couldn't stop watching it and that's when I found out Building 7 came down, I was so surprised.
And I'm saying to myself..why did that building come down?
And I knew why it came down.
Because of the explosions.
And it was not no fuel oil tanks."


[End of interview]

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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

July 20th, 2008, 10:06 pm #2

The Barry Jenning's timeline as described in his own testimony is in serious conflict with the timeline that NIST has assigned to him.

This is how NIST tells it.

[from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf
With the collapse of the two towers, a New York City employee and a WTC 7 building staff person became trapped inside of WTC 7. The two had gone to the OEM center on the 23rd floor and found no one there. As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed. At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase. When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers came on briefly, and the staircase filled with smoke and debris. The two men went back to the 8th floor broke out a window and called for help. Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building.

NIST claims that Barry Jennings and Michael Hess upon leaving the OEM center on the 23rd floor, went to the elevators in an attempt to make their exit.

Barry Jennings makes no reference to the elevator, stating that Michael Hess came to him in a rush, saying they were alone, had to go, and that Hess found a stairwell which they used to make their exit attempt. Note that previously, they were escorted to the 23rd floor by NYPD and WTC7 Security using a freight elevator.

NIST claims that as they were getting into the elevator, the lights flickered as WTC2 collapsed (0958) and that, the elevator no longer worked, so they took the staircase instead.

Barry Jennings said that when they reached the 6th floor stairwell landing, there was an explosion and the landing gave way.

NIST claims that when Jennings and Hess got to the 6th floor, that WTC1 collapsed (10:28:22) and that as a result, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers came on briefly and that the staircase filled with smoke and debris.

Barry Jennings states that he and Michael Hess returned to the 8th floor. The lights were out on the 8th floor. He broke an 8th floor window on the Northwest side of WTC7.


WTC7 NorthEast Corner

Barry said that he couldn't stand the heat any longer and was going to attempt an escape down a fire hose. Firefighters called to him to stop because it wasn't safe. Shortly thereafter, the firefighters ran from the scene and because of Barry's obstructed view, he didn't immediately know the reason for their retreat.

As WTC2 collapsed, it became obvious why the firefighters had fled with such haste.



Barry states that he observed the firefighters return and then flee the scene a second time, followed by the collapse of WTC1.

Barry Jennings states later in the LCFC uncut interview, that his certainty about witnessing the collapses of both WTC Twin Towers was based on his observations from that 8th floor location.

In response to Dylan Avery's point that people referring to the 6th floor staircase landing collapse were "going to say "Barry was hit by debris from the North Tower", Barry argues that it couldn't have occurred then for these reasons;

"as I told you earlier, both buildings were still standing because I looked one way, looked the other way..now there's nothing there."

[meaning, nothing there, as in he saw no evidence of the towers having collapsed.]

"Keep in mind, I told you the fire department came..and ran.
They came twice.
Why?
Because building tower 1 fell and then tower 2 fell."


NIST, while clearly aware of Barry's recollections up until his return to the 8th floor of WTC7, including his calling out through the broken window, acknowledge nothing further about what happened to Jennings and Hess until they were rescued.

In keeping with their timeline, NIST states that Barry called for help and that the firefighters, who based on NIST's theory, were no longer under the collapse threat of the Twin Towers, immediately set about working their way up the WTC7 stairwell to rescue him and Michael Hess.

Barry Jennings, was at the 8th floor location for a few hours and had a good view of WTC7's surroundings to the north, east and west, before and after his experience of the two collapses.

If, as NIST states, Barry viewed the scene from his position on the WTC7 8th floor, NE face, after the collapses, he could not have observed any collapse-related debris and dust cloud destruction dramatically occurring during the time that he was there.

How can NIST explain this away?

Barry himself said when he got home, he was glued to the WTC TV coverage. He would have then, and in the years since, seen what those collapses looked like on TV and how they enshrouded WTC7 in their debris clouds.

NIST says that Barry could not have witnessed this.

Barry Jennings has no motive for disagreeing with NIST other than standing by the truth as he recalls it.

NIST on the other hand, has a big problem fitting into their theory, a very destructive explosion occurring below the 6th floor of WTC7 prior to the collapses of the WTC Twin Towers.

MM






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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

July 21st, 2008, 9:02 pm #3

For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."


We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!.

MM





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Joined: January 19th, 2008, 8:19 am

July 21st, 2008, 9:16 pm #4

I know you're just dying to joust with someone, so I'll chime in and discuss one point at a time.
wrote:NIST on the other hand, has a big problem fitting into their theory, a very destructive explosion occurring below the 6th floor of WTC7 prior to the collapses of the WTC Twin Towers.
There is video inside WTC7 after the collapse of the first tower, and I don't see any signs of a huge explosion other than some dust and a few broken windows, which most certainly looks more like the result of the tower collapse. We see evidence that no explosion took place other than what Barry has to say. No other person says anything about a huge explosion prior to the first tower collapse, other than Barry. It seems quite likely that NIST is correct, and Barry is wrong, so why is it that NIST should have any inclination to fit an explosion into the scenerio, when everything points to there being no explosion at all?
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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

July 21st, 2008, 10:57 pm #5

Tether wrote:"There is video inside WTC7 after the collapse of the first tower, and I don't see any signs of a huge explosion other than some dust and a few broken windows, which most certainly looks more like the result of the tower collapse."
So you must believe that Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, for some bizarre reason lied about the destroyed 6th floor landing which prevented them from completing their evacuation?

I realize it was Barry's story, but Michael Hess was with him. Hess, a lawyer, has had ample opportunity to set the record straight unless as your opinion would force us to conclude, that he supports pointless lies as well.

Given we don't have a timeline for this rescuer, I guess you consider his statement to be irrelevant?



Rescuer:
"It was pandemonium.
It ..something out of a Bruce Willis DIE HARD movie.
um..he was there and he was crying and there was another gentleman crying for help!
We couldn't get to them.
We tried to get through the ..uh.?
We went through the building. We were lost.
Both staircases.
The backside was completely blown away.

There was no way to access.
We couldn't get to 'em."

Tether wrote:"We see evidence that no explosion took place other than what Barry has to say."
Again, you talk as if Michael Hess, a key witness who shared in Barry's experiences, was not even there.

Unless caught in a deliberate lie, the firsthand experiences of those two men cannot be ignored just because it doesn't fit your chosen view of the Official Story.
Tether wrote:"It seems quite likely that NIST is correct, and Barry is wrong, so why is it that NIST should have any inclination to fit an explosion into the scenerio, when everything points to there being no explosion at all?"
So you have no issue with NIST giving a timeline that makes no attempt to explain it's many contradictions with Barry's testimony and even goes so far as to make the ridiculous claim that it took them on average of 1 minute and 45 seconds to descend from floor to floor during an evacuation?

If they had been evacuating from just below the impact zone of WTC1, at that rate of descent, it would have taken them almost 3 hours!

MM

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Joined: January 19th, 2008, 8:19 am

July 22nd, 2008, 12:13 am #6

Never said Barry lied, only that he was mistaken about the explosion, unless you want to call the second tower pieces slamming into WTC7 an explosion.

I have no idea what Hess has to say about his ordeal, so his account is irrelevent to me at this time.

As far as the rescuer goes, the only relevent words he said from my perspective, is that WTC7 was beaten up pretty bad by the second tower collapse, because the video from after the first collapse doesn't show extreme damage like the rescuer said from your perspective. The video doesn't show Both staircases, with the backside completely blown away.

And believe me ....... The dude that took the video inside and out WTC7 would have honed in on that major damge if that was the case. You know it and I know it.

This is a lost cause and Barry is wrong, while NIST is at least close to being correct.
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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:03 am

July 22nd, 2008, 2:50 am #7

wrote:Never said Barry lied, only that he was mistaken about the explosion, unless you want to call the second tower pieces slamming into WTC7 an explosion.
What side is that broken window on?
wrote:And believe me ....... The dude that took the video inside and out WTC7 would have honed in on that major damge if that was the case. You know it and I know it.
How do you know he didn't hone in on it? How do you know you've seen everything he recorded?
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Joined: January 19th, 2008, 8:19 am

July 22nd, 2008, 5:34 am #8

wrote:What side is that broken window on?
The northeast side. I'm assuming you know that, so whats your point?
wrote:How do you know he didn't hone in on it?
It's a very very reasonable assumption when one considers the path he took while taking that video.
wrote:How do you know you've seen everything he recorded?
I know enough and seen enough from the video, to know it's a very very reasonable assumption that Barry is mistaken about an explosion.

If there was an explosion of the kind Barry is decribing, before the collapse of the towers, you would have heard about it from perhaps a hundred people in and around the area. Windows would have been blown out front back and sides of the building.
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Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

July 22nd, 2008, 2:27 pm #9

Tether wrote:Never said Barry lied, only that he was mistaken about the explosion, unless you want to call the second tower pieces slamming into WTC7 an explosion.
Yes you did call Barry a liar.

He unequivocally states repeatedly that he not only heard the explosion, he experienced the consequences (hanging from
the staircase railing).

He had a lawyer, New York City Corporatation Counsel Michael Hess as a witness who could have easily refuted Barry's claims,
yet he has never done so.

And you say it's not a lie to state; "..he was mistaken about the explosion.."

Please reasonably explain how he could experience what he described and yet be so mistaken?
Tether wrote:I have no idea what Hess has to say about his ordeal, so his account is irrelevant to me at this time.
That is like saying the truth is irrelevant to you until you are forced to face it.

How could Michael Hess's account not be of major importance to corroborating Barry Jenning's testimony?

He was their in the stairwell with Barry when the events occurred.
Tether wrote:As far as the rescuer goes, the only relevent words he said from my perspective, is that WTC7 was beaten up pretty bad by the second tower collapse, because the video from after the first collapse doesn't show extreme damage like the rescuer said from your perspective. The video doesn't show Both staircases, with the backside completely blown away.
The very short video is very very limited in scope and at no time does it record the staircases in the 6th floor location that Barry Jennings is referring to or give any indication that the camera was ever anywhere near those locations.
Tether wrote:This is a lost cause and Barry is wrong, while NIST is at least close to being correct.
You call this "close to being correct"?

NIST states in NISTNCSTAR1-8;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase.
"

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!
.


MM
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Joined: January 19th, 2008, 8:19 am

July 22nd, 2008, 7:17 pm #10

wrote:Yes you did call Barry a liar.
You're beating a dead horse here.
wrote:He unequivocally states repeatedly that he not only heard the explosion, he experienced the consequences (hanging from
the staircase railing).
wrote: Yep thats what he says. Problem here is that he states it happened before the collapse of the towers, and this is very likely where he is mistaken.
wrote:He had a lawyer, New York City Corporatation Counsel Michael Hess as a witness who could have easily refuted Barry's claims,
yet he has never done so.
How do you even know if Hess has any idea what Barry had to say? Do you have some reason to believe that hess has some kind of automatic knowledge about what Barry says?
wrote:Please reasonably explain how he could experience what he described and yet be so mistaken?
Well if Barry hears the second tower collapse into WTC7s facade, and it sounds like an explosion, and it takes out some of the stairwell, and he thinks it's a bomb instead, then he would be mistaken. That would be an honest mistake, and Barry would also not be a liar. He's just stating what he considers to be the truth.
wrote:Tether
wrote:I have no idea what Hess has to say about his ordeal, so his account is irrelevant to me at this time.
That is like saying the truth is irrelevant to you until you are forced to face it.

How could Michael Hess's account not be of major importance to corroborating Barry Jenning's testimony?

He was their in the stairwell with Barry when the events occurred.
What I'm saying here is that I have no intention of hunting down Mr Hess and drilling him with questions, and if noone else does this either, there is nothing to discuss about Hess. Hence Hess is in fact irrelevant to the discussion.
wrote:The very short video is very very limited in scope and at no time does it record the staircases in the 6th floor location that Barry Jennings is referring to or give any indication that the camera was ever anywhere near those locations.
You can interpret that video any way you please. I personally see it as no evidence of a huge bomb blowing the backside of the building completely away. So be it.
wrote: You call this "close to being correct"?

NIST states in NISTNCSTAR1-8;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!.
All you're showing here is that there is a large block of time unaccounted for in the NIST timeline. Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not. :grin:







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