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Need Immediate Feedback

Joined: May 24th, 2012, 11:01 pm

May 25th, 2012, 11:23 pm #1

My betas are not doubling properly: 48, 110, 138, 151. Tomorrow I go in for u/s to see if an ectopic can be spotted. At this HCG level, my sense is that they can only see fluid in the tubes that would suggest an ectopic. First, is there any reason that I should hold out to see if a normal pregnancy is possible - perhaps starting out slowly. I seriously doubt it but would like to hear all opinions. Second, if my clinic wants to give me a methotrexate injection, under what circumstances would you agree to do it (what would they have to see) and under what circumstances would you wait? I need some experience and wisdom from the community. Thanks... -z
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Joined: January 19th, 2007, 7:18 pm

May 25th, 2012, 11:57 pm #2

I'm so, so sorry you're going through this. I'm really not qualified to give you any definitive answers, but I will gladly share with you what I did & thought, as I went through something similar with a happy ending.

Below I have pasted in my timeline, which you can consider, for what it's worth.

I went for many an early u/s & like you mentioned, with low betas, it's unlikely they will see anything. They were looking for anything unusual that would suggest an ectopic. Nothing was seen until very late, as you can see from below.

I can't say if you should hold out any hope. Since I had a live birth out of my strange scenario, I will always lean toward "anything is possible." Certainly situations like mine & yours usually do not end well, but who's to say where the line between sometimes & never lies?

I did not agree to do a methotrexate injection when my RE suggested it. I was about 6 wks. along at that point. The other doctor I had gone to see for an u/s thought he saw a sac in the uterus but couldn't be sure. He said no to the methotrexate, that we needed to wait a week & verify. A week later, a uterine sac was confirmed & there was a heartbeat.

So for me, I would not agree to it in the absence of confirmation of an ectopic pg. I felt, based on what the doctors could tell me & my own independent digging, that my health was not in danger that early on so there was no harm in waiting it out. If they are able to confirm an ectopic, that is different, of course.

This is a fairly unusual situation & it's even more unusual to report a healthy pg. & live birth, as I had. Still, I'm not completely alone. There have been other "miracle" pg. stories. But the women in this situation who end up having a m/c or an ectopic certainly outnumber the women with miracle pg. stories.

I would just suggest educating yourself so you can question your doctors & make the best decisions for yourself. Clinics certainly do have an eye on liability so that factors in. I was given no chance of it working out by my doctors, based on my betas, & I certainly didn't believe it would, but I felt I had to ride it out & wow did that prove to be a good move. In my case, the answers I was getting to my questions weren't really making a lot of sense, so that made some of my decisions, such as to keep riding it out, easier.

I hope things do work out & I'm so sorry you're going through this. I still remember what a terrible, terrible time it was for me.

Here is my beta pattern - dpo followed by beta #. It was a FET with 2 blasts.

11 dpo 26

13 dpo 53

16 dpo 39

18 dpo 41

20 dpo 72

23 dpo 179

27 dpo 559

30 dpo 921

31 dpo - "possible" sac seen in uterus - ob through RI's office said it doesn't look good, but he wanted to wait another week & felt it was too early to consider methotrexate, which my RE wanted me to do by this point

33 dpo 2671

37 dpo (7w2d) - last beta drawn at 4238 - ob through RI's office saw a sac with strong heart beat, but said it was misshapen & likely not viable - told me to come back in a week

40dpo (7w5d) - u/s with local peri. - measuring 6w6d - heart beat strong - sac looked fine - everything looked fine - I canceled my out of town appt. with the RI's office - it was quite a while before I actually believed the pg. was normal, but I had a healthy baby at 37 wks.




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Joined: January 19th, 2007, 7:18 pm

May 26th, 2012, 12:02 am #3

I just saw your exchange with thesameboat about RI issues. I'm another one who had a history of failed DE cycles before finally succeeding. After 3 failures, 2 of which were with excellent embryos, I consulted with a reproductive immunology clinic & I was under its care for immune issues when I got pg. on DE attempt 4. That was ds #1. Ds #2 was my wacky beta baby.



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Joined: September 26th, 2008, 9:06 pm

May 26th, 2012, 10:03 pm #4

My betas are not doubling properly: 48, 110, 138, 151. Tomorrow I go in for u/s to see if an ectopic can be spotted. At this HCG level, my sense is that they can only see fluid in the tubes that would suggest an ectopic. First, is there any reason that I should hold out to see if a normal pregnancy is possible - perhaps starting out slowly. I seriously doubt it but would like to hear all opinions. Second, if my clinic wants to give me a methotrexate injection, under what circumstances would you agree to do it (what would they have to see) and under what circumstances would you wait? I need some experience and wisdom from the community. Thanks... -z
Personally, I would prefer not to take methotrexate, if possible. I think it might not be necessary, anyway, if worse comes to worst and the pregnancy turns out not to be viable. Usually, stopping meds this early would bring on your period.

Hoping for you that you'll be one who overcomes this rough start.
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Joined: May 24th, 2012, 11:01 pm

May 27th, 2012, 12:14 am #5

I'm so, so sorry you're going through this. I'm really not qualified to give you any definitive answers, but I will gladly share with you what I did & thought, as I went through something similar with a happy ending.

Below I have pasted in my timeline, which you can consider, for what it's worth.

I went for many an early u/s & like you mentioned, with low betas, it's unlikely they will see anything. They were looking for anything unusual that would suggest an ectopic. Nothing was seen until very late, as you can see from below.

I can't say if you should hold out any hope. Since I had a live birth out of my strange scenario, I will always lean toward "anything is possible." Certainly situations like mine & yours usually do not end well, but who's to say where the line between sometimes & never lies?

I did not agree to do a methotrexate injection when my RE suggested it. I was about 6 wks. along at that point. The other doctor I had gone to see for an u/s thought he saw a sac in the uterus but couldn't be sure. He said no to the methotrexate, that we needed to wait a week & verify. A week later, a uterine sac was confirmed & there was a heartbeat.

So for me, I would not agree to it in the absence of confirmation of an ectopic pg. I felt, based on what the doctors could tell me & my own independent digging, that my health was not in danger that early on so there was no harm in waiting it out. If they are able to confirm an ectopic, that is different, of course.

This is a fairly unusual situation & it's even more unusual to report a healthy pg. & live birth, as I had. Still, I'm not completely alone. There have been other "miracle" pg. stories. But the women in this situation who end up having a m/c or an ectopic certainly outnumber the women with miracle pg. stories.

I would just suggest educating yourself so you can question your doctors & make the best decisions for yourself. Clinics certainly do have an eye on liability so that factors in. I was given no chance of it working out by my doctors, based on my betas, & I certainly didn't believe it would, but I felt I had to ride it out & wow did that prove to be a good move. In my case, the answers I was getting to my questions weren't really making a lot of sense, so that made some of my decisions, such as to keep riding it out, easier.

I hope things do work out & I'm so sorry you're going through this. I still remember what a terrible, terrible time it was for me.

Here is my beta pattern - dpo followed by beta #. It was a FET with 2 blasts.

11 dpo 26

13 dpo 53

16 dpo 39

18 dpo 41

20 dpo 72

23 dpo 179

27 dpo 559

30 dpo 921

31 dpo - "possible" sac seen in uterus - ob through RI's office said it doesn't look good, but he wanted to wait another week & felt it was too early to consider methotrexate, which my RE wanted me to do by this point

33 dpo 2671

37 dpo (7w2d) - last beta drawn at 4238 - ob through RI's office saw a sac with strong heart beat, but said it was misshapen & likely not viable - told me to come back in a week

40dpo (7w5d) - u/s with local peri. - measuring 6w6d - heart beat strong - sac looked fine - everything looked fine - I canceled my out of town appt. with the RI's office - it was quite a while before I actually believed the pg. was normal, but I had a healthy baby at 37 wks.




Thank you so much for your kind and helpful words.

Ariadne, your story is very compelling. So the following is my beta story. Maybe someone can help me with respect to telling me when the first beta is taken -- so, based on Ariadne's calculation, I wonder if my numbers would look something like below.

11 dpo 48
13 dpo 110
15 dpo 138
17 dpo 151
19 dpo 195

I'm told that I'm 5w2d pregnant. No sac seen today.

I regret that I stopped taking my meds dpo 16 (just my progesterone dose), took it the next night, (dpo 17)
but then stopped again last night (dpo 18). I just couldn't continue sticking myself when I felt so hopeless.
So when I went in today, my beta was 195 but my progesterone was about 3.5. I wish I would have stuck it out longer.
I also took my estradial intermittently.

So just to give this pregnancy every chance I can, I've decided to stay on my meds faithfully until my next reading,
which will be on Tuesday (dpo 22). I wish I had read your post before now, Ariadne -- I actually thought that the rise to 195 today showed a little hope. My doctor has told me to stop meds but I think I might as well give this the fullest possible try. Of course, being off the meds intermittently might have blown the small possibility. If it's an ectopic, I imagine as long as I'm below a beta of 1000 I'd be safe. So we shall see if Tuesday brings any hope.

If anyone has thoughts about the on and off medication part, please chime in on this. I'm hoping that I haven't done something bad to the fetus' development, were it to surprise us all and be viable.

I'd be so appreciative if you guys could hang in with me and say a prayer if that is the kind of thing you do. Ariadne, your story is definitely wacky but incredibly wonderful. I'm a single mom and it's that much harder to face this alone.

With thanks... -z
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Joined: May 10th, 2011, 11:57 pm

May 27th, 2012, 3:47 am #6

My betas are not doubling properly: 48, 110, 138, 151. Tomorrow I go in for u/s to see if an ectopic can be spotted. At this HCG level, my sense is that they can only see fluid in the tubes that would suggest an ectopic. First, is there any reason that I should hold out to see if a normal pregnancy is possible - perhaps starting out slowly. I seriously doubt it but would like to hear all opinions. Second, if my clinic wants to give me a methotrexate injection, under what circumstances would you agree to do it (what would they have to see) and under what circumstances would you wait? I need some experience and wisdom from the community. Thanks... -z
Zaria, I'm so sorry you are going through this uncertainty. I'm glad Ariadne has shared her story with you. I agree that watching and waiting is appropriate, as well as staying on your meds. And please, if this doesn't work out, do not blame yourself for going off the meds.

Please do be on the lookout for symptoms such as pain on one side or in one shoulder. I had an ectopic a few years ago that fortunately did not rupture, but my mom had one that ruptured and she lost a lot of blood before they realized what was going on (this was before u/s). In each case, we went on to have a healthy baby later.

Take care and keep us posted. I'm holding good thoughts for you!

Jen in TN

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Joined: May 24th, 2012, 11:01 pm

May 27th, 2012, 4:31 pm #7

Oh, this has been a challenging week. Last night at 12:30am, my mother, who is elderly and has been having medical issues
was rushed to the hospital. She stopped breathing and is on a ventilator. I was at the hospital all night, and after a little sleep, am headed back. I swear, I can't help but feel that my attempt at a sibling is not meant to be. I went back on my meds, and then this twist -- this is my 4th fresh donor cycle and so may things have gone wrong -- most to do with the clinic, things which seem like they were unnecessary and completely preventable. Have any of you had a host of bad turns, one after another, making you feel like it was a sign that you shouldn't go forward? I'm very exhausted and confused. Thanks for listening and responding. Support from people in the trenches is like none other. -z
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Joined: September 26th, 2008, 9:06 pm

May 27th, 2012, 6:21 pm #8

I sincerely hope for the best possible outcome for her. It sounds very stressful for you, too.

Signs? Well, once DH and I were out on a long cycle ride just days before a carefully planned and much longed for try. Everything was perfect. And we saw 3 storks standing next to a cabbage patch! I even took a picture.

But I didn't get pregnant.

No, I don't believe in signs.

Thinking of you and wishing for the best.
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Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 9:13 pm

May 27th, 2012, 7:08 pm #9

Oh, this has been a challenging week. Last night at 12:30am, my mother, who is elderly and has been having medical issues
was rushed to the hospital. She stopped breathing and is on a ventilator. I was at the hospital all night, and after a little sleep, am headed back. I swear, I can't help but feel that my attempt at a sibling is not meant to be. I went back on my meds, and then this twist -- this is my 4th fresh donor cycle and so may things have gone wrong -- most to do with the clinic, things which seem like they were unnecessary and completely preventable. Have any of you had a host of bad turns, one after another, making you feel like it was a sign that you shouldn't go forward? I'm very exhausted and confused. Thanks for listening and responding. Support from people in the trenches is like none other. -z
And it wasn't a sign to stop moving forward. Just our experience:

-OE pregnancy on honeymoon...mc
-OE pregnancy two months later...mc
-OE pregnancy with meds...mc at 16 weeks with very rare chromosomal disorder
-FET from donor embryos...frozen at day two...called day of transfer that all 4 had died so no transfer
-FET from donor embryos...frozen at day two, implanted three...ended in ectopic pregnancy and removal of tube
-fresh donor egg cycle...it was donors fifth cycle and she had never had less than thirty eggs. With us, she had 11. 9 fertilized, 7 made it to day 5. Implanted two. Ended in early mc.
-FET from donor egg cycle...5 left, all but two died during thaw. Ended in BFN.

-FET from new batch of donated embryos. All but two died during thaw. Ended in a perfect pregnancy and perfect little boy.

I am so sorry you are going through all this.



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Joined: April 10th, 2008, 1:25 am

May 27th, 2012, 10:38 pm #10

Oh, this has been a challenging week. Last night at 12:30am, my mother, who is elderly and has been having medical issues
was rushed to the hospital. She stopped breathing and is on a ventilator. I was at the hospital all night, and after a little sleep, am headed back. I swear, I can't help but feel that my attempt at a sibling is not meant to be. I went back on my meds, and then this twist -- this is my 4th fresh donor cycle and so may things have gone wrong -- most to do with the clinic, things which seem like they were unnecessary and completely preventable. Have any of you had a host of bad turns, one after another, making you feel like it was a sign that you shouldn't go forward? I'm very exhausted and confused. Thanks for listening and responding. Support from people in the trenches is like none other. -z
I feel destiny and happiness is ours, and when twists and turns come into our doubting mines its just the devil having a good time with us. So try to stay positive and know that God will see you through all of the challenges with mom and this cycle. You will come out ahead, but do your best to give up the worry and doubts and know you will be okay.

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