Joined: April 28th, 2008, 6:13 pm

June 20th, 2009, 4:41 am #21

Okay, so you're Dick Brodhead, Larry Moneta, and Dean Sue.
You initially believe the student LAX players that not only was
there no rape, there was no sex.

Kim's 911 call and Ryan's email are enough to change your mind?
(Were these the facts that kept changing?)

You have a PhD and you're a professor at a world-renown academic institution,
but you were duped by the likes of Gottlieb who doesn't even have a college degree?

Exactly how do Kim's 911 call and Ryan's email indicate that a rape occurred?

Baldo's 7/20/2014 all-encompassing summary statement about the Duke Lacrosse case:
"He (Gottlieb) was a dirty cop in a dirty department run by corrupt Politicians with incompetent judges and a dirty DA's Office under the control of a dirty dirty dirty DA Nifong who used for the most part, not all, a bunch of cowardly reporters & a DUMC which failed to correct a runaway nurse & others."
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Joined: May 2nd, 2008, 2:51 pm

June 20th, 2009, 10:05 am #22

sceptical wrote:
chatham wrote:When crystal was taken to the Durham Access Center, it has been claimed that a nurse asked crystal directly if she had been raped. Does anyone know the name of that nurse? Could she be a friend of crystals? Did she know Cy? Why would this nurse directly violate the Durham access policy?
http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2006/04/ ... eline.html

The accuser interacted with at least three Durham Access Center staff members: Alycia Wright, Meriecia Smith, and Gerri Lomuriel Wilkes. In response to a question from one of those staff members, accuser initially alleged that she was raped. DPD event logs indicate that accuser was at the Durham Access Center for 40 minutes. Ms. Wilkes told Kirk Osborn that she took handwritten notes of her observations.
Thanks a lot Sceptical.
Some Worlds are Small. Some Egos are Big.
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Joined: April 30th, 2008, 4:11 pm

June 20th, 2009, 12:18 pm #23

MikeZPU wrote:Okay, so you're Dick Brodhead, Larry Moneta, and Dean Sue.
You initially believe the student LAX players that not only was
there no rape, there was no sex.

Kim's 911 call and Ryan's email are enough to change your mind?
(Were these the facts that kept changing?)

You have a PhD and you're a professor at a world-renown academic institution,
but you were duped by the likes of Gottlieb who doesn't even have a college degree?

Exactly how do Kim's 911 call and Ryan's email indicate that a rape occurred?
In retrospect, it is easy to say this. But at the time, there was what I have called the law enforcement equivalent of the "fog of battle."
There was a lot of confusion, rumors, and bad information.

There were some people, inlcuding myself at first, who thought that some sort of assault, not necessarily rape, could have happened. This was before a lot of the facts were known.

I do not necessarily agree that the Duke officials believed the lacrosse players. Deserved or not, the lacrosse players had a reputation for rowdy behavior and parties. (Of course, not much different than other teams or fraternities at Duke). Those PC administrators at Duke would have thought such a claim of would be possible. There was certainly a lot of hostility towards the players from the Duke faculty and administration, so much so that they were cited in the motion for change of venue.
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Joined: April 28th, 2008, 6:13 pm

June 20th, 2009, 2:08 pm #24

sceptical wrote:
MikeZPU wrote:Okay, so you're Dick Brodhead, Larry Moneta, and Dean Sue.
You initially believe the student LAX players that not only was
there no rape, there was no sex.

Kim's 911 call and Ryan's email are enough to change your mind?
(Were these the facts that kept changing?)

You have a PhD and you're a professor at a world-renown academic institution,
but you were duped by the likes of Gottlieb who doesn't even have a college degree?

Exactly how do Kim's 911 call and Ryan's email indicate that a rape occurred?
In retrospect, it is easy to say this. But at the time, there was what I have called the law enforcement equivalent of the "fog of battle."
There was a lot of confusion, rumors, and bad information.

There were some people, inlcuding myself at first, who thought that some sort of assault, not necessarily rape, could have happened. This was before a lot of the facts were known.

I do not necessarily agree that the Duke officials believed the lacrosse players. Deserved or not, the lacrosse players had a reputation for rowdy behavior and parties. (Of course, not much different than other teams or fraternities at Duke). Those PC administrators at Duke would have thought such a claim of would be possible. There was certainly a lot of hostility towards the players from the Duke faculty and administration, so much so that they were cited in the motion for change of venue.
I understand what you are saying, and I realize that hindsight is 20-20.

When I think of Brodhead during those early days and weeks, I picture the epitome of a "deer in the headlights."

But even as time went on, Brodhead said a number of things (e.g.,
"the facts kept changing") that give me the impression that he is not
as smart as you would think the president of a world renown academic institution should be
OR maybe his PC-ism clouds his judgement -- I don't know.

I thought I read where Dean Sue initially believed the LAX players' story, Moneta too.
I admit I that I don't think I've read anything indicating what Brodhead's initial impression was.
Baldo's 7/20/2014 all-encompassing summary statement about the Duke Lacrosse case:
"He (Gottlieb) was a dirty cop in a dirty department run by corrupt Politicians with incompetent judges and a dirty DA's Office under the control of a dirty dirty dirty DA Nifong who used for the most part, not all, a bunch of cowardly reporters & a DUMC which failed to correct a runaway nurse & others."
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Joined: May 1st, 2008, 2:43 pm

June 20th, 2009, 3:15 pm #25

sceptical, congratulations.
This sort of chronology underlies all the best scholarship.
In 2004 Duke needed someone who could deal deftly with tough, gnarled issues whether aesthetic, intellectual, social, or political, someone capable of rising up in extraordinary circumstances and by God doing the right thing, right then, out of experience, powerful instinct, or innate majesty of soul. Duke got Richard H. Brodhead. If Brodhead was fit to be President of Duke University, Peter Wood, Cohan's informant, belonged at Duke too.
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cks
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 1:17 pm

June 20th, 2009, 3:16 pm #26

I find it difficult to believe that no one at Duke thought to ask the second obvious question (the first being do you think a rape actually ccurred) which would be what color was the accuser. I also find it difficult to believe that that piece of information was not given at the same time that information was relayed about the incident at 610 Buchanan. Given that Durham has a large African-American population, and given that with one exception the lacrosse team was composed of whites, would it not cross anyone's mind (in the Duke administration) that they might have a potential racial timebomb ticking away? But of course, that would assume that there are people with some brains in the Duke administrative hierarchy.

:SarC:
Last edited by cks on June 20th, 2009, 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Math is for people who cannot do history.
"Sapias, vina liques, et spatio brevispem longam resces." (Be wise, strain the wine, and since life is brief, prune back far reaching hopes.) - Horace
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Joined: April 28th, 2008, 4:46 pm

June 20th, 2009, 3:55 pm #27

IMHO - The Duke PD knew what was happening. Read Ekstrand's lawsuit. Some Duke police officers were ordered to change their accounts to suit the meta-narrative.

Investigator Jone's was going to close the case. Why didn't she? Why would you pass off an investigation to a known cop who had just been transferred out of the beat because he was harassing Duke students?

Duke PD & DPD knew there was no assault. Why would Investigator Jones say they were going to close the case? Why would a trained female investigator go out on a limb on March 14 over a sexual assault? Because she knew it was False. Sgt Shelton was right.

I have always suspected the Hoax/Frame started on March 14. I see no reason to doubt that.

Why? "Orders" is the most likely answer.


Last edited by Baldo on June 20th, 2009, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is about the truth
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Joined: May 2nd, 2008, 2:51 pm

June 20th, 2009, 5:05 pm #28

Baldo says: Why? "Orders" is the most likely answer.

My point that I have been making all along. There was an agreement between Durham and Duke to solve the TP complaint problem. As soon as the right person or persons found out that crystal was at a party in TP and made some crock statements, KABOOM, the orders came down and the plan when into effect. Duke did not need to know the color of the woman, although they probably did.. The immediate public perception of this case was just an assault or something happening at a party. It was not that. It was a stripper party with no other ladies present, it was not just a late night party. If the immediate public perception was a stripper crying rape or assault, not many would have cared.
Some Worlds are Small. Some Egos are Big.
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Joined: April 28th, 2008, 5:12 pm

June 20th, 2009, 8:18 pm #29

Congratulations Sceptical.This marks three major posts in a row.
I truly appreciate the major amount of scholarship with which you have gifted us.
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Joined: January 8th, 2009, 5:28 pm

June 20th, 2009, 8:29 pm #30

chatham wrote:Baldo says: Why? "Orders" is the most likely answer.

My point that I have been making all along. There was an agreement between Durham and Duke to solve the TP complaint problem. As soon as the right person or persons found out that crystal was at a party in TP and made some crock statements, KABOOM, the orders came down and the plan when into effect. Duke did not need to know the color of the woman, although they probably did.. The immediate public perception of this case was just an assault or something happening at a party. It was not that. It was a stripper party with no other ladies present, it was not just a late night party. If the immediate public perception was a stripper crying rape or assault, not many would have cared.
Are you all saying that Duke and Durham intended to solve the party problem by giving the next kids who fell into their clutches.... lengthy prison sentences? Are you saying they decided this BEFORE?

That is something I have trouble with.
NEVER NORDSTROM


It's not dementia...
It's an IPad on auto-correct.
NOT ME POSTING ON THE TREEHOUSE.
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