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Paragon of Light
Right General
Joined: June 24th, 2010, 5:56 pm

May 3rd, 2011, 3:56 pm #11

Like Dongzhou said, shu and wu would need like a commander with huge talents in all areas including military and civil duites and coorinate attacks several thousands of kilometers apart. (Hanzhong, jing, xiangyang, hefei, shouchan) Rarely have we seen men with that type of ability and with all the talent shu and wu had, none of them or even if the emperors were decentj and their kingdoms were at their peak.

THe only way I could see either wu or shu winning is that if lets said the war of 8 princes or the wu hu uprising or the xiongnu invasion happened eariler than what actually happened in history and they have to wait Wei/Jin out but that would of been decades pretty much.
http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/direct ... nunciation (For those wondering about dw7 pronunciations)

Jin wishlist:
The virtuous pious man more so than Liu Bei Yang Hu
The zuozhuan addict Du Yu
Unifer and Sex addict Sima Yan as the last one

Yang Hu biography( http://steve8988.homestead.com/files/sgz/yang_hu.pdf )

Willing to join any koei family any takers :D anyone?????? guess not :(

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Dongzhou
Emperor's Retainer
Dongzhou
Emperor's Retainer
Joined: May 31st, 2008, 9:01 am

May 4th, 2011, 9:20 am #12

Again I agree with that. Bar an exceptional commander being around, the best chance Wu and Shu have for a long time would simply be to hand on till Wei/Jin fell apart. That though was always going to be a difficult ask.
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Spangler225
First Lieutenant
Joined: August 21st, 2009, 9:19 am

May 5th, 2011, 8:18 pm #13

If only Shu was focused on the defensive instead of offensive. I guess they thought if Wei was allowed time, they could gather a large army. But Shu's advantage was the mountainous land and all the large gates defending their capital. They had Mian Zhu, Yang Ping, Jian Ge, among many other gates in their territory. Wu's advantage was the chang jiang around most of their land. Wei had an overall advantage of land mass and capable generals.
"The mighty warriors of Shu will never surrender to the dogs of Wu." (Fu Tong)
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Sakon Shima
General
Joined: October 17th, 2011, 4:31 pm

November 8th, 2011, 1:27 pm #14

Agree. In later campaigns, Shu was too focused on the offence, not the deffend. Their supply unit was not enough, and other problems. Sima Yi made a really wise choice to wait Zhuge Liang to die then attack Shu.
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Dongzhou
Emperor's Retainer
Dongzhou
Emperor's Retainer
Joined: May 31st, 2008, 9:01 am

November 8th, 2011, 1:42 pm #15

Sima Yi never attacked Shu?
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Ero-Sennin
First Lieutenant
Joined: August 18th, 2010, 3:39 am

May 15th, 2012, 2:26 am #16

I believe the only thing close to Sima Yi 'attacking' was him ordering Cao Zhen to try and invade Shu, not sure if I'm wrong or not on that, so don't quote me on that.
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Hero of Chaos
Emperor's Retainer
Hero of Chaos
Emperor's Retainer
Joined: November 11th, 2007, 11:40 am

May 15th, 2012, 4:49 pm #17

I think Cao Zhen was Wei's Commander at that time and it was his idea to attack Shu, so it'd be Cao Zhen's doing in the end and not Sima Yi's. They did lead the counter campaign, but the rain prevented them from accessing Hanzhong so it had to be called off. Still, Zhuge Liang was alive back then.
Sakon Shima probably meant it as theory, that it was Sima Yi's idea to not attack Shu until Zhuge Liang died, not that he actually did attack Shu.
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Asiansensation
Soldier
Joined: May 16th, 2012, 1:45 am

May 17th, 2012, 1:16 am #18

@Spangler225

It is true that Wu lost more able officers without replacements, but consider their actual kingdom as a group. Shu had large families of the Liu,Guan, Zhang,Zhuge,Huang, and others. Wu had a few such as the Sun,Ding,Lu,Ling, and a couple others. My point is that Shu had families to replace fallen officers while Wu had a smaller choice of talented officers. Wei had A LOT of families, most of Wei was families. Cao,Sima,Xu,Guo,Xiahou, Zhang, and many more loyal officers.

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Deleted User
Deleted User

September 23rd, 2012, 11:08 pm #19

Wu, of course. they lost
Zhou yu
Sun Ce
Lu Meng
Gan Ning(?)
Sun Jian
And many more. Im certain Shu lost fewer than Wu.
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Ero-Sennin
First Lieutenant
Joined: August 18th, 2010, 3:39 am

September 24th, 2012, 9:54 am #20

Sun Jian wouldn't count, as he was never apart of Wu.

Personally, what later era are we talking here? Post Wu Zhang, or what?
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