Questions about ICSI

Questions about ICSI

Joined: August 17th, 2011, 2:17 pm

March 12th, 2012, 7:11 pm #1

Hello, ladies.

I hope I can get some advice regarding ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection). I'm doing the shared donor program at Shady Grove, and we just found out that for that program ICSI is always done and opting out of it is not an option. We have no problems with male factor infertility.

In the back up documentation to the consents we need to sign, there's some disturbing information about the increased potential for birth defects and chromosomal abnormalities. Amazingly, it's not accompanied by any research results on the benefits of ICSI. (i.e. proof of increased fertilization). I've asked our nurse, and she was not helpful. She is going to have our doctor call us.

Honestly, I can't imagine us pulling the plug on this whole thing over ICSI, but we're irritated they're throwing this at us at the last minute.

In the meantime, I wanted to get any intel from this forum. Did you do ICSI? Is it considered safe? Is it your understanding that it significantly increases the chances for fertilization. What's the consensus?

Many thanks!
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anon
anon

March 12th, 2012, 7:18 pm #2

our wishes..and ended up not having to do it (because DH's sperm did the job).
Many women have used it on this forum..but there is some evidence that they are finding some birth defects and later on learning disabilites from those who did ICSI. you can go tp www.pubmed.com and research it there. There have been some publications regarding the use of ICSI and birth defects.
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anon
anon

March 12th, 2012, 7:22 pm #3

you can ask your clinic if they do not need to use it, can they refrain from using it on the eggs that were given to you? I know for sure, they can start exposing the sperm to the eggs and should they not enter the eggs, they can then do the ICSI..that is what they did for our cycle.
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Joined: September 13th, 2008, 5:13 pm

March 12th, 2012, 8:17 pm #4

Hello, ladies.

I hope I can get some advice regarding ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection). I'm doing the shared donor program at Shady Grove, and we just found out that for that program ICSI is always done and opting out of it is not an option. We have no problems with male factor infertility.

In the back up documentation to the consents we need to sign, there's some disturbing information about the increased potential for birth defects and chromosomal abnormalities. Amazingly, it's not accompanied by any research results on the benefits of ICSI. (i.e. proof of increased fertilization). I've asked our nurse, and she was not helpful. She is going to have our doctor call us.

Honestly, I can't imagine us pulling the plug on this whole thing over ICSI, but we're irritated they're throwing this at us at the last minute.

In the meantime, I wanted to get any intel from this forum. Did you do ICSI? Is it considered safe? Is it your understanding that it significantly increases the chances for fertilization. What's the consensus?

Many thanks!
When my Czech clinic's fert report said that they'd used ICSI -- I used DS and my donor was, what?, 28. Are you doing a split cycle at SG? What Czech clinics and SG split cycles have in common is they're dealing with a lower number of retrieved oocytes per recipient, so fertilization is at a premium. Now, my twins seem to be fine (at least that's what three county child development people just told me, except for a slight speech delay with one), but when I realized the implications of using ICSI, I was a bit worried.

Is PICSI an option? While I won't be having any more cycles, I developed the conviction that if we had used DH's sperm, I would have definitely wanted to use PICSI, but I don't know what clinics offer it.

Maggie (in VA)
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Mrs. M
Mrs. M

March 12th, 2012, 9:30 pm #5

Hello, ladies.

I hope I can get some advice regarding ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection). I'm doing the shared donor program at Shady Grove, and we just found out that for that program ICSI is always done and opting out of it is not an option. We have no problems with male factor infertility.

In the back up documentation to the consents we need to sign, there's some disturbing information about the increased potential for birth defects and chromosomal abnormalities. Amazingly, it's not accompanied by any research results on the benefits of ICSI. (i.e. proof of increased fertilization). I've asked our nurse, and she was not helpful. She is going to have our doctor call us.

Honestly, I can't imagine us pulling the plug on this whole thing over ICSI, but we're irritated they're throwing this at us at the last minute.

In the meantime, I wanted to get any intel from this forum. Did you do ICSI? Is it considered safe? Is it your understanding that it significantly increases the chances for fertilization. What's the consensus?

Many thanks!
He wondered whether higher birth defects with ICSI may be attributed to it's use with male factor issues and the swimmer's used being the impact causing the birth defect rather than the procedure itself. Not sure if there is any research on icsi and birth defects when utilized when no male factor issues. With our first DE cycle we had only 11 out of 19 mature eggs fertilize. My DH's SA was excellent and karotyping normal so we did not do elective icsi. We ultimately ended up with only 3 good embryos. So I'm okay with isci for my shared eggs.
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Joined: August 17th, 2011, 2:17 pm

March 12th, 2012, 10:22 pm #6

our wishes..and ended up not having to do it (because DH's sperm did the job).
Many women have used it on this forum..but there is some evidence that they are finding some birth defects and later on learning disabilites from those who did ICSI. you can go tp www.pubmed.com and research it there. There have been some publications regarding the use of ICSI and birth defects.
I will check out those studies, thanks! I spoke with my doc, and he said that the birth defects those studies are talking about are really severe ones and that they (SG) would definitely know if babies born from their clinic had those problems, and they've ben doing ICSI for 20 years and have not had incidences of those birth defects.

So he is confident that the factors that lead to the birth defects in the studies referenced are due to problems with the sperm that caused the male factor infterility in the first place. i.e., the risks are not similar for healthy sperm.

I did ask him if studies have been done about the effects of ICSI done with healthy sperm, and he said no, but gave the above-mentioned fact that they would know if it had happended, and it has not.

Anyway, thanks for your response!
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Joined: August 17th, 2011, 2:17 pm

March 12th, 2012, 10:26 pm #7

When my Czech clinic's fert report said that they'd used ICSI -- I used DS and my donor was, what?, 28. Are you doing a split cycle at SG? What Czech clinics and SG split cycles have in common is they're dealing with a lower number of retrieved oocytes per recipient, so fertilization is at a premium. Now, my twins seem to be fine (at least that's what three county child development people just told me, except for a slight speech delay with one), but when I realized the implications of using ICSI, I was a bit worried.

Is PICSI an option? While I won't be having any more cycles, I developed the conviction that if we had used DH's sperm, I would have definitely wanted to use PICSI, but I don't know what clinics offer it.

Maggie (in VA)
That's outrageous! (if I'm reading that right.)

Yes, I'm doing shared/split cycle at SG. That makes sense that they'd want to make the most of each egg's opportunity. There was also something in the fine print that they take the cell casings off the eggs when they are retrieved in order to monitor the eggs as they mature. So once the casings are off, they have to do ICSI. I asked doc about this and he said that's true but it's not the reason they insist on ICSI. that they insist on it because it works so well.

What's PICSI?

Thanks!
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Joined: August 17th, 2011, 2:17 pm

March 12th, 2012, 10:30 pm #8

He wondered whether higher birth defects with ICSI may be attributed to it's use with male factor issues and the swimmer's used being the impact causing the birth defect rather than the procedure itself. Not sure if there is any research on icsi and birth defects when utilized when no male factor issues. With our first DE cycle we had only 11 out of 19 mature eggs fertilize. My DH's SA was excellent and karotyping normal so we did not do elective icsi. We ultimately ended up with only 3 good embryos. So I'm okay with isci for my shared eggs.
He said they would know if there were incidences of these birth defects on "their" babies. He said it's not a case of learning disabilities or autism, but really serious, horrible defects that would be noticable right at birth. so the fact that they haven't seen these confirm their opinion/confidence that ICSI is not reisky with healthy sperm. (although no studies have been done prove this)

Thanks, Mrs. M!
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Joined: August 6th, 2011, 6:43 am

March 13th, 2012, 5:15 am #9

Hello, ladies.

I hope I can get some advice regarding ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection). I'm doing the shared donor program at Shady Grove, and we just found out that for that program ICSI is always done and opting out of it is not an option. We have no problems with male factor infertility.

In the back up documentation to the consents we need to sign, there's some disturbing information about the increased potential for birth defects and chromosomal abnormalities. Amazingly, it's not accompanied by any research results on the benefits of ICSI. (i.e. proof of increased fertilization). I've asked our nurse, and she was not helpful. She is going to have our doctor call us.

Honestly, I can't imagine us pulling the plug on this whole thing over ICSI, but we're irritated they're throwing this at us at the last minute.

In the meantime, I wanted to get any intel from this forum. Did you do ICSI? Is it considered safe? Is it your understanding that it significantly increases the chances for fertilization. What's the consensus?

Many thanks!
DH does not have male factor. My RE was very clear with us that ISCI is to be used for male factor only and will not make a bad egg a good egg. We did not use it for our two OE cycles or DE. We did sign an authorization allowing the clinic to use ISCI if they felt it was necessary. My RE did not mention anything about the possibility of birth defects when using ISCI, he just said we should not do it and it would not be helpful to us and it would be a waste of our money.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

March 13th, 2012, 2:50 pm #10

When my Czech clinic's fert report said that they'd used ICSI -- I used DS and my donor was, what?, 28. Are you doing a split cycle at SG? What Czech clinics and SG split cycles have in common is they're dealing with a lower number of retrieved oocytes per recipient, so fertilization is at a premium. Now, my twins seem to be fine (at least that's what three county child development people just told me, except for a slight speech delay with one), but when I realized the implications of using ICSI, I was a bit worried.

Is PICSI an option? While I won't be having any more cycles, I developed the conviction that if we had used DH's sperm, I would have definitely wanted to use PICSI, but I don't know what clinics offer it.

Maggie (in VA)
with fresh there is a option, but frozen sperm gets ICSI'd

As far as PICSI, that is just ICSI where they sort the sperm first using a special patented dish (supposedly the dish has dot areas of a chemical that attract better sperm, to describe it roughly). PICSI is not used much.
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