is this a normal response for a DE cycle?

Mayb
Mayb

February 3rd, 2014, 2:49 am #1

Just wondering if this is in the range of what one would expect of a typical DE cycle. We will clearly need to do another cycle (we want to pre-plan for sibling/s even if I get pg now) and I wonder if I should consider any changes (to donor, clinic, etc).

Our donor was 21-22 yrs old, and here's the stats from the cycle:
Retrieved: 18 eggs
Fertilized: 10 fertilized
Day 3: 9 still in play: 6 "very good' quality (8-9 cells, grade 1-2) and 3 not as good ( 4-5 cells, grade 1-3)
Day 5: 4 were "excellent" blastocysts (1 got transferred, 3 frozen), the remaining 5 were to be checked on Day 6
Day 6: none of those remaining 5 was any good and none of them got frozen

I haven't received any more specific information on the quality of the blastocysts, I will ask more once the weekend is over when I can more easily talk to somebody.

What do you gals think?

Mayb
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Joined: December 21st, 2011, 7:41 pm

February 3rd, 2014, 5:21 am #2

I'm interested in hearing what others think, but it looks like a good response to me - in a nutshell you got 4 excellent embryos out of a single cycle - that's good! My clinic loosely aimed for the rule of halves - half of the eggs retrieved should fertilize, then half of those would be good on day 5 - with those guidelines you are right on track. I also remember them (ORM) saying that really the goal is a pregnancy on fresh transfer, and anything worthy freezing is a bonus. I transferred 1 fresh & have 2 frozen from a cycle. Good luck with your cycle - beta in 10 days or so? Fingers-crossed!

PS - Do you know your clinic's stats for frozen cycles? That's an important factor for siblings
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Mayb
Mayb

February 3rd, 2014, 6:55 am #3

Thanks - this is very reassuring. Though also disappointing, since I had assumed that there should be more to freeze if a cycle goes well. We had wanted to have three kids and are hoping to keep this option open, from the same donor - so this complicates things a bit for us.

Yes - beta in 10 day! Can't believe it . This has been a long road. Are you also in 2ww?

My clinic doesn't have great SART stats on frozen DE cycles, but I discussed this with them and it seems the stats were highly skewed by 2-3 ladied doing a lot of unsuccessful transfers. I have personally experienced how willing the clinic is to work with very difficult low likelihood cases while I was trying with OE, so not surprised at all that this could happen there. I find SART stats really difficult to compare. I'm not even sure if there is a way to tell if what was transferred was frozen at Day 3 or Day 5.
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Joined: November 28th, 2012, 12:12 am

February 3rd, 2014, 1:34 pm #4

Just wondering if this is in the range of what one would expect of a typical DE cycle. We will clearly need to do another cycle (we want to pre-plan for sibling/s even if I get pg now) and I wonder if I should consider any changes (to donor, clinic, etc).

Our donor was 21-22 yrs old, and here's the stats from the cycle:
Retrieved: 18 eggs
Fertilized: 10 fertilized
Day 3: 9 still in play: 6 "very good' quality (8-9 cells, grade 1-2) and 3 not as good ( 4-5 cells, grade 1-3)
Day 5: 4 were "excellent" blastocysts (1 got transferred, 3 frozen), the remaining 5 were to be checked on Day 6
Day 6: none of those remaining 5 was any good and none of them got frozen

I haven't received any more specific information on the quality of the blastocysts, I will ask more once the weekend is over when I can more easily talk to somebody.

What do you gals think?

Mayb
First, GOOD LUCK! I hope you have a fantastic beta.

I think your concern is warranted. 4 good blasts from 18 eggs is a little low but not horrible. I expect my RE would say it was good even if I weren't feeling great about it.

If you really wanted to get into it you could look at the donor's cycle details to see if there's anything unusual with it. My guess is that it was all good. My clinic discourages patients from using donors that young since eggs can be immature and it's easier for them to develop OHSS. Based on your numbers and early fertilization there doesn't appear to be an obvious issues there. Probably not worth digging into her protocol to see how much FSH she received.

I've heard a lot of anecdotal feedback that getting to blast is more about sperm quality. I'm interested to see if other people think that it's worth a look into the sperm side of things.

Try not to worry. I know it's nearly impossible when you're in the 2WW. Hopefully you won't need those frosties for a while. We'd all love dozens of beautiful blasts in the cryo bank but many people never need more than a few good ones. Good luck!
Last edited by GeminiWW on February 3rd, 2014, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

February 3rd, 2014, 2:22 pm #5

Just wondering if this is in the range of what one would expect of a typical DE cycle. We will clearly need to do another cycle (we want to pre-plan for sibling/s even if I get pg now) and I wonder if I should consider any changes (to donor, clinic, etc).

Our donor was 21-22 yrs old, and here's the stats from the cycle:
Retrieved: 18 eggs
Fertilized: 10 fertilized
Day 3: 9 still in play: 6 "very good' quality (8-9 cells, grade 1-2) and 3 not as good ( 4-5 cells, grade 1-3)
Day 5: 4 were "excellent" blastocysts (1 got transferred, 3 frozen), the remaining 5 were to be checked on Day 6
Day 6: none of those remaining 5 was any good and none of them got frozen

I haven't received any more specific information on the quality of the blastocysts, I will ask more once the weekend is over when I can more easily talk to somebody.

What do you gals think?

Mayb
I defer to others but my interpretation is that the fertilization rate is possibly a bit low. Did the use ICSI? Were some of the eggs immature. (Usually, the doctors will retreive any and all eggs but some may be too immature to ever have a reasonable chance at fertilization.) My experience has always been with ICSI so I may be off base on fertilization rates without ICSI.

But, I have always been told that, of those eggs that fertilize, you should expect most to make to to 3 day (ie 90% and up). Then, with donor eggs, if 1/2 of those to make it to blast that is great. I have occasionally heard of a freind getting significantly more than 50% of 3-days make it to blast, but it has been rare in my experience. I know this is all so scary but I think those numbers sound quite good.

Here are some numbers from Shady Grove. http://www.shadygrovefertility.com/donor-egg-success
It doesn't provide the exact numbers you are looking for but Table 2 gives some sense of averages.

Good luck!!!
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Joined: November 28th, 2012, 12:12 am

February 3rd, 2014, 3:34 pm #6

My RE also told us that in a good cycle 50% of what makes it to day 3 will make it to blast. I think 90% for initial fert getting to 3-day is a little bit high.

Don't worry if you didn't do ICSI. If the sperm quality is very good my RE says fert rate will be better without ICSI.
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Anne
Anne

February 3rd, 2014, 5:31 pm #7

Just wondering if this is in the range of what one would expect of a typical DE cycle. We will clearly need to do another cycle (we want to pre-plan for sibling/s even if I get pg now) and I wonder if I should consider any changes (to donor, clinic, etc).

Our donor was 21-22 yrs old, and here's the stats from the cycle:
Retrieved: 18 eggs
Fertilized: 10 fertilized
Day 3: 9 still in play: 6 "very good' quality (8-9 cells, grade 1-2) and 3 not as good ( 4-5 cells, grade 1-3)
Day 5: 4 were "excellent" blastocysts (1 got transferred, 3 frozen), the remaining 5 were to be checked on Day 6
Day 6: none of those remaining 5 was any good and none of them got frozen

I haven't received any more specific information on the quality of the blastocysts, I will ask more once the weekend is over when I can more easily talk to somebody.

What do you gals think?

Mayb
Of the 18 eggs retrieved, probably all were not mature. Of successfully fertilized eggs, one clinic said 40-50% blast rate is typical.

They didn't say the 40-50% were necessarily well-graded blasts, just that they become "blasts". Some clinics don't freeze any blasts below BB grade (AKA they don't freeze ones with a C anywhere in the grading). It sounds like you have a good number frozen on day 5, and day 5's have a higher average implantation rate than day 6 blasts.

It all sounds very hopeful, good luck with the 2ww.
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Joined: December 21st, 2011, 7:41 pm

February 4th, 2014, 12:21 am #8

Thanks - this is very reassuring. Though also disappointing, since I had assumed that there should be more to freeze if a cycle goes well. We had wanted to have three kids and are hoping to keep this option open, from the same donor - so this complicates things a bit for us.

Yes - beta in 10 day! Can't believe it . This has been a long road. Are you also in 2ww?

My clinic doesn't have great SART stats on frozen DE cycles, but I discussed this with them and it seems the stats were highly skewed by 2-3 ladied doing a lot of unsuccessful transfers. I have personally experienced how willing the clinic is to work with very difficult low likelihood cases while I was trying with OE, so not surprised at all that this could happen there. I find SART stats really difficult to compare. I'm not even sure if there is a way to tell if what was transferred was frozen at Day 3 or Day 5.
I would have liked more to freeze too, for sure - so I get what you're saying!

My 2WW seems like it was a long time ago - the result of my fresh cycle is currently 14 months old & napping
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Mayb
Mayb

February 4th, 2014, 12:45 am #9

Awesome
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