All bloodwork came back normal

All bloodwork came back normal

futurebeauty
futurebeauty

June 3rd, 2012, 6:29 pm #1

So I am happy to report but still have no idea why I keep miscarrying except bad luck. The only thing left to test is NK cells. The last time I asked, the doc (not my RE but local specialist) told me it was too controversial and unnecessary. I have an appt w/ him tomorrow and will ask again. Does anyone know if you can have NK cells but test normal for all antiphospholipid clotting disorders???

The only thing in my hx that is postive is MTTHF. I spoke w/ my RE last wk and he said that he is willing to put me on lovenox as a prophylactic measure for my next FET which will be in July. Should I insist on anything else?? I am on B6/B12, prenatal and folgard.

Thanks everyone and I still want to do a roll call if someone can help me out.

FB
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demomone
demomone

June 3rd, 2012, 7:01 pm #2

NK cells have nothing to do with APS. Also, after over 10 losses myself, and going to almost 12 docs in the USA and overseas, none of them really believed in the NK theory (other than Sher)..We actually saw a team in England where a study was conducted about NK cells and repeat m/c's. The study showed that even with high circulating uterine NK cells (done by biopsy), there was no evidence of a higher rate of m/c's. That said, we chose not to use any treatment for elevated blood NK cells, which most people do have and vary throughout the course of the day. That translates into, if you take them at 8am, they can be low and if you take them at 3PM on the same day, they can be elevated. Many women do use the treatments for them , just to cover themselves but several doctors told us not to and we put our trust in them. My only successful pregnancy was when I used, lovenox (three blood clotting disorders here), prednisone (10 mgs for one month prior to cycle and 10 weeks after ++), thyroid meds (thyroid meds were increased prior to cycle to speed it up TSH was 0.7 when I started the estrogen, increased after 10 days as TSH was rising with the estrogen, BA (for clotting) and of all of the drugs for the transfer ,pure estrogen (from a company in Texas formulated by a compound pharmacist in NY into supps..these are not available and have to be made), p4, estrogen patches and I think that is it.
You have to be comfortable with the entire process and what you will do when you cycle next.
Good luck.
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demomone
demomone

June 3rd, 2012, 7:01 pm #3

So I am happy to report but still have no idea why I keep miscarrying except bad luck. The only thing left to test is NK cells. The last time I asked, the doc (not my RE but local specialist) told me it was too controversial and unnecessary. I have an appt w/ him tomorrow and will ask again. Does anyone know if you can have NK cells but test normal for all antiphospholipid clotting disorders???

The only thing in my hx that is postive is MTTHF. I spoke w/ my RE last wk and he said that he is willing to put me on lovenox as a prophylactic measure for my next FET which will be in July. Should I insist on anything else?? I am on B6/B12, prenatal and folgard.

Thanks everyone and I still want to do a roll call if someone can help me out.

FB
NK cells have nothing to do with APS. Also, after over 10 losses myself, and going to almost 12 docs in the USA and overseas, none of them really believed in the NK theory (other than Sher)..We actually saw a team in England where a study was conducted about NK cells and repeat m/c's. The study showed that even with high circulating uterine NK cells (done by biopsy), there was no evidence of a higher rate of m/c's. That said, we chose not to use any treatment for elevated blood NK cells, which most people do have and vary throughout the course of the day. That translates into, if you take them at 8am, they can be low and if you take them at 3PM on the same day, they can be elevated. Many women do use the treatments for them , just to cover themselves but several doctors told us not to and we put our trust in them. My only successful pregnancy was when I used, lovenox (three blood clotting disorders here), prednisone (10 mgs for one month prior to cycle and 10 weeks after ++), thyroid meds (thyroid meds were increased prior to cycle to speed it up TSH was 0.7 when I started the estrogen, increased after 10 days as TSH was rising with the estrogen, BA (for clotting) and of all of the drugs for the transfer ,pure estrogen (from a company in Texas formulated by a compound pharmacist in NY into supps..these are not available and have to be made), p4, estrogen patches and I think that is it.
You have to be comfortable with the entire process and what you will do when you cycle next.
Good luck.
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DeeNYC
DeeNYC

June 3rd, 2012, 9:17 pm #4

So I am happy to report but still have no idea why I keep miscarrying except bad luck. The only thing left to test is NK cells. The last time I asked, the doc (not my RE but local specialist) told me it was too controversial and unnecessary. I have an appt w/ him tomorrow and will ask again. Does anyone know if you can have NK cells but test normal for all antiphospholipid clotting disorders???

The only thing in my hx that is postive is MTTHF. I spoke w/ my RE last wk and he said that he is willing to put me on lovenox as a prophylactic measure for my next FET which will be in July. Should I insist on anything else?? I am on B6/B12, prenatal and folgard.

Thanks everyone and I still want to do a roll call if someone can help me out.

FB
Hi,

You can still have elevated NK cells and have normal APS results. I have slightly elevated NK cells but normal APS levels. Unless you do an NK cell assayand other immune testing, it's impossible to know whether you have any immune issue I will say that Lovenox is part of most immune protocols because elevated NK cells can clauses use clotting. Love of may or may not be enough to treat an immune issue, but it may not be. My suggestion would be to go ahead and do a basic imunne protocol that consists of intralipids which are inexpensive, Lovenox and prednisone or dexamethasone. This will not require you to do anymore testing. If that doesn't work, then II would definitely suggest further testing as you may need something other than intralipids such as IVIG or Neupogen. Good luck.
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Joined: July 3rd, 2004, 10:12 pm

June 3rd, 2012, 9:19 pm #5

So I am happy to report but still have no idea why I keep miscarrying except bad luck. The only thing left to test is NK cells. The last time I asked, the doc (not my RE but local specialist) told me it was too controversial and unnecessary. I have an appt w/ him tomorrow and will ask again. Does anyone know if you can have NK cells but test normal for all antiphospholipid clotting disorders???

The only thing in my hx that is postive is MTTHF. I spoke w/ my RE last wk and he said that he is willing to put me on lovenox as a prophylactic measure for my next FET which will be in July. Should I insist on anything else?? I am on B6/B12, prenatal and folgard.

Thanks everyone and I still want to do a roll call if someone can help me out.

FB
I.e. MTHFR. I would absolutely recommend you take lovenox starting from start of next cycle and for whole of pg.

There is a correlation between high nks and APS as it is an autoimmune disease and will affect certain nk levels.

Was DH tested and karyotyped? Did you have full range of tests inc all clotting, thyroid, infection, uterine etc?

D
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Joined: March 31st, 2008, 2:24 pm

June 3rd, 2012, 10:20 pm #6

I found out 2 years ago that I have 2 mutations of MTHFR. After 2 MC I thought we had found the answer. Then I did a consult with DR Kumar and he pointed out to me that I had 2 perfectly normal pregnancies 30 yrs ago with no complications and didn't even know I had MTHFR back then so it couldn't have been a factor, that I was born with this and have had it my whole life. I did struggle the cycle before last with a thin lining after years of great ones (11mm plus) so we tried the estrogen patches this time and got a great lining with alot less mood swings than the pills. I also took prednisone for 30 days beginning 5 days before the transfer. That was the only thing I did differently other than being under Coopers close supervision for the whole time I have been pregnant (currently 9 weeks)I have BW every week and they adjust my patches and PIO accordingly.I will be under thier care until I am 14 weeks and truly think the continueing meds have made a huge difference. This is the first time I have ever gotten pregnant with 3 day embryos and was so unsure of then we put 3 in at transfer.
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Joined: June 5th, 2011, 4:39 pm

June 3rd, 2012, 11:12 pm #7

Hi,

You can still have elevated NK cells and have normal APS results. I have slightly elevated NK cells but normal APS levels. Unless you do an NK cell assayand other immune testing, it's impossible to know whether you have any immune issue I will say that Lovenox is part of most immune protocols because elevated NK cells can clauses use clotting. Love of may or may not be enough to treat an immune issue, but it may not be. My suggestion would be to go ahead and do a basic imunne protocol that consists of intralipids which are inexpensive, Lovenox and prednisone or dexamethasone. This will not require you to do anymore testing. If that doesn't work, then II would definitely suggest further testing as you may need something other than intralipids such as IVIG or Neupogen. Good luck.
Thx You for responding to my post. Please tell me about the intralipid and the prednisone treatment. How should I bring it up tomorrow??

I will do anything not to suffer from another m/c.

TIA,

FB
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Joined: June 5th, 2011, 4:39 pm

June 3rd, 2012, 11:15 pm #8

NK cells have nothing to do with APS. Also, after over 10 losses myself, and going to almost 12 docs in the USA and overseas, none of them really believed in the NK theory (other than Sher)..We actually saw a team in England where a study was conducted about NK cells and repeat m/c's. The study showed that even with high circulating uterine NK cells (done by biopsy), there was no evidence of a higher rate of m/c's. That said, we chose not to use any treatment for elevated blood NK cells, which most people do have and vary throughout the course of the day. That translates into, if you take them at 8am, they can be low and if you take them at 3PM on the same day, they can be elevated. Many women do use the treatments for them , just to cover themselves but several doctors told us not to and we put our trust in them. My only successful pregnancy was when I used, lovenox (three blood clotting disorders here), prednisone (10 mgs for one month prior to cycle and 10 weeks after ++), thyroid meds (thyroid meds were increased prior to cycle to speed it up TSH was 0.7 when I started the estrogen, increased after 10 days as TSH was rising with the estrogen, BA (for clotting) and of all of the drugs for the transfer ,pure estrogen (from a company in Texas formulated by a compound pharmacist in NY into supps..these are not available and have to be made), p4, estrogen patches and I think that is it.
You have to be comfortable with the entire process and what you will do when you cycle next.
Good luck.
It is good to know that APS and NK cells can be a separate diagnosis. I guess I need to be tested to see but per your post the NK cells fluctuate daily and so it does not really tell you much.

I just don't want to suffer from another m/c.

Thanks again,
FB
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Joined: June 5th, 2011, 4:39 pm

June 3rd, 2012, 11:24 pm #9

I.e. MTHFR. I would absolutely recommend you take lovenox starting from start of next cycle and for whole of pg.

There is a correlation between high nks and APS as it is an autoimmune disease and will affect certain nk levels.

Was DH tested and karyotyped? Did you have full range of tests inc all clotting, thyroid, infection, uterine etc?

D
DH and I have both tested normal for karyotype. We have 2 OE kids (7 y/o DD and 4 y/o DS). We had 3 m/c's b/t kids and then we have had 3 m/c's after DS w/ my last one from my DE twins.

I had all my APS testing and thyroid and ANAs. I had everything tested 3 yrs ago as well and everything came back normal except MTTHF.

I had an HSG and hysteroscopy in the last yr. I am so tested out and I have spent so much money on bloodwork and procedures for the past 3 1/2 yr of TTC.

Thanks for you input on this thread and in the past as I used your suggestions that you originally gave to undergo testing.

FB



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Joined: June 5th, 2011, 4:39 pm

June 3rd, 2012, 11:28 pm #10

I found out 2 years ago that I have 2 mutations of MTHFR. After 2 MC I thought we had found the answer. Then I did a consult with DR Kumar and he pointed out to me that I had 2 perfectly normal pregnancies 30 yrs ago with no complications and didn't even know I had MTHFR back then so it couldn't have been a factor, that I was born with this and have had it my whole life. I did struggle the cycle before last with a thin lining after years of great ones (11mm plus) so we tried the estrogen patches this time and got a great lining with alot less mood swings than the pills. I also took prednisone for 30 days beginning 5 days before the transfer. That was the only thing I did differently other than being under Coopers close supervision for the whole time I have been pregnant (currently 9 weeks)I have BW every week and they adjust my patches and PIO accordingly.I will be under thier care until I am 14 weeks and truly think the continueing meds have made a huge difference. This is the first time I have ever gotten pregnant with 3 day embryos and was so unsure of then we put 3 in at transfer.
When I did my fresh transfer back in Dec '11, I was on so much E2 pills and patches and P4 prometrium and crinone as I had an allergic reaction to the PIO. I am sure I will be put on those meds as well during my FET.

Since my m/c in Feb, it has taken about 2-3 months for my body to feel normal again.

Thanks again,
FB
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