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He Jin

Zantam03
Elite Soldier
Zantam03
Elite Soldier
Joined: November 29th, 2010, 1:41 pm

January 2nd, 2017, 11:15 am #1

Hi all,

I noticed He Jin didn't have his own topic yet. I think of him as an interesting man and wonder how different things wouldve went had he survived the eunuch's assassination. I've recently had some help translating his official biography. I think this is the first ever translation of his official biography.

The original Chinese biography of He Jin is in the History of the Later Han (Hou Han shu) chapter 69:

http://threekingdoms.wikia.com/wiki/His ... E5%8D%B769

And the translation is here:

http://threekingdoms.wikia.com/wiki/He_ ... 5%E9%80%B2

a note though: some of the sentences may look familiar to the avid 3K fan. After translating the whole bio, sentences were compared to those of other already translated works by, for example, Carl Leban and Rafe de Crespigny, and replaced almost literally with those, if they indeed seemed to be a direct translation of the HHS. This was done because their English is better than ours hehe... and because they know much better how to translate ranks and titles.

My personal thoughts on He Jin:

Contrary to what the novel (and Koei) make him out to be, I regard him as a solid leader, capable of leading larger groups of officers, but perhaps not able to rule as, for example, regent. When he entered the palace he received probabionary titles. If he had an INT of 5, as Koei suggests, would he haved climbed up the way he did? He was also liked among his fellows. A man of low background, rapidly climbing up the rankings to the highest position (thus passing men of higher background) would usually result in jealousy or animosity. But nothing like this ever seemed to have happened.

Achievements of He Jin
*Discovered the plot of Ma Yuanyi to cause an uprising in Luoyang.
*Succesfully defended Luoyang during the Yellow Turban Rebellion by appointing men, repairing various equipment, and purging the palace of Yellow Turbans, succesfully sniffing them out till none remained.
*Saved Wang Yun from execution.
*Recommended the talented Dong Fu.
*Killed the Colonel of the First Army Jian Shi. Though He Jin is often described as indecisive, his indecisiveness actually helped him this time, as Jian Shi now made the first move to kill He Jin, but failed, and proof of it fell in He's hands. He had all the rights to execute him. A "free kill" for He.
*By executing Jian Shi, the Western Garden corps, consisting of men such as Yuan Shao and Chunyu Qiong, now belonged to He Jin.

Some say it's He Jin's fault Dong Zhuo took over the capital, but if He Jin survived, this would not have happened imo.
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ThisIsMyUsername
Tiger General
Joined: September 6th, 2016, 7:36 pm

January 2nd, 2017, 8:36 pm #2

I'm all for a Han faction for the DW games. I've always wanted He Jin to be added to the roster anyway. Huangfu Song as well.
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Zantam03
Elite Soldier
Zantam03
Elite Soldier
Joined: November 29th, 2010, 1:41 pm

January 2nd, 2017, 10:40 pm #3

I'd like it too, but I wonder if they can create enough new faces. He Jin, Huangfu Song, Zhu Jun and Lu Zhi are typical Han faces, but they all died about the time of Dong Zhuo's reign, participating only in 2 or 3 battles.
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Xu Yuan
Han's Unifier
Xu Yuan
Han's Unifier
Joined: February 12th, 2007, 2:12 am

January 5th, 2017, 1:59 am #4

I was always on the fence about He Jin. I think Yuan Shao and He Jin calling in the regional lords to deal with the eunuchs was the most bone-headed action of the era, has any step like this ever succeeded? The fellow who argued against it, saying that it's akin to calling in foxes to watch after a chicken coop had the right idea. The nobles had enough troops to contain the eunuchs.

Where could they run and who would be loyal to them? The vast majority of the Empire reviled them and they had no power base outside of the Capital. Aside from this misstep I feel he was too indecisive, but as you noted this did help him at one point so maybe he thought that if he stayed low that his opportunity would present itself. Unfortunately he miscalculated the lengths that the eunuchs would go. Though I am always shocked that the eunuchs who were pretty intelligent and crafty fellows somehow thought that slaying the Regent would somehow end well for them. They had no plans in place other than to flee for their lives.

All in all, I respect He Jin for what he accomplished. He was a commoner by birth but everyone looked up to and admired him. Even Yuan Shao and Cao Cao, despite coming from clans of great prominence bowed their heads towards him without a word of complaint. We also see that his troops loved him, which a weak-willed and unintelligent man would not have been able to accomplish, either being condescending or abusive towards them or allowing his soldiers to step all over him.

Huangfu Song I feel has the best potential for being put into DW. He could fight in the Yellow Turban Rebellion, the Liang Rebellion, Revolt of the Ten Eunuchs, Battle of Hu Lao Gate (on Dong Zhuo's side) and assisting in Wang Yun's plot. Huangfu Song could be portrayed as the "Most Honorable Man in the Land" but this is a double edged sword as it doesn't allow him to act in the dynasty's best interest, but only in the "proper" manner. This is based off of history where he is offered the chance to take control of Luoyang by a high advisor to the Emperor, but he refuses out of reasons of propriety and thus Dong Zhuo becomes the new ruler. Huangfu Song has several opportunities to use his influence to mitigate the damage Dong Zhuo would do, but doesn't want to damage his honor so he refuses, leading to him only taking action when Wang Yun orders it.
If you're looking for some Romance of the Three Kingdoms Roleplay, the classic SimRTK is running a test scenario, why not give it a look over? It is in the Simzhou forum branch.

http://simrtk.net/index.php
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Kizan Strike
First Lieutenant
Joined: August 16th, 2016, 7:22 am

January 5th, 2017, 6:13 am #5

Thanks for posting this and sharing this information with us all. And yeah it interesting to think what kind of history would of turn out if things went the other way for him and just about anyone in the 3K.
"I'm sure I can find better ways to spend my time." - Sima Zhao
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Dongzhou
Emperor's Retainer
Dongzhou
Emperor's Retainer
Joined: May 31st, 2008, 9:01 am

January 5th, 2017, 6:52 am #6

Thank you for this

Interesting the conclusion and HHS comment, one positive, one negative. For me, I thought He Jin was an able politician, he was able to outmanoeuvre his foes, he acted as a focal point for the gentry faction, used talent. He lacked confidence/ruthlessness to destroy the eunuchs and had he won, I think he only slows the Han decline.

I have always liked the awe of eunuchs line
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Yuki-Onna
God of War
Joined: July 28th, 2014, 12:02 am

January 5th, 2017, 7:21 am #7

He Jin was definitely way more competent than KOEI suggests in their games. But I do agree with Xu Yuan that his idea to call in the armies of frontier generals to resolve disorder in the capital was incredibly disastrous for the Han.
Thanks for the sig Hazarapatish
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Zantam03
Elite Soldier
Zantam03
Elite Soldier
Joined: November 29th, 2010, 1:41 pm

January 5th, 2017, 3:25 pm #8

thanks for the positive reactions. I think I will do more of these biographies from the History of the Latern Han. Probably one of Huangfu Song, Zhu Jun or Lu Zhi.
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JMSA
Emperor's Retainer
Joined: March 31st, 2014, 11:48 pm

February 25th, 2017, 2:44 pm #9

King of Jordan wrote:He Jin was definitely way more competent than KOEI suggests in their games. But I do agree with Xu Yuan that his idea to call in the armies of frontier generals to resolve disorder in the capital was incredibly disastrous for the Han.
I know this is pretty obvious but sometimes people forget: Koei games are based on the games are based on the novel.

There are several officers who are massively upgraded or downgraded because of it. Luckily, current Koei games come with an editor and we can pretty edit whatever we want. No more hex editing which is also a shame since we can't make scenarios anymore...
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Xu Yuan
Han's Unifier
Xu Yuan
Han's Unifier
Joined: February 12th, 2007, 2:12 am

February 25th, 2017, 8:15 pm #10

This is where the difficulties lie. In older RTK games He Jin was portrayed as a "thinker" or "ruminator". Compare the portrait of RTKVIII of He Jin where he had respectable stats and skills with his "I ate two other He Jins." appearance in RTK XIII.

http://gamestopplus.com/Image/covers/ro ... 978229.jpg

http://www.koeitecmoamerica.com/rtk13/i ... kashin.jpg

It's likethe artist suddenly just really hated He Jin after XI. He Jin's stats in IX, X, XI are rather low but in VII and VIII they're respectable.
If you're looking for some Romance of the Three Kingdoms Roleplay, the classic SimRTK is running a test scenario, why not give it a look over? It is in the Simzhou forum branch.

http://simrtk.net/index.php
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