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To Savannah/MOmof4

lorgem
lorgem

November 12th, 2010, 11:29 am #1

You wrote something that struck a deep cord yesterday:

"All the funnest things wedding, babies, graduation from college. The child would live through all the hard and happy times with no support."

My mother gave birth to me (her third child) at the age of 34. She died at 64 from cancer. She missed my graduation from college and professional school, my wedding, and the birth of my DD and the three subsequent painful m/c in 12 months as we tried desparately to give DD a sibling (all with my OE).

Giving birth to children at a "normal age" does not guarantee that you'll live to see and support your children and their accomplishments and help them through hard times.

No one knows what life has in store for us. Please remember this.

lorgem





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Joined: May 15th, 2010, 12:08 pm

November 12th, 2010, 1:16 pm #2

I'm sorry for the loss of your dm. I know so, so many young ppl who have lost a "young" parent. My own df was relatively young when he suffered a catastrophic illness, rendering him incapable of enjoying and interacting with his grandchildren. His own df had passed very young. I have many mom friends who lament the loss of a "young" parent who is not here now to see the grandkids.
Last edited by Kekona on August 18th, 2016, 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 24th, 2004, 6:44 pm

November 12th, 2010, 2:42 pm #3

You wrote something that struck a deep cord yesterday:

"All the funnest things wedding, babies, graduation from college. The child would live through all the hard and happy times with no support."

My mother gave birth to me (her third child) at the age of 34. She died at 64 from cancer. She missed my graduation from college and professional school, my wedding, and the birth of my DD and the three subsequent painful m/c in 12 months as we tried desparately to give DD a sibling (all with my OE).

Giving birth to children at a "normal age" does not guarantee that you'll live to see and support your children and their accomplishments and help them through hard times.

No one knows what life has in store for us. Please remember this.

lorgem




That comment you made struck a cord with me as well... my mother was 28 when she had me (her third child), and when she died of a brain aneurysm at 36, I was 7 years old... and she missed all those fun things in my life.

I am so glad I didn't have your perspective on being an older mother or I would not have my DS today. And I will ditto lorgem ... "Giving birth to children at a "normal age" does not guarantee that you'll live to see and support your children and their accomplishments and help them through hard times. No one knows what life has in store for us. Please remember this"
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Joined: January 19th, 2007, 7:18 pm

November 12th, 2010, 3:28 pm #4

You wrote something that struck a deep cord yesterday:

"All the funnest things wedding, babies, graduation from college. The child would live through all the hard and happy times with no support."

My mother gave birth to me (her third child) at the age of 34. She died at 64 from cancer. She missed my graduation from college and professional school, my wedding, and the birth of my DD and the three subsequent painful m/c in 12 months as we tried desparately to give DD a sibling (all with my OE).

Giving birth to children at a "normal age" does not guarantee that you'll live to see and support your children and their accomplishments and help them through hard times.

No one knows what life has in store for us. Please remember this.

lorgem




I read the thread last night & wondered if there was a way I could contribute this thought, as it is very much in the front of my mind right now. You have voiced it so eloquently, calmly, & kindly that I am adding mine to it.

Very recently I lost someone in my life to an extremely sudden, extremely brief bout with cancer. She didn't even get to say good-bye to her children. It was that sudden & severe. She had her youngest in her early 30s. I will soon lose someone else to cancer, also with elementary age children she bore in her early 30s.

Youthful motherhood does not guarantee you will see your children grow to adulthood or that you will get to be a grandparent to their children. Youthful motherhood in no way guarantees readiness or competency for the job, either.

You voiced some very real concerns & I think there is an age at which every poster, if they knew the person's situation, would say is too old. But drawing an arbitrary line is very difficult. I've met Kacee IRL & I'm a decade younger than she is, but she can run rings around me (I'm 41 now, & have a DE toddler & a DE infant). I could never say she's too old b/c having met her, I don't believe she is too old. Also, her particular circumstances protect her children, should something happen to her.

I also know Kekona from another board. She is incredibly smart, compassionate, warm, & level headed, all things that make a great mom. She doesn't strike me as remotely unfit to be a new mom at this stage in her life.

We need to be very, very careful about negatively judging older mothers. As women doing ivf and women doing DE ivf, we live in an almost identical glass house, regardless of our age. Plenty of people out there would be happy to take away the ability of infertile couples to do ART. Period & across the board, regardless of age. The public in general isn't making big allowances for younger women doing ivf, I don't think.

Unfortunately, the discussion turned ugly, but I think the thing that bothered me most was the comment to the effect that if women are unable to conceive due to age, they weren't meant to be mothers. Open a newspaper or read the internet news. Children, viewed as such gifts to those of us seeking to have them, are sometimes born to monsters. Their fertility is no sign they should be parents. Some women are here b/c their child bearing years were cut short. Others went through menopause naturally, but at different ages. How can we draw a line in the sand based on an arbitrary age? People differ so much.

I hope it's OK to contribute these thoughts. I don't want to make trouble for Kenny or GIMB, but I do believe there is a way to have a reasoned discussion that doesn't turn ugly. These are issues that need to be considered & discussed, but calling people names or saying things in a way that is meant to cause hurt is unnecessary.

(The above is not aimed at any one poster, just to clarify. Just thoughts that have been on my mind since reading the thread, particularly in light of the recent loss in my life.)
Last edited by ariadne2 on November 12th, 2010, 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LizLA
LizLA

November 12th, 2010, 4:39 pm #5

Great post!nt
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Joined: April 14th, 2003, 10:59 pm

November 12th, 2010, 4:55 pm #6

I read the thread last night & wondered if there was a way I could contribute this thought, as it is very much in the front of my mind right now. You have voiced it so eloquently, calmly, & kindly that I am adding mine to it.

Very recently I lost someone in my life to an extremely sudden, extremely brief bout with cancer. She didn't even get to say good-bye to her children. It was that sudden & severe. She had her youngest in her early 30s. I will soon lose someone else to cancer, also with elementary age children she bore in her early 30s.

Youthful motherhood does not guarantee you will see your children grow to adulthood or that you will get to be a grandparent to their children. Youthful motherhood in no way guarantees readiness or competency for the job, either.

You voiced some very real concerns & I think there is an age at which every poster, if they knew the person's situation, would say is too old. But drawing an arbitrary line is very difficult. I've met Kacee IRL & I'm a decade younger than she is, but she can run rings around me (I'm 41 now, & have a DE toddler & a DE infant). I could never say she's too old b/c having met her, I don't believe she is too old. Also, her particular circumstances protect her children, should something happen to her.

I also know Kekona from another board. She is incredibly smart, compassionate, warm, & level headed, all things that make a great mom. She doesn't strike me as remotely unfit to be a new mom at this stage in her life.

We need to be very, very careful about negatively judging older mothers. As women doing ivf and women doing DE ivf, we live in an almost identical glass house, regardless of our age. Plenty of people out there would be happy to take away the ability of infertile couples to do ART. Period & across the board, regardless of age. The public in general isn't making big allowances for younger women doing ivf, I don't think.

Unfortunately, the discussion turned ugly, but I think the thing that bothered me most was the comment to the effect that if women are unable to conceive due to age, they weren't meant to be mothers. Open a newspaper or read the internet news. Children, viewed as such gifts to those of us seeking to have them, are sometimes born to monsters. Their fertility is no sign they should be parents. Some women are here b/c their child bearing years were cut short. Others went through menopause naturally, but at different ages. How can we draw a line in the sand based on an arbitrary age? People differ so much.

I hope it's OK to contribute these thoughts. I don't want to make trouble for Kenny or GIMB, but I do believe there is a way to have a reasoned discussion that doesn't turn ugly. These are issues that need to be considered & discussed, but calling people names or saying things in a way that is meant to cause hurt is unnecessary.

(The above is not aimed at any one poster, just to clarify. Just thoughts that have been on my mind since reading the thread, particularly in light of the recent loss in my life.)
In your normal, compassionate and thoughtful voice. I am so glad that you took the time to write these words.

If I may, I want to repeat a very important part of your post:

We need to be very, very careful about negatively judging older mothers. As women doing ivf and women doing DE ivf, we live in an almost identical glass house, regardless of our age. Plenty of people out there would be happy to take away the ability of infertile couples to do ART. Period & across the board, regardless of age. The public in general isn't making big allowances for younger women doing ivf, I don't think.

I think that so many people do not realize this. As someone who spends a great deal of time in and around legislatures, I can ardently report that this is true of our lawmakers and sadly the media portrayals are not doing us any favors. The last thing we need is to have lawmakers try to draw that line in the sand- but believe me, I tend to think (not altogether cynically, much more realistically- and sadly so) that DE will no longer be an option three to four years from now.

I have "known" Kacee for years- and I believe you that she runs rings around most women half her age! And Andrea- my cycle buddy, who unfortunately and sadly took three more years, tens of thousands more dollars and several more cycles before she finally had success at age 50- and she is a fantastic mom.

So I hope that we can realize that everyone IS different- but at the same time, understand the very real health risks of pregnancy in later life, and take every single possible step to minimize risks. But that goes for everyone as well- I am not just singling out a certain age group!

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Joined: December 9th, 2008, 6:13 pm

November 12th, 2010, 5:21 pm #7

And this is WHY I love this board. The 'real' and regular posters are strong woman, who deserve to be mothers, whether that is from adoption, emryo donation or donor egg. They are loving, kind, compassionate woman who will encourage their children to be good people with empathetic hearts. It's very unfortunate that sometimes someone can hijack our boards every now and again and rain on our community with ignorant comments.

I'm sorry for your loss' my board sisters. Losing your mothers or fathers at younger ages is tough, but it doesn't make you wish you hadn't been born to them does it!?

All my best to the 'real' board members!

ks
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Vianna
Vianna

November 12th, 2010, 5:39 pm #8

That comment you made struck a cord with me as well... my mother was 28 when she had me (her third child), and when she died of a brain aneurysm at 36, I was 7 years old... and she missed all those fun things in my life.

I am so glad I didn't have your perspective on being an older mother or I would not have my DS today. And I will ditto lorgem ... "Giving birth to children at a "normal age" does not guarantee that you'll live to see and support your children and their accomplishments and help them through hard times. No one knows what life has in store for us. Please remember this"
My dad died at 49 years old when I was 23 years old. We don't know what life has in store for us. I chose not to act from fears and to proceed instead on my hopes, and I have the love of my life who I hope with all my heart has a life I can share as fully as any mom of any age can, no matter how long that unknown timeframe lasts in this life.

I hope that if my dad was somehow told before he had me that he would pass away so young, he would still have chosen to have his family including all my wonderful siblings (my brother was 14 when he died, and has a very nurturing nature and became a teacher, which I believe stems from this experience).


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Vianna
Vianna

November 12th, 2010, 5:47 pm #9

I read the thread last night & wondered if there was a way I could contribute this thought, as it is very much in the front of my mind right now. You have voiced it so eloquently, calmly, & kindly that I am adding mine to it.

Very recently I lost someone in my life to an extremely sudden, extremely brief bout with cancer. She didn't even get to say good-bye to her children. It was that sudden & severe. She had her youngest in her early 30s. I will soon lose someone else to cancer, also with elementary age children she bore in her early 30s.

Youthful motherhood does not guarantee you will see your children grow to adulthood or that you will get to be a grandparent to their children. Youthful motherhood in no way guarantees readiness or competency for the job, either.

You voiced some very real concerns & I think there is an age at which every poster, if they knew the person's situation, would say is too old. But drawing an arbitrary line is very difficult. I've met Kacee IRL & I'm a decade younger than she is, but she can run rings around me (I'm 41 now, & have a DE toddler & a DE infant). I could never say she's too old b/c having met her, I don't believe she is too old. Also, her particular circumstances protect her children, should something happen to her.

I also know Kekona from another board. She is incredibly smart, compassionate, warm, & level headed, all things that make a great mom. She doesn't strike me as remotely unfit to be a new mom at this stage in her life.

We need to be very, very careful about negatively judging older mothers. As women doing ivf and women doing DE ivf, we live in an almost identical glass house, regardless of our age. Plenty of people out there would be happy to take away the ability of infertile couples to do ART. Period & across the board, regardless of age. The public in general isn't making big allowances for younger women doing ivf, I don't think.

Unfortunately, the discussion turned ugly, but I think the thing that bothered me most was the comment to the effect that if women are unable to conceive due to age, they weren't meant to be mothers. Open a newspaper or read the internet news. Children, viewed as such gifts to those of us seeking to have them, are sometimes born to monsters. Their fertility is no sign they should be parents. Some women are here b/c their child bearing years were cut short. Others went through menopause naturally, but at different ages. How can we draw a line in the sand based on an arbitrary age? People differ so much.

I hope it's OK to contribute these thoughts. I don't want to make trouble for Kenny or GIMB, but I do believe there is a way to have a reasoned discussion that doesn't turn ugly. These are issues that need to be considered & discussed, but calling people names or saying things in a way that is meant to cause hurt is unnecessary.

(The above is not aimed at any one poster, just to clarify. Just thoughts that have been on my mind since reading the thread, particularly in light of the recent loss in my life.)
Thank you for so eloquently posting what I was thinking, i.e.:

"We need to be very, very careful about negatively judging older mothers. As women doing ivf and women doing DE ivf, we live in an almost identical glass house, regardless of our age. Plenty of people out there would be happy to take away the ability of infertile couples to do ART. Period & across the board, regardless of age. The public in general isn't making big allowances for younger women doing ivf, I don't think."

Some would accuse us all of preventing our children from ever even knowing their genetic mothers! How can we sit in judgment of others when we may reside in such a glass house as Ariadne so eloquently describes it?

Your last sentence, Ariadne, also struck me, as well. The original poster shocked me by bringing in the, "Why not adopt?" question on this issue, which made me think at first this was just a troll, since for so many years on these boards, that attitude and stance taken by so many fertile folks has been one of universal hurt among us.

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Joined: December 10th, 2008, 6:33 pm

November 12th, 2010, 11:13 pm #10

You wrote something that struck a deep cord yesterday:

"All the funnest things wedding, babies, graduation from college. The child would live through all the hard and happy times with no support."

My mother gave birth to me (her third child) at the age of 34. She died at 64 from cancer. She missed my graduation from college and professional school, my wedding, and the birth of my DD and the three subsequent painful m/c in 12 months as we tried desparately to give DD a sibling (all with my OE).

Giving birth to children at a "normal age" does not guarantee that you'll live to see and support your children and their accomplishments and help them through hard times.

No one knows what life has in store for us. Please remember this.

lorgem




who had me at 40, saw me graduate, get married (twice! ha ha! once in my 20's once in my 40's) AND have a baby!
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