Joined: January 16th, 2011, 11:41 pm

January 30th, 2014, 4:10 pm #51

I don't think its bad to not want to pursue IVF anymore, and I definitely don't think it means that someone is unworthy of a having a child.

I may have to give up too based on finances. Also, I may be forced to give up in a few years because most clinics don't cycle women over age 50.

Although I don't think immunity issues should be overlooked, not ALL IVF failure is caused by immunity issues. Sometimes it is a bad clinic, with a not-so-great lab, that causes repeat failures.

I have been locked into a deal with an overseas clinic (3 fresh, 3 frozen) for a certain amount of money, and sadly I've wasted almost 3 years doing cycles with them. They've never even done a blood test on me, for anything. They do not post their success rate or statistics anywhere. We went to this clinic because it was cheaper than cycling in the USA.
I also blamed my last two failures on a crappy lab but then essentially the same thing happened at a really good clinic with a good lab.. We did have a high quality embryo but it implanted "even less" than the other embryo of lower quality. So it is just an abnormal embryo that looked ok, is it the egg or the sperm or it is my body rejecting it? I can't take all the variables after all this, you know?
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Joined: September 13th, 2008, 5:13 pm

January 30th, 2014, 4:20 pm #52

To admit that I just don't want to pursue this? I know that it may very well mean I end up CFNBC. I totally believe in RI but just don't want to. Is that awful? We don't have bc/bs and there's just no more money to give to this. I've been unable to find a job for a long time and lost a six figure salary. I know some would give their very last dollar to this but I can't. Maybe that makes me unworthy of getting a child but it is what it is. I think I've gone as far as I'm willing to go in the circles of hell...
I absolutely don't blame you or anyone who doesn't want to compromise their retirement, etc., to have kids. It's hard to read on the pink board some of the families who have kids, but are struggling because so much of their assets went into having them. I'll tell you a secret: I really wish I could have worked through my grief at my childlessness and not just moved heaven and earth to have kids, even though I adore my children. Why? Because there's almost nothing in life that can't be taken away from you, including your children. I die a thousand deaths every time I read about a child succumbing to a pediatric cancer or falling through ice on a pond or being shot by a deranged killer or being hit by a car or taking shelter under a tree in a lightning storm or . . . you get the idea. The bottom line is, you have to figure out a way to be OK, with or without kids (and, for that matter, with or without your money, your legs, a trip to Rome, whatever). Anything we believe we have to have to be happy in this lifetime is the key to our unhappiness.

But, I'm wondering whether you need to take a break to find employment so you feel more secure in pursuing ttc. The job market is still very tough now, especially for the long-term unemployed, and especially for the long-term unemployed who were high-dollar professionals. Especially if you can re-enter the workforce at a similar salary, the money you might spend for immune testing may feel less daunting. You will also be in a better position financially and emotionally if you are employed, resume ttc, have a child, and return to the workforce than if you have a child, spend a lot of time out of the workforce, and then have to find a job.

I am wishing you peace and wholeness as you decide how you wish to go forward.

Take care,

Maggie (in VA)


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Dee
Dee

January 30th, 2014, 5:13 pm #53

I also blamed my last two failures on a crappy lab but then essentially the same thing happened at a really good clinic with a good lab.. We did have a high quality embryo but it implanted "even less" than the other embryo of lower quality. So it is just an abnormal embryo that looked ok, is it the egg or the sperm or it is my body rejecting it? I can't take all the variables after all this, you know?
I don't know. I recently read, in a non-fertility related science article, that human embryos have the lowest implantation success rate of any species. However, I also find it interesting that embryos can implant in a fallopian tube, (which is not an optimal environment at all), and start growing.


It could be immunology issues, or could be bad luck. The national success rate for DE IVF is currently only around 50%. That means close to half of all cycles fail. Its even less in Europe. Sure, it could be immunology problem or could just be bad luck. Were your embryos PGD'd? Just curious. Mine weren't.
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Joined: January 16th, 2011, 11:41 pm

January 30th, 2014, 5:21 pm #54

I absolutely don't blame you or anyone who doesn't want to compromise their retirement, etc., to have kids. It's hard to read on the pink board some of the families who have kids, but are struggling because so much of their assets went into having them. I'll tell you a secret: I really wish I could have worked through my grief at my childlessness and not just moved heaven and earth to have kids, even though I adore my children. Why? Because there's almost nothing in life that can't be taken away from you, including your children. I die a thousand deaths every time I read about a child succumbing to a pediatric cancer or falling through ice on a pond or being shot by a deranged killer or being hit by a car or taking shelter under a tree in a lightning storm or . . . you get the idea. The bottom line is, you have to figure out a way to be OK, with or without kids (and, for that matter, with or without your money, your legs, a trip to Rome, whatever). Anything we believe we have to have to be happy in this lifetime is the key to our unhappiness.

But, I'm wondering whether you need to take a break to find employment so you feel more secure in pursuing ttc. The job market is still very tough now, especially for the long-term unemployed, and especially for the long-term unemployed who were high-dollar professionals. Especially if you can re-enter the workforce at a similar salary, the money you might spend for immune testing may feel less daunting. You will also be in a better position financially and emotionally if you are employed, resume ttc, have a child, and return to the workforce than if you have a child, spend a lot of time out of the workforce, and then have to find a job.

I am wishing you peace and wholeness as you decide how you wish to go forward.

Take care,

Maggie (in VA)

I agree with you whole-heartedly with all that you said. If I can't have a child, I will eventually be "ok". I've spent some time over the past year when we stopped treatment with other on-line CFNBC ladies and can see that life changed for the better the further they got from stopping treatment..It was rough initially but then they started finding joy elsewhere..For me, I can't go back and forth. I want the door locked before I move forward with a CF life. We are locked into guarantee program that has a time limit on it so taking time off just isn't an option. While I am "only" 40, DH is 46 so for us, we need to wrap this up. DH was the child of older parents and has an opinion on older parents that I have to respect because he lived it. DH has a good job so we aren't "poor" . Basically I'm dual-tracking everything and hoping something will stick. I do lurk on the other board and I can see how very difficult it has become for some of the women. I don't want that to be us and won't let it get that far. I truly appreciate your "secret" because I've always gotten the general tone of this board to be "you do everything you can to have a baby" and I do have my limits which makes me feel "unworthy" when I won't do them. I have an appt next week with a new therapist who specializes in IF and is on the list for Resolve. I hope she can show me some tools to get back to "living" while continuing to go through treatment.
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Joined: January 16th, 2011, 11:41 pm

January 30th, 2014, 5:23 pm #55

I don't know. I recently read, in a non-fertility related science article, that human embryos have the lowest implantation success rate of any species. However, I also find it interesting that embryos can implant in a fallopian tube, (which is not an optimal environment at all), and start growing.


It could be immunology issues, or could be bad luck. The national success rate for DE IVF is currently only around 50%. That means close to half of all cycles fail. Its even less in Europe. Sure, it could be immunology problem or could just be bad luck. Were your embryos PGD'd? Just curious. Mine weren't.
No to PGD. The embryos were just bad at the last place. With the RBA guarantee program you can't do PGD so it's just not an option. That would be the only way to get more of an answer about immune vs abnormal...
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Dee
Dee

January 30th, 2014, 6:46 pm #56

Sometimes it feels like trying to put together pieces of a puzzle.
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Joined: September 13th, 2008, 5:13 pm

January 30th, 2014, 7:07 pm #57

I agree with you whole-heartedly with all that you said. If I can't have a child, I will eventually be "ok". I've spent some time over the past year when we stopped treatment with other on-line CFNBC ladies and can see that life changed for the better the further they got from stopping treatment..It was rough initially but then they started finding joy elsewhere..For me, I can't go back and forth. I want the door locked before I move forward with a CF life. We are locked into guarantee program that has a time limit on it so taking time off just isn't an option. While I am "only" 40, DH is 46 so for us, we need to wrap this up. DH was the child of older parents and has an opinion on older parents that I have to respect because he lived it. DH has a good job so we aren't "poor" . Basically I'm dual-tracking everything and hoping something will stick. I do lurk on the other board and I can see how very difficult it has become for some of the women. I don't want that to be us and won't let it get that far. I truly appreciate your "secret" because I've always gotten the general tone of this board to be "you do everything you can to have a baby" and I do have my limits which makes me feel "unworthy" when I won't do them. I have an appt next week with a new therapist who specializes in IF and is on the list for Resolve. I hope she can show me some tools to get back to "living" while continuing to go through treatment.
Forgot you were in the guarantee program -- sorry. I just wish I didn't have the feeling that your DH isn't as concerned with being fair to you as you are with being fair to him (please, I don't mean to offend here). He also nixed donor sperm, right? And, I admit, your comment about his being the child of older parents sort of pushes some buttons.

When the subject of older parenthood comes up in online forums, some adult children of older parents who had bad experiences will almost always chime in, vociferously, and the sense I usually get is that they feel their negative experience is more relevant than that of people like me and my younger sister who had positive or, at least, neutral experiences as the young children of older parents. And a lot of the time they seem to be blaming their parents' age for problems that were ultimately caused by mental illness or other issues. Even my older half-brother, who lost his mom at 5yo when my dad's first wife, who conceived him probably at age 44 or 45, died of breast cancer, didn't try to discourage me. FWIW, my dad was almost 51 when I was born, and my mom was 38 (not so old by today's standards, but it was years before I met another kid whose mom was as old as mine).

I don't think anyone here wants you to feel unworthy if you have limits to how much you want to financially compromise yourself to have a baby. I think everyone's just so geared toward cheerleading the discouraged and low on funds that we can't shift our viewpoint easily. I hope your therapist can help you find the balance you're seeking.

Take care,

Maggie (in VA)
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Joined: January 16th, 2011, 11:41 pm

January 30th, 2014, 7:46 pm #58

Just wanted to clarify the older parents issue. DH never thought of his parents as old at the time even though his dad was 45 and mom 38 when he was born in the 60s. He had a wonderful childhood and his parents are remarkably well for their advanced age-- live on their own at 84 and 91. His 91 yr old dad still does his own yardwork/operates the snow blower, drives etc. There's no mental illness, bad experiences at all here. He knows he is lucky in this regard amd thinks they have "good genes" to have accomplished all that. I was just shy of 37 when we got married and he was 42. We knew we'd be "older" parents for the get-go and were fine with that. But there's a limit for us because life during extended infertility treatments is miserable. We don't want to do this for several more years because we feel we are missing out on "life" while in this bubble. My comment was not a judgment at all for what is right for others ad their age when parenting.

We did just have an argument about DS. In his defense, he never wanted to do DE either. He thinks the entire process is just "too much" because the doctors' opinions just keep changing and he just doesn't trust them anymore. First it was my eggs and 7 cycles later, now it's sperm when there's no test to say its "bad". He said next it will be immune or my ute and the snowballing never stops..
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Joined: July 19th, 2006, 6:58 pm

January 30th, 2014, 8:04 pm #59

To admit that I just don't want to pursue this? I know that it may very well mean I end up CFNBC. I totally believe in RI but just don't want to. Is that awful? We don't have bc/bs and there's just no more money to give to this. I've been unable to find a job for a long time and lost a six figure salary. I know some would give their very last dollar to this but I can't. Maybe that makes me unworthy of getting a child but it is what it is. I think I've gone as far as I'm willing to go in the circles of hell...
Mrs McIrish I am so very sorry to read that the cycle was not a success. I know you have been trying for a long, long, long time and am so sorry for your loss. I was just lurking today when I saw your post about not wanting to do immune treatment and feeling bad about it. I just wanted to share my story with you. I am not sure if it will be helpful for you, but when I was trying to decide about immune stuff I found it helpful to hear from all sides.

Prior to my last OE IVF cycle I had all of the immune testing done through the Beers center. I have a number of reasons that I thought I may have immune issues (including thyroid problems, endo and another autoimmune problem. I had all the tests done. The Beers institute told me that I may very well never be able to sustain a pg without LIT and the use of Humira and if that did not work possibly IVIG. My husband and I went to Mexico twice for the LIT treatment. I spent a couple thousand dollars on a few shots of Humira. I was all immune primed and ready to go and my cycle was cancelled due to another medical issue they found with me. I agonized over whether or not to do it all again once my cycle was rescheduled for a couple of months later. I had hit a wall and decided I did not have it in me to do it again. The OE cycle did not work. I wondered if it was because I had not done the treatment. When I set things up for my DE cycle I still did not have it in me to go through all of that again. After about 4 years of doing everything I could I was just wiped out mentally so I crossed my fingers and hoped that I would not end up hating myself for not doing absolutely everything I could to make it a success. The DE cycle worked and so did a subsequent FET without any immune treatment at all.

I also am a believer in immune issues. I still am even though the Beers center information did not turn out to be correct for me. I am not sure I am a believer in all of it...but do believe they exist and need to be treated for some people. But, like everything else in IF I also think it is a crapshoot. If you do not think you can do it, go easy on yourself. And know that in some cases, you do not actually need the treatment even if you are told you do. Like I said, I hope this helps rather than cause further stress. Wishing you much luck and a baby!

P
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Joined: September 13th, 2008, 5:13 pm

January 30th, 2014, 9:24 pm #60

Forgot you were in the guarantee program -- sorry. I just wish I didn't have the feeling that your DH isn't as concerned with being fair to you as you are with being fair to him (please, I don't mean to offend here). He also nixed donor sperm, right? And, I admit, your comment about his being the child of older parents sort of pushes some buttons.

When the subject of older parenthood comes up in online forums, some adult children of older parents who had bad experiences will almost always chime in, vociferously, and the sense I usually get is that they feel their negative experience is more relevant than that of people like me and my younger sister who had positive or, at least, neutral experiences as the young children of older parents. And a lot of the time they seem to be blaming their parents' age for problems that were ultimately caused by mental illness or other issues. Even my older half-brother, who lost his mom at 5yo when my dad's first wife, who conceived him probably at age 44 or 45, died of breast cancer, didn't try to discourage me. FWIW, my dad was almost 51 when I was born, and my mom was 38 (not so old by today's standards, but it was years before I met another kid whose mom was as old as mine).

I don't think anyone here wants you to feel unworthy if you have limits to how much you want to financially compromise yourself to have a baby. I think everyone's just so geared toward cheerleading the discouraged and low on funds that we can't shift our viewpoint easily. I hope your therapist can help you find the balance you're seeking.

Take care,

Maggie (in VA)
Maybe I read too much into it, because my DH used the "we're too old!" line as his excuse for all his resistance. And I certainly understand how undergoing IF treatment for years would be more trying if it means you feel you're missing out on good times you could be having. Wishing you only the best, Maggie (in VA)
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