Gee Jay
Gee Jay

April 14th, 2017, 9:16 pm #41

All the censuses (1900 thru 1940) list Martin & Mary as "Aliens". I believe they never applied for US citizenship. I could not find their arrival in the USA anywhere. .The National Archives would not have any records in regard to same. There is a researcher on this site named "Zemaitis" who will do research in Lithuania at a cost. Writing to Lithuania with specific info, surname, place of birth, is a long shot. By the way, Margaret 'ZINKAITCH" married John J Kurila on 24 Feb 1935 in Kings Co NY. Regards, Carl J aka "Cee Jay" LOL.
I agree that they probably never applied for citizenship and I couldn't find any immigration records either. I took their census report of the date, and the reason I thought it was relevant for someone doing a search in Lithuania is that there's no point for them to search in any dates past the time they departed. ;)

After I wrote my last post I found this interesting page.

http://www.genealogywise.com/forum/topi ... 3#comments

My own family got some good info from the Lithuanian Archives by sending something similar to what I suggested. However, we did this back in the 80s or early 90s, before a lot of the current genealogy craze and turnaround was very reasonable. It sounds as though the turnaround time is now quite long.

Be sure to read the comments on the first two pages also.

It's a shame there's no way to post images here as I would like to be able to show the information my family received. We were thrilled when we got it.

Quote
Share

vancevisuals
vancevisuals

April 15th, 2017, 12:25 am #42

will check out
thanks Gee Jay

Fred
Quote
Share

Jankauskas
Jankauskas

April 15th, 2017, 7:32 pm #43

Fred, 1892 Census Brooklyn, New York: Martin "Cencarwitch" 25, wife Mary 19 Both born in Poland. Son Joseph 1yr born in USA. I think this is your Martin & Mary "Sinkevich". Apparently Joseph died prior to 1900. Carl J
Quote
Share

Gee Jay
Gee Jay

April 15th, 2017, 7:52 pm #44

greatgrandfather was Martin
Greatgrandmother was Mary
Grandfather was Martin and/or Anton
Brother was Charles
Sister was Margaret and/or Maggie
I came back to this earlier part of the thread because it expanded so far off to the left!

I started looking at some of the hard copies I have from some of my Lithuanian family records and found some information that made me laugh. I thought I'd share it with you because you've had so much trouble getting the facts straight regarding your own family.

My father has been doing genealogy for many decades, and one of the things he taught me was to assume that the birth dates given in the earliest years were the most likely to be correct. That is, a person was more likely to be truthful about his or her age when s/he was pretty young. Later in life there was a tendency to say one was younger.

Anyway, today I was looking at the marriage record of my grandmother and her first husband. She says she's 18 and he says he's 23. I know for a fact that she was 19 and I'm pretty sure he was at least 25! So much for the idea of telling the truth about their ages when they're young! (It was an arranged marriage which is probably the reason they were able to get away with lying to each other.)

I was also looking at the first husband's death certificate. He died in 1925, and the certificate says he was the owner of a "soft drink parlor." This made me laugh, because he owned a bar! But I guess during Prohibition even the county clerk told discreet lies.

I hope this gives you a good chuckle.
Quote
Share

vancevisuals
vancevisuals

April 16th, 2017, 7:04 pm #45

Fred, 1892 Census Brooklyn, New York: Martin "Cencarwitch" 25, wife Mary 19 Both born in Poland. Son Joseph 1yr born in USA. I think this is your Martin & Mary "Sinkevich". Apparently Joseph died prior to 1900. Carl J
If this is my greatgrandparents that puts them in this country at the "right" time.
Will try and use this "C" spelling to try and locate those "elusive" immagration records.
Let you know if I find anything.
Thanks Carl, Happy Easter

Fred
Quote
Share

vancevisuals
vancevisuals

April 16th, 2017, 9:58 pm #46

I came back to this earlier part of the thread because it expanded so far off to the left!

I started looking at some of the hard copies I have from some of my Lithuanian family records and found some information that made me laugh. I thought I'd share it with you because you've had so much trouble getting the facts straight regarding your own family.

My father has been doing genealogy for many decades, and one of the things he taught me was to assume that the birth dates given in the earliest years were the most likely to be correct. That is, a person was more likely to be truthful about his or her age when s/he was pretty young. Later in life there was a tendency to say one was younger.

Anyway, today I was looking at the marriage record of my grandmother and her first husband. She says she's 18 and he says he's 23. I know for a fact that she was 19 and I'm pretty sure he was at least 25! So much for the idea of telling the truth about their ages when they're young! (It was an arranged marriage which is probably the reason they were able to get away with lying to each other.)

I was also looking at the first husband's death certificate. He died in 1925, and the certificate says he was the owner of a "soft drink parlor." This made me laugh, because he owned a bar! But I guess during Prohibition even the county clerk told discreet lies.

I hope this gives you a good chuckle.
It certainly does.
while I realize that record was much more "casual" then it is today, I never realized HOW CASUAL.
Not that it probably would have mattered but it would have been nice to the same spelling of my family name on more than one document/report (16 and counting).
I do wonder how much of it was "white lies" and how much was the people recording the information.
It has been a fascinating study of, not only my own family, but a history on how record keeping was in the late 19th and first half the 20th century.
I've always been a great study of Baseball history and records can be sparatic the further back you go but, compared to this, they are downright spot on.
very interesting
happy Easter!

Fred
Quote
Share

Gee Jay
Gee Jay

April 18th, 2017, 7:49 pm #47

I think there were a lot of reasons for the rather casual data collection of names and dates. 1) The people being counted in the census may not have been literate in the first place and may not have known how to spell their names. So the census taker wrote down whatever phonetic spelling made sense to him.
2) They may have been from a part of Lithuania where records were kept in Russian, and what little reading and writing they knew might have been in the Russian alphabet. As you may know, Russian doesn't use the same character set that English uses, and they might not have known how to translate the Russian letters into English equivalents.
3) For Lithuanian Catholics, records were in Latin and names were transcribed in their Latin equivalent. There were no birth, marriage, or death certificates. For Christians, the church made records of baptisms, marriages, and burials. There were no civil records, only religious ones. (For Lithuanian Jews, records were in Hebrew and made by the rabbi.)
4) As people still sometimes do when their country is occupied by another country, I know Lithuanians living in Europe tried to fit in or "pass" by Russian-izing or Polish-izing their surnames.
5) The purpose of the census wasn't really genealogical -- it was for statistical, political, or research purposes. The census taker's job probably wasn't really to get the names spelled exactly right -- it was to count noses.
6) The concept of a "legal name" is a relatively new one. In some less developed countries, there's still no such thing as a legal name.
7) These days we have lots of things with our names on them -- bills, drivers' licenses, credit cards, etc. In the 1800s, people didn't have such documents and didn't carry around papers that had their names on them.

Basically, until the fairly recent past your name was what your family called you and what you called yourself. Period.
Quote
Share

vancevisuals
vancevisuals

April 18th, 2017, 9:14 pm #48

I agree with evrything you said, Gee Jay, I just find it an interesting study. It does leave me with a dilemma though as I have, no less, than 16 different spellings of my name as to which (I know I can give them all) to pass along to the Lithuanian National Archives if I do that. Sounds like at this point, even if they found anything,it would not be definitive answer. At least my Lithuanian heritage has been confirmed, which I am happy about.
I also know about thye time my father's family came to America and I have a LOT of choices to choose from on how to spell my name (bad joke).
Have to admit, it's been fascinating and I've learned so much about, both my own, and Lithuanian history since I've started this search.
And I did read that, you are correct that HOW you said somebody's name was more important than how you spelled it. I can live with that (not that I'm stopping here or anything).
Hope you had a nice holiday

Fred
Quote
Share

Jankauskas
Jankauskas

April 19th, 2017, 5:14 pm #49

Fred, Maggie Zinkewitch b, 1898 d. 28 Aug 1898 Brooklyn, New York residence 156 Berry St. (Same address as Martin and Mary in the 1900 Census). Parents Martin & Maria Zinkewitch, Buried 29 Aug 1899 Most Holy Trinity Cemetery - Brooklyn, New York. (675 Central Ave - tel 718 894-4888). In the 1900 Census Mary stated she had 5 children and 2 are still alive (Katie & John), This fits in with the deaths of Joseph and Maggie plus one other. The cemetery may have more info on the Zinkewich/Zinkewich, etc family. I still think Sinkevicius or Zinkevicius is the true Lithuanian surname, Carl J
Quote
Share

vancevisuals
vancevisuals

April 20th, 2017, 1:17 am #50

It does fit
I was thinking as they were not very young when they came to America that there was a child or two perhaps born in Europe and died before they came to America however, things being what they were back then, that would not be in line with their marriage date (a year after they came over) so this makes more sense.
Thanks Carl

Fred
Quote
Share