input on repeated failure with donor cycles?

input on repeated failure with donor cycles?

KerriA
KerriA

August 28th, 2012, 12:09 am #1

Hi,
I am a frequent lurker but infrequent poster. I'm single, 38, and have been TTC for nearly 3 years - started out with high FSH. Have had 1 second trimester loss and 2 chemical pregnancies. I have gone through 2 donor embryo (all blasts) FET The donating couple had transferred 2 and go twinst. The first time the embies were so-so - transferred 2 - BFN. Second, donor embie cycle (same batch), embies looked great - transferred 3 - with assisted hatching, embryo glue, and uterine infusion of G-CSF - BFN.

I just completed a fresh split cycle using donor eggs from a 10 time proven donor who was 29 days from being 30 at time of retrieval. We did two single embryo transfers - 1 on day 4 and the second on day 6. I was on heparin, BA, PIO, and delestrogen and was also on antibiotics and prednisone just before and a few days after transfer. I just found out today it was BFN. I'm feeling very devastated - going through all of this and being financially spent with nothing but trauma to show for it.

The donor only had 8 mature eggs and I ended up with 3 embryos - 2 transferred and one on ice. At the time of the transfer, the embryologist also mentioned that they have more donor embryos for me if I want them (I think they are from a donor egg cycle).

I'm supposed to meet with my RE on wednesday. I'm trying to think about what to ask and even if I should just stop treatment and start saving for private domestic adoption. After my second trimester loss, I was really hoping that I could have a pregnancy with a healthy baby. I have really wanted that experience all my life but I do know that being a Mom is my number one goal.

I would appreciate any thoughts from you all.

thank you,
kerri
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Joined: May 15th, 2009, 12:50 am

August 28th, 2012, 1:38 am #2

I'm very sorry for all your losses. You've certainly been through a tough journey so far.

Have you considered screening for any of these issues that could interfere with implantation and cause chemical pregnancies?
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Joined: May 15th, 2009, 12:50 am

August 28th, 2012, 1:38 am #3

Hi,
I am a frequent lurker but infrequent poster. I'm single, 38, and have been TTC for nearly 3 years - started out with high FSH. Have had 1 second trimester loss and 2 chemical pregnancies. I have gone through 2 donor embryo (all blasts) FET The donating couple had transferred 2 and go twinst. The first time the embies were so-so - transferred 2 - BFN. Second, donor embie cycle (same batch), embies looked great - transferred 3 - with assisted hatching, embryo glue, and uterine infusion of G-CSF - BFN.

I just completed a fresh split cycle using donor eggs from a 10 time proven donor who was 29 days from being 30 at time of retrieval. We did two single embryo transfers - 1 on day 4 and the second on day 6. I was on heparin, BA, PIO, and delestrogen and was also on antibiotics and prednisone just before and a few days after transfer. I just found out today it was BFN. I'm feeling very devastated - going through all of this and being financially spent with nothing but trauma to show for it.

The donor only had 8 mature eggs and I ended up with 3 embryos - 2 transferred and one on ice. At the time of the transfer, the embryologist also mentioned that they have more donor embryos for me if I want them (I think they are from a donor egg cycle).

I'm supposed to meet with my RE on wednesday. I'm trying to think about what to ask and even if I should just stop treatment and start saving for private domestic adoption. After my second trimester loss, I was really hoping that I could have a pregnancy with a healthy baby. I have really wanted that experience all my life but I do know that being a Mom is my number one goal.

I would appreciate any thoughts from you all.

thank you,
kerri
Accidental duplicate post ... n/t
Last edited by CTSmithie on August 28th, 2012, 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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thesameboat
thesameboat

August 28th, 2012, 2:54 am #4

Hi,
I am a frequent lurker but infrequent poster. I'm single, 38, and have been TTC for nearly 3 years - started out with high FSH. Have had 1 second trimester loss and 2 chemical pregnancies. I have gone through 2 donor embryo (all blasts) FET The donating couple had transferred 2 and go twinst. The first time the embies were so-so - transferred 2 - BFN. Second, donor embie cycle (same batch), embies looked great - transferred 3 - with assisted hatching, embryo glue, and uterine infusion of G-CSF - BFN.

I just completed a fresh split cycle using donor eggs from a 10 time proven donor who was 29 days from being 30 at time of retrieval. We did two single embryo transfers - 1 on day 4 and the second on day 6. I was on heparin, BA, PIO, and delestrogen and was also on antibiotics and prednisone just before and a few days after transfer. I just found out today it was BFN. I'm feeling very devastated - going through all of this and being financially spent with nothing but trauma to show for it.

The donor only had 8 mature eggs and I ended up with 3 embryos - 2 transferred and one on ice. At the time of the transfer, the embryologist also mentioned that they have more donor embryos for me if I want them (I think they are from a donor egg cycle).

I'm supposed to meet with my RE on wednesday. I'm trying to think about what to ask and even if I should just stop treatment and start saving for private domestic adoption. After my second trimester loss, I was really hoping that I could have a pregnancy with a healthy baby. I have really wanted that experience all my life but I do know that being a Mom is my number one goal.

I would appreciate any thoughts from you all.

thank you,
kerri
I know how frustrating it is to go through cycle after cycle. It sounds like your RE is already aware of and supportive of treating immune issues. You wrote that you were on prednisone and heparin but not how much or for how long.

5 mg prednisone didn't do anything for me. I had to start early and take 15 mg and I had to take that until 12 weeks before slowly weaning off. And the heparin I am on until the end. I was under the care of a reproductive immunologist after undergoing several DE cycles with no bfp. I finally got pregnant with donor 4 (5th transfer) but m/c. She then added a few extras. I am on OTC bovine colostrum pills every morning (1.5 mg on an empty stomach with about 10 oz of water), and took granocyte injections (one 2 hours before transfer and one 24 hours after). Also, because I tested positive for 2 copies of MTHFR I have to take very large doses of folic acid with B6 and B12. That reduces the homocysteine levels in my blood. Fish oil every day helps a little bit, too.

The reproductive immunologist also did a BLOOD test to check for antibodies to chlamydia. I had only ever had vaginal swabs for that (and many, over the years) and I was shocked to find that the blood test showed that I have antibodies. She suspected the chlamydia lives too far up for the swabs to catch. So I take broadband antibiotics starting 3 days before transfer and continue for 3 days after transfer.

I've had 2 transfers since that m/c and both were successful. I am a believer.

I hope you find your answers soon. I know it hurts.
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Joined: May 19th, 2012, 4:22 pm

August 28th, 2012, 3:38 am #5

Hi,
I am a frequent lurker but infrequent poster. I'm single, 38, and have been TTC for nearly 3 years - started out with high FSH. Have had 1 second trimester loss and 2 chemical pregnancies. I have gone through 2 donor embryo (all blasts) FET The donating couple had transferred 2 and go twinst. The first time the embies were so-so - transferred 2 - BFN. Second, donor embie cycle (same batch), embies looked great - transferred 3 - with assisted hatching, embryo glue, and uterine infusion of G-CSF - BFN.

I just completed a fresh split cycle using donor eggs from a 10 time proven donor who was 29 days from being 30 at time of retrieval. We did two single embryo transfers - 1 on day 4 and the second on day 6. I was on heparin, BA, PIO, and delestrogen and was also on antibiotics and prednisone just before and a few days after transfer. I just found out today it was BFN. I'm feeling very devastated - going through all of this and being financially spent with nothing but trauma to show for it.

The donor only had 8 mature eggs and I ended up with 3 embryos - 2 transferred and one on ice. At the time of the transfer, the embryologist also mentioned that they have more donor embryos for me if I want them (I think they are from a donor egg cycle).

I'm supposed to meet with my RE on wednesday. I'm trying to think about what to ask and even if I should just stop treatment and start saving for private domestic adoption. After my second trimester loss, I was really hoping that I could have a pregnancy with a healthy baby. I have really wanted that experience all my life but I do know that being a Mom is my number one goal.

I would appreciate any thoughts from you all.

thank you,
kerri
Hi Kerri - I sympathize with your journey. I too have been TTC for almost 3 years as a single woman. I had always made a sufficient number of eggs that looked great under the microscope, but no success. I had 2 early miscarriages and a chemical pregnancy. I switched to DE a few months ago and did two FET in succession (no live transfer because I started bleeding and did a freeze all.) First time, we transferred 2 perfect blasts from a proven donor. BFN. Second time, we transferred 2 perfect blasts and 1 ok blast. BFN. I also was using Heparin. I had previously used prednisone. I am also at a loss as to what is going on. I am going to do a live transfer before I give up. I don't necessarily think that you've tried too many times to give up (financial reasons aside). Sometimes it does take a bunch of tries. But I would look closely at lining issues. Personally, I am researching and communicating with my RE regarding whether there could be something going on with my lining. I think bombarding my body with all these meds results in a hormonal imbalance - especially since the times I've been pg have not involved any meds. The endometrium has to be just right for implantation... Anyway - just my two cents and support - you definitely are not alone in your experiences.
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Joined: October 9th, 2008, 2:53 am

August 28th, 2012, 4:10 am #6

Hi,
I am a frequent lurker but infrequent poster. I'm single, 38, and have been TTC for nearly 3 years - started out with high FSH. Have had 1 second trimester loss and 2 chemical pregnancies. I have gone through 2 donor embryo (all blasts) FET The donating couple had transferred 2 and go twinst. The first time the embies were so-so - transferred 2 - BFN. Second, donor embie cycle (same batch), embies looked great - transferred 3 - with assisted hatching, embryo glue, and uterine infusion of G-CSF - BFN.

I just completed a fresh split cycle using donor eggs from a 10 time proven donor who was 29 days from being 30 at time of retrieval. We did two single embryo transfers - 1 on day 4 and the second on day 6. I was on heparin, BA, PIO, and delestrogen and was also on antibiotics and prednisone just before and a few days after transfer. I just found out today it was BFN. I'm feeling very devastated - going through all of this and being financially spent with nothing but trauma to show for it.

The donor only had 8 mature eggs and I ended up with 3 embryos - 2 transferred and one on ice. At the time of the transfer, the embryologist also mentioned that they have more donor embryos for me if I want them (I think they are from a donor egg cycle).

I'm supposed to meet with my RE on wednesday. I'm trying to think about what to ask and even if I should just stop treatment and start saving for private domestic adoption. After my second trimester loss, I was really hoping that I could have a pregnancy with a healthy baby. I have really wanted that experience all my life but I do know that being a Mom is my number one goal.

I would appreciate any thoughts from you all.

thank you,
kerri
HI Kerri,
I can see you are doing everything you can. IN the cold light of day even someone with megga fertility, young, and so on only has a 50% 'chance' of getting pg at any random month.
I was single like you when I began my journey. I can only say keep going and keep going. You have more options as you have another emby and then others available.
I did 8 cycles before success. It takes time to get over failures. Allow yourself that time before you regroup.
Hold fast and stay strong. best, THK
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Joined: September 26th, 2008, 9:06 pm

August 28th, 2012, 6:04 am #7

I know how frustrating it is to go through cycle after cycle. It sounds like your RE is already aware of and supportive of treating immune issues. You wrote that you were on prednisone and heparin but not how much or for how long.

5 mg prednisone didn't do anything for me. I had to start early and take 15 mg and I had to take that until 12 weeks before slowly weaning off. And the heparin I am on until the end. I was under the care of a reproductive immunologist after undergoing several DE cycles with no bfp. I finally got pregnant with donor 4 (5th transfer) but m/c. She then added a few extras. I am on OTC bovine colostrum pills every morning (1.5 mg on an empty stomach with about 10 oz of water), and took granocyte injections (one 2 hours before transfer and one 24 hours after). Also, because I tested positive for 2 copies of MTHFR I have to take very large doses of folic acid with B6 and B12. That reduces the homocysteine levels in my blood. Fish oil every day helps a little bit, too.

The reproductive immunologist also did a BLOOD test to check for antibodies to chlamydia. I had only ever had vaginal swabs for that (and many, over the years) and I was shocked to find that the blood test showed that I have antibodies. She suspected the chlamydia lives too far up for the swabs to catch. So I take broadband antibiotics starting 3 days before transfer and continue for 3 days after transfer.

I've had 2 transfers since that m/c and both were successful. I am a believer.

I hope you find your answers soon. I know it hurts.
That's 1.5 grams of bovine colostrum per day, not 1.5 mg. I take three 500 mg pills.
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Joined: July 3rd, 2004, 10:12 pm

August 28th, 2012, 8:29 am #8

Hi,
I am a frequent lurker but infrequent poster. I'm single, 38, and have been TTC for nearly 3 years - started out with high FSH. Have had 1 second trimester loss and 2 chemical pregnancies. I have gone through 2 donor embryo (all blasts) FET The donating couple had transferred 2 and go twinst. The first time the embies were so-so - transferred 2 - BFN. Second, donor embie cycle (same batch), embies looked great - transferred 3 - with assisted hatching, embryo glue, and uterine infusion of G-CSF - BFN.

I just completed a fresh split cycle using donor eggs from a 10 time proven donor who was 29 days from being 30 at time of retrieval. We did two single embryo transfers - 1 on day 4 and the second on day 6. I was on heparin, BA, PIO, and delestrogen and was also on antibiotics and prednisone just before and a few days after transfer. I just found out today it was BFN. I'm feeling very devastated - going through all of this and being financially spent with nothing but trauma to show for it.

The donor only had 8 mature eggs and I ended up with 3 embryos - 2 transferred and one on ice. At the time of the transfer, the embryologist also mentioned that they have more donor embryos for me if I want them (I think they are from a donor egg cycle).

I'm supposed to meet with my RE on wednesday. I'm trying to think about what to ask and even if I should just stop treatment and start saving for private domestic adoption. After my second trimester loss, I was really hoping that I could have a pregnancy with a healthy baby. I have really wanted that experience all my life but I do know that being a Mom is my number one goal.

I would appreciate any thoughts from you all.

thank you,
kerri
journey.

Thesameboat has give you some really valuable info.

Here are the main issues that contribute to loss and failure generally and I would urge you and DH to be tested before cycling again.

DH - has he been karyotyped for genetic issues? (Were you karyotyped when using OE?).
DH - has he had extensive sperm testing including DNA fragmentation. Often high dose antioxidants are recommened for period before cycling and you may want to find out more.

Infection
You and DH - have you been tested for infection. This means chlamydia, ureaplasma, mycoplasma, group B strep, BV etc. Untreated, these can cause failure and miscarriage.

You -

Thyroid
What is your latest thyroid test like? Test TSH, T3, T4 and antithyrod antibodies. Optimum TSH for fertility is between 1 and 2. Problems with thyroid are common and can cause miscarriage.

Uterine issues
Have you had a recent hysteroscopy to check for abnormalites/fibroids/polyps etc?

Clotting Issues
You need an extensive clotting panel which would include, APS, anticariolipins, Factor V Leiden, protein C resistane, Lupus anticoagulant, MTHFR, prothrombin gene mutation, PAI etc.

Autoimmune Issues
E.g Antinucler antibodies, rheumatoid factor, thyroid, LAC, etc etc.

More unusual and specialist testing:-

Tnfa cytokines
Natural Killer Cells
DQA etc etc

I would really recommend you have this testing either via your RE/clinic or a specialist like Repromed (Alan Beer Centre) or other Reproductive Immunologists.

Were you given any reason for your losses?

If you are taking heparin, you need to start it on day one of cycle and probably continue until after birth.

Steroids need to be started from day 1 of cycle and continued for 12 weeks into pregancy.

You may also want to consider genetically testing your embryos via PGD/CGH for a belt and braces approach.

You may also find it beneficial to start a high dose folic/b vt now eg. Folard 2.2 or metanx.

Have you considered finding a new clinic with to get a fresh approach?

I would urge you to investigate further befoe moving ahead although I know how daunting it is.



Best of luck,

Daisy
xxxx

Last edited by loochieuk on August 28th, 2012, 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DeeinNYC
DeeinNYC

August 28th, 2012, 2:05 pm #9

Keri,

I'm so sorry that things have not worked out. Daisy's post pretty much summarizes all of the things I would look into. I would especially look into immune issues. Your Dr will likely poo-poo them, but in your shoes, I would do the immune testing and seek out a good RI.
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Joined: January 19th, 2007, 7:18 pm

August 28th, 2012, 2:14 pm #10

journey.

Thesameboat has give you some really valuable info.

Here are the main issues that contribute to loss and failure generally and I would urge you and DH to be tested before cycling again.

DH - has he been karyotyped for genetic issues? (Were you karyotyped when using OE?).
DH - has he had extensive sperm testing including DNA fragmentation. Often high dose antioxidants are recommened for period before cycling and you may want to find out more.

Infection
You and DH - have you been tested for infection. This means chlamydia, ureaplasma, mycoplasma, group B strep, BV etc. Untreated, these can cause failure and miscarriage.

You -

Thyroid
What is your latest thyroid test like? Test TSH, T3, T4 and antithyrod antibodies. Optimum TSH for fertility is between 1 and 2. Problems with thyroid are common and can cause miscarriage.

Uterine issues
Have you had a recent hysteroscopy to check for abnormalites/fibroids/polyps etc?

Clotting Issues
You need an extensive clotting panel which would include, APS, anticariolipins, Factor V Leiden, protein C resistane, Lupus anticoagulant, MTHFR, prothrombin gene mutation, PAI etc.

Autoimmune Issues
E.g Antinucler antibodies, rheumatoid factor, thyroid, LAC, etc etc.

More unusual and specialist testing:-

Tnfa cytokines
Natural Killer Cells
DQA etc etc

I would really recommend you have this testing either via your RE/clinic or a specialist like Repromed (Alan Beer Centre) or other Reproductive Immunologists.

Were you given any reason for your losses?

If you are taking heparin, you need to start it on day one of cycle and probably continue until after birth.

Steroids need to be started from day 1 of cycle and continued for 12 weeks into pregancy.

You may also want to consider genetically testing your embryos via PGD/CGH for a belt and braces approach.

You may also find it beneficial to start a high dose folic/b vt now eg. Folard 2.2 or metanx.

Have you considered finding a new clinic with to get a fresh approach?

I would urge you to investigate further befoe moving ahead although I know how daunting it is.



Best of luck,

Daisy
xxxx
I'm so sorry. I wish I had more time to write this morning, but suffice it to say, I agree with this & other posts re. exploring other issues. I failed 3 fresh DE cycles & 1 FET overall. I now have 2 children from 2 separate FETs. I had success only after becoming a patient of the Beer Center. BTW, other than the 1st fresh DE cycle failure, the rest, including the successes, were with the same donor, so a different donor is removed as a variable for me, which makes me story a bit different.

I wish you the best & I do think you have reason to hope you can succeed with DE. I know how heartbreaking the journey is & to have suffered the losses you did is unspeakable. My heart goes out to you.
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