Understanding the Trackernet images

"We need an official inquiry - now. Not a whitewash inquiry like Lord Hutton's. Or a punch-pulling inquiry like Lord Butler's. But an inquiry run by plain Mr or Mrs somebody." - Lt. Col. Crispin Black
An independent, public discussion, analysis and inquiry into the events of July 7th.

Understanding the Trackernet images

Joined: Nov 25 2005, 11:41 AM

Dec 1 2005, 10:24 PM #1

In the wake of the events of 7 July, Transport For London released six TrackerNet images reported to show the positions of the affected trains at the time of the explosions:

From the TFL press release:
Six images are available in the News Centre. The first three images show the sequence of train movements prior to and including the explosion at Aldgate. The remaining three show the sequence of train movements prior to and including the explosion at Edgware Road.  (Source:  TFL)
These images, which are still referred to in the original Transport For London press release from whence they came, although the link from the press release has been removed, 'disappeared' from the Transport for London Image Gallery.

Luckily, I had copies of the images which I had downloaded to examine in greater detail when the time and inclination arose. As a result, the TrackerNet images can be found here: http://antagonise.blogspot.com/2005/09/ ... mages.html

You are advised to click each image and download each of the six high-resolution images as the level of detail is far greater than in the downsized versions.


Additional TrackerNet Deconstruction Info
According to the Department of Transport, the bombed trains left King's Cross at the following times:
- the Eastbound Circle line train (204) left King's Cross at 08:35.
- the Westbound Circle line train (216) left King's Cross at 08:42
- the Piccadilly Line train south left King's Cross at 08:48
"
Source: The Train Times From Kings X - at last!
One version of events from the Government Office for London whose information comes, they advise us, from the Metropolitan Police:
Government Offfice For london
Update: Terrorist Attacks on the Capital
Published: 08/07/05
-------------------------------

The following details have been provided by the Metropolitan Police as an outline of events on Thursday 7 July 2005.

* At 08.15 on 7 July there was an explosion in a train carriage 100 yards from Liverpool Street Sation.

* At 08.56 there was another incident as Kings Cross/ Russell Square. Both stations were used to bring out casualties. At Kings Cross there were 7 confirmed fatalities, 10 people seriously injured and 100 walking wounded.

* At 09.17 there was an explosion on a train coming into Edgeware Road underground station approximately 100 yards into the tunnel. Five fatalities were confirmed.

* At 09.47 a bus exploded at Upper Woburn Sqaure junction with Tavistock Place. At present the number of fatalities has not been confirmed.

Source:  Government Office for London
Another version of events, involving the Hammersmith & City Line, not the Circle Line as it apparently later transpired to be, from Transport For London.
Transport for London
Update: 14:25 - 7 July2005

Latest information confirms that there were four incidents on London's transport network this morning, three on London Underground and one on London Buses.

At 09:46 the London Underground was suspended and all stations commenced evacuation following incidents at:

* Aldgate station heading towards Liverpool Street station on the Hammersmith & City line;

* Russell Square station heading towards Kings Cross station on the Piccadilly line;

* Edgware Road station heading towards Paddington station on the Hammersmith & City line

Source: Transport For London
Regarding the order of Circle Line trains:
"Trains 201 to 207 run clockwise round the Circle. They should be in order - that is, if you stay on one platform you should see 201 arrive, then 202 (perhaps with non-Circle trains between), then 203, and so on. They originate from various places in the 05:00 to 06:00 timescale. They don't start from the depot in numerical order; rather, they will have starting times and initial moves to get them into order. Trains 211 to 217 run anti-clockwise in the same way.

[Note 2*0*x for the *O*uter track and 2*1*x for the *I*nner track.]"

Source: Clive D.W. Feather, creator and maintainer of Clive's UndergrounD Line Guides
From a TFL press conference where Tim O'Toole talked the assembled audience through what the TrackerNet images show:
CNN SATURDAY MORNING NEWS

Hurricane Dennis Reaches Category Two Status; London Begins Invesitgation and Recovery

Aired July 9, 2005 - 7:00 ET

.......

TIM O'TOOLE, M.D.: Thank you very much.

If you'll indulge me, I would like to thank the staff of the London underground and London buses for the fact that the day following the incident, we were up running full service at first light. I think it's a great tribute to those people and I'm thrilled to work with them.

I'm going to take you through some technical data.

You'll recall when I was with you the other day, I said it was our perception that these things were within three minutes of each other, but that conflicted with other reports. I think it would have been impossible at that time for all parties to come to the same conclusion because the sources of information were so varied and it took time for us to all sit down and interrogate the data together before we could come to firm conclusions.

I will also say that while I'm going to show you some software that we use on the underground, and it's that software that reveals the times, we have also interrogated our power electrical systems. And the readout from those systems corroborate the information I'm going to give you. So we're quite confident in these data.

This is a picture of the Circle Line and the first train at Aldgate. And we believe it exploded -- the bomb on that train exploded maybe seconds ahead of the others. You'll see the incident train. This train, 204, can you see it on the top? It's the outer rail.

These tracks, they're going up to your right. Now that would be going out the District Line. So what this train wants to do is to go around the circle, all right?

So -- if you'll move to the next picture -- you can see the train has moved from Margate to Liverpool Street. It will have discharged passengers and picked them up and you'll notice if you go to the next one, the incident. Right there.

You can see what has happened is the track circuits on all of those other lines, you can see the orange lines indicate that an event has occurred to trip out the power system. And that was almost certainly the blast. And this software allows us to confirm the timings.

If you would go to the next. This is the Edgware Road site and you can see now we're looking for train 216, which you can see up on your right at the top leaving the station at Baker Street.

Field move forward.

All right, now, 216 has made its way down to Edgware Road at the platform. Now, if you'll -- now, one thing I want to explain, now 216 has moved forward and right opposite is a train, you'll see, it's 000. That is not the number of that train, but it's a -- it's the limitation of the software. It does not pick up, from that part of the track, the number of that train. But this is the other train that was impacted, that was affected by the explosions and the blast.

And it is undoubtedly the fact that this other train was on -- opposite 216 that caused the reports for people to say that there had been a derailment, that the train had hit the tunnel wall. What they were experiencing was the, really, the blow back, the feedback of the bomb on 216 hitting the train on the other track.

We don't have pictures of the Piccadilly incident, but we do know, as I said from our electronics systems, that almost at this exact same moment, the tunnel telephone wires went. And when they go out, they immediately trip out the traction current. And so we can see that an event happened at this exact same time. And, as I say, as we've done -- looked at the readouts from the traction current system, it corroborates this story.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... mn.01.html
Quoting from the rather resourceful powersurge77 over at Team8Plus Forum:
On 7/7 Transport for London were saying:

14:25 Transport for London Update

Latest information confirms that there were four incidents on London's transport network this morning, three on London Underground and one on London Buses.

At 09:46, the London Underground was suspended and all stations commenced evacuation following incidents at:

* Aldgate station heading towards Liverpool Street station on the Hammersmith & City line;
* Russell Square station heading towards Kings Cross station on the Piccadilly line;
* Edgware Road station heading towards Paddington station on the Hammersmith & City line.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... p?prID=411

By 9/7 the story was :
Tube train bombs simultaneous

London Underground, the Metropolitan Police and the British Transport Police can now confirm that the three bombs which exploded on three Tube trains on Thursday 7 July 2005 went off simultaneously at around 08.50.

Explosions were as follows (in succession):

* Circle line train number 204 heading eastbound from Liverpool Street station to Aldgate station.
* Circle line train number 216 travelling westbound heading from Edgware Road station to Paddington station.
* Piccadilly line train number 311 travelling from King's Cross St Pancras to Russell Square southbound.

London Underground operates a system called TrackerNet which allows staff to observe electronically the movement of rolling stock on the Tube network. It is presently being introduced for all London Underground lines and is in full operation on the Circle line.

After careful consideration of the recorded archive of realtime movements on the Circle line we can confirm the above for Circle line trains numbers 204 and 216 to have occurred within the space of one minute respectively.

Six images are available in the News Centre. The first three images show the sequence of train movements prior to and including the explosion at Aldgate. The remaining three show the sequence of train movements prior to and including the explosion at Edgware Road.

TrackerNet is not yet live on the Piccadilly line between Hyde Park Corner and Arnos Grove. However, we can also confirm for the affected Piccadilly line train that the explosion occurred simultaneously at 08:50. Our evidence is based upon the precise time the Tunnel Telephone system on the Piccadilly line went out of service.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... p?prID=420
The changes were:

Instead of an incident involving Hammersmith & City Line train (??? train 235 TrackerNet image 3) heading into Liverpool Street from Aldgate East we now have an explosion on Circle Line train 204 heading for Aldgate from Liverpool Street.

Instead of an incident on Hammersmith & City Line train (? train 226 TracketNet image 4) heading from Edgware Road to Paddington we now have an explosion on Circle Line train 216, heading the same way.

Instead of an incident on a Piccadilly Line train heading from Russell Square to King's Cross we now have Picadiily Line train 311 heading from Russell Square to King's Cross.

<-- snipped -->

From the British Transport Police via the Home Office and DoT:
- the Eastbound Circle line train (204) left King's Cross at 08:35.
- the Westbound Circle line train (216) left King's Cross at 08:42
- the Piccadilly Line train south left King's Cross at 08:48

Source: http://bridgetdunnes.blogspot.com/
Note the train number is not given for the Piccadilly Line. The Tube Prune, however, notes:
Update on 7/7 Attack for 10/7/05:
An update of the train identification is that the westbound Piccadilly Line train was actually 331 (not 311) running about 20 minutes late due to an earlier problem at Caledonian Road.

Source: http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/
On the Piccadilly Line train number:

The BBC on 12/7 has number 331:
London Underground, the Metropolitan Police and the British Transport Police can now confirm that the three bombs which exploded on three Tube trains on Thursday 7 July went off simultaneously at around 08.50am

Explosions were as follows (in succession):

- Circle line train number 204 heading eastbound from Liverpool Street station to Aldgate station.
- Circle line train number 216 travelling westbound heading from Edgware Road station to Paddington station.
- Piccadilly line train number 331 travelling from King's Cross St Pancras to Russell Square southbound.

London Underground operates a system called TrackerNet which allows staff to observe electronically the movement of rolling stock on the Tube network. It is presently being introduced for all London Underground lines and is in full operation on the Circle line.

TrackerNet is a management information tool only and not a system on which to base safety critical decisions. This is complimentary to existing LU signalling and track systems which feed into the individual line control rooms.

After careful consideration of the recorded archive of realtime TrackerNet movements on the Circle line we can confirm the above for Circle line trains numbers 204 and 216 to have occurred within the space of one minute respectively.

TrackerNet is not yet live on the central section of the Piccadilly Line. However, we can also confirm for Piccadilly line train 331 that the explosion occurred simultaneously at 08:50:00. Our evidence is based upon the precise time the Tunnel Telephone system went out of service.

Source: BBC News
I asked Tfl whether the train number 311 given on their Press Release was a typo or not. I received the following reply:
Dear Mr Powersurge77

Thank you for your email dated 5 November.

I can confirm that the Piccadilly train involved on 7 July was the westbound train no 331. The initial reports that we received immediately at the time were incorrect and we updated our records accordingly as soon as we were advised.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Please let me know if you have any further queries or if you need any help in the future.

Yours sincerely

Fola Olafare
Customer Service Centre
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
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Joined: Dec 4 2005, 05:55 PM

Dec 8 2005, 09:24 PM #2

A Tale of Two Trains

Train A leaves KX at 0848. By 0850, unless held up by a signal, it will have reached or passed Russell Square.

Train B leaves KX around 0851 but only makes it 100m down the tunnel.

EYEWITNESSES http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4662365.stm
IAN WADE

We had just got through King's Cross when I heard an almighty 'boom, boom' and the carriage stopped immediately. The electricity went completely and the carriage filled with soot.

GURVINDER MAHL

I was on the train between King's Cross and Russell Square.

There was a loud bang just about 100m [328 feet] out from King's Cross

CHRISTINA LAWRENCE

We were pulling away from King's Cross train station and there was a loud bang in the tunnel.

RACHEL MCFAYDEN

As we left King's Cross, about 0855, there was an almighty bang and everything went totally black.

HARALD SCHOENBRODT

Just after King's Cross there was a 'bang' coming from the front carriage.

The lights went out and emergency lighting came on.

Smoke came apparently from outside.

There were no announcement and some people started panicking after a while and tried to smash the doors, but only injured themselves.

After about 30 minutes two policemen opened the back door and let people out. I wonder why it took so long?

The smoke settled down after a while and I assume it was only dust spread around by the sudden Tube break.

We were only maybe 100m [328 feet] away from the platform but when you're inside you don't realise that.
The 0848 departure time is not compatible with the "simultaneous" explosion at 0850 on a train 100m from KX.
Follow the numbers.
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Joined: Nov 25 2005, 11:41 AM

Dec 9 2005, 10:02 PM #3

If I recall correctly, one of the reasons the timings were revised from the staggered timings first announced is because a piece of anonymous mobile phone footage contained a shot of someone's watch. Tim O'Toole then beefed up the story in the press conference quoted above.

If one piece of anonymous mobile phone footage shows one location at 08:50, does it necessarily follow that the two (or six?) other incidents reported on the day all happened at the same time?

Your findings are also consistent with the Government Office for London's timings (via the Metropolitan Police) for the bombed trains. They state:
* At 08.56 there was another incident as Kings Cross/ Russell Square. Both stations were used to bring out casualties. At Kings Cross there were 7 confirmed fatalities, 10 people seriously injured and 100 walking wounded.
DAC Brian Paddick gave the following timeline of events:
In a special news conference at 15:30 BST, July 7, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick of the Metropolitan Police confirmed 33 fatalities so far, 45 critical/serious injuries and approximately 300 minor injuries.

At 08:51 BST a bomb exploded on a Circle Line Underground train 91 metres/100 yards into the tunnel from Liverpool Street. Seven are known to be dead.

At 08:56 BST a bomb detonated on a Piccadilly Line train between King's Cross and Russell Square. Twenty-one are dead; it is believed more bodies remain in the tunnel, which is one of the deepest on the Underground network.

At 09:17 BST a bomb exploded on another Circle Line train between Edgware Road Station and Paddington. The blast blew a hole in a wall, and another train was hit by debris from it. A third train is also involved. Five are known to be dead.

At 09:47 BST a No. 30 bus (Hackney - Marble Arch) blew up at the junction between Tavistock Square and Woburn Place outside the BMA building. It has been estimated that thirteen people died.
08:56 for the Piccadilly Line train again from TubePrune:
the second between Kings Cross and Russell Square on the Piccadilly Line at 08:56
And, of course, 'Rachel North', the Piccadilly Line survivor who now writes regularly for The Times, stated quite categorically in her recent Sunday Times Feature - Rachel's Story, "the passengers of the 08.56 Piccadilly line train".

It seems now that the Piccadilly Line train exploded at 08:56, as originally stated on the day, if we are to believe the original reports, the Government Office for London who cite the Metropolitan Police as their source of information and the eye witness account of the most public of survivors, 'Rachel North'.

Did the Piccadilly Line train incident occur at 08:56 as originally stated?
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
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Joined: Dec 4 2005, 05:55 PM

Dec 10 2005, 08:55 PM #4

The high resolution TrackerNet images are still on the Tfl site:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... 1-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... 2-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... 3-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... 4-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... 5-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... 6-high.jpg


The colour coding

A yellow box indicates a Circle Line train, pink a Hammersmith & City train and plum or magenta or whatever a Metropolitan Line train. These are the colours on the Tube Map.

What does white represent? What are white boxes with train number 000 inside? Prole obtained this information from Clive Feather:

"In image 2, the 000 at Tower Hill is a District Line train going towards Upminster. This particular display is being driven by the Baker Street control system, which only handles the Metropolitan, Circle, and H&C Lines. It therefore won't know which District Line trains are around, so displays 000 to mean "unknown". That's also why the train is shown as white rather than green."

In image 3 a number of track circuits have gone to the "occupied" state because of damage to signalling cables. Where the system thinks it can match them with existing trains, it's done so (e.g. 447 extending all the way from Aldgate to Liverpool Street). Where it can't, you get the "000" code showing an unknown train.

In images 4 to 6 the 000s are trains whose identity hasn't been passed to Baker Street yet (this area being controlled from elsewhere)."

Orange coloured lines

MPS Press Conference, July 9th:

"You can see what has happened is the track circuits on all of those other lines, you can see the orange lines indicate that an event has occurred to trip out the power system."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... mn.01.html

Train Movements around Liverpool Street

The first image shows:

Outer Rail
Clockwise Circle Line train 204 in transit from Moorgate to Liverpool Street.
Eastbound Metropolitan Line train 432 from Uxbridge in transit from Liverpool Street to Aldgate.

Inner Rail
Metropolitan Line train 447 terminated at Aldgate platform 2.
Anticlockwise Circle Line train 211 at Aldgate platform 4.
Westbound Metropolitan Line train 411 in transit from Aldgate to Liverpool Street, heading for Watford.
Westbound Hammersmith & City Line train 227 in transit from Liverpool Street to Moorgate.

The second image shows the same 6 trains, plus a train at Tower Hill:

Outer Rail
Clockwise Circle Line train 204 at Liverpool Street platform 1.
Metropolitan Line train 432 terminating at Aldgate platform 3.

Inner Rail
Metropolitan Line train 447 still at Aldgate platform 2.
Anticlockwise Circle Line train 211 about to leave Aldgate platform 4.
Westbound Metropolitan Line train 411 leaving Liverpool Street platform 2 for Moorgate.
Westbound Hammersmith & City Line train 227 about to leave Moorgate platform 2.

In addition there is a white box with number 000 at Tower Hill. This is possibly an eastbound District Line train.

The third image loses train 227 and the eastbound Tower Hill train but gains two new trains,plus a further westbound one on the District Line:

Outer Rail
New eastbound Metropolitan Line train 450 leaving Liverpool Street platform 1 (but with a white 000 box behind it and the track from Moorgate to Liverpool street coloured pink).
Clockwise Circle Line train 204 in transit from Liverpool Street to Aldgate.
Metropolitan Line train 432 is still at Aldgate platform 3.

Inner Rail
Westbound Metropolitan Line train 447 entering Liverpool Street platform 2 (but obscured by a white 000 box).
Circle Line train 211 has left Aldgate and passed Liverpool Street on its way to Moorgate (but there is a white 000 in front of it and some white track).
Westbound Metropolitan Line train 411 is at Moorgate platform 2.
New Hammersmith & City Line train 235 in transit from Algate East to Liverpool Street. It appears to be crossing the path of train 204. Clive Feather comments:

... It also looks as if train 204 was being held for a conflicting move ...

http://www.ureader.co.uk/message/1217710.aspx

There is a white 000 box at Aldgate just beyond platform 1, the platform which train 204 is headed for.

An unidentified train Westbound on the District Line between Aldgate East and Tower Hill. Two white 000 boxes appear on white track.

BBC Trackernet Images

These four images are all between Tfl images 2 and 3. They apparently show train 204 crossing two red signals.

BBC Image 1

BBC Image 2

BBC Image 3

BBC Image 4


More on Liverpool Street

TrackerNet image 3 at Liverpool Street is a mess. There is a pink line from Moorgate to Liverpool Street that seems to indicate the passage of a H&C train but no pink box is visible. This could have been covered or replaced by the white 000 box. This unidentified H&C train seems to be in close proximity to Metropolitan Line train 450.

On platform 2 train 447 enters the plaform just after train 211 leaves.
Follow the numbers.
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Joined: Dec 4 2005, 05:55 PM

Dec 11 2005, 03:23 AM #5

Information on underground train numbers

Train Set Numbers

From Jimmy Edwards, Jackson, TN, USA 7 June 2002

I think that an article about train set numbers would make an excellent topic for the website, on what they mean and how different lines use them. From my days in the Capital, I remember Bakerloo trains having set numbers mainly less than 100 (ditto the Central, District, and Metropolitan), while trains on the Circle, Hammersmith & City, and Piccadilly lines had set numbers in the 200s and 300s. I might have remembered seeing a Piccadilly train @ Rayners Lane on a Saturday in 1971 having the set number of 500 (which would be out of the aforementioned range). In particular, I remember the following allocation of Metropolitan set numbers: Single digits, 10s, and 20s: Amersham and Watford 30s, 40s, 50s: Uxbridge 60s: Off-peak trains on the Watford branch, created when 8-car trains used to be uncoupled 70s: Off-peak trains on the Uxbridge branch, again created when 8-car trains were uncoupled.

From Tubeprune 7 June 2002:

Train set numbers on London Underground are the numbers which appear on the front and rear of each train to indicate the path it is supposed to take in the timetable. It is a useful way of identifying trains and the crews working on them. The use of train set numbers varies with timetable, fashion and line. Originally, each line numbered it's own trains from 1. When programme machine control appeared in the late 1950s, train numbers were limited to binary code using three digits. Thus train numbers could only contain digits from 0 to 7. You will never see an Underground train with the numbers 8 or 9 in it.

The restriction on numbers extended the range and made it essential to separate, for example, the ranges of H & C, Circle and District train numbers. Thus, in the early 1960s, Circle train numbers used to be 161 to 167 Outer Rail and 171 to 177 Inner Rail. H & C trains were 181 upwards. District trains were numbered 1 to 100 with some gaps. Train 100 was the South Acton Shuttle and the Olympia shuttles were 90 and 91. When programme machines came into operation, all Circle trains became 200s (201 to 207 and 211 to 217) and District trains used the numbers 1 to 77 and 101 to 135 IIRC. H & C trains were 221 to 243. All groups were restricted to 7s. No 8s or 9s appeared.

When Tubeprune worked on the Metropolitan, A Stocks uncoupled became 400s. However, it is the practice to number trains in groups by service or depot of origin, depending on the line and the person compiling the timetable. The rolling stock summary at the front of each Working Timetable (WTT) will list the train set numbers. One line, the District, has a "Set Working Book", which lists the trips by each set.

Is there anyone who would like to shed more light on the subject of train set numbers?

From Clive Feather, 8 June 2002:

In late 1990: - District was 1 to 171; 7x, 16x, and 17x were C stock. 15x were the Olympia shuttles; all other 1xx trains stabled between the peaks. - Metropolitan used 1 to 77; train 7 was the Chesham shuttle. 4xx were used for engineering paths (train turning paths, transfers to New Cross, that sort of thing). - Hammersmith & Circle were 201 to 247. Those trains working on the Circle for much of the day were 20x (Outer Rail) and 21x (Inner Rail); the last digits run in sequence during the day. The Jubilee used 3xx. and the Piccadilly used 250 to 377. The East London Line used 17x (so both District and ELL had a 171). Until the 1980s the District provided some Circle trains on Sundays. They were 11x (Inner Rail) and 12x (Outer Rail). The last digits fitted in with the H&C ones (so the sequence on the Outer Rail might be 201, 202, 123, 204, 125, 201 again).

A few years ago there was some issue because one control centre was now seeing both Metropolitan and District trains, so the Met. got renumbered to use 4xx, and the engineering paths changed to 7xx.

From Lawrence Myers, 9 June 2002:

On a most lines, numbers are arranged so that at least during mid day off peaks, consecutive trains running a particular section of the service, e.g. W Ruislip-Epping, or Ealing Bdy-Hainault, are numbered consecutively, in different groups, whereas those stabling between peaks are also numbered consecutively in groups depending on where they stable .

Further, previously on the Northern Line, for most of the day, the CX Branch Service was kept separate from the City branch with the former numbered 1-77 and the latter 101-177. Nowadays trains operate both branches throughout the day and no such separation is possible.

From Tube Troll, u.t.l, 9 June 2002:

Train numbers are chosen so that trains running on adjacent lines can never have the same train number. Here are some I have been able to find out, maybe someone can give us the Jubilee, District (District Dave?), H&C, Central, Circle and ELL??

Piccadilly Line: (source wtt 37 20/5/2001)
250-260 = Cockfosters to Rayners Lane
261-272 = Cockfosters to Uxbridge
275, 276 = Northfields football spare trains
300-343 = Cockfosters to Heathrow
344-51 Northfields depot midday stablers (mon-Fri only)
352-67 Arnos Grove to Northfields/Northfields depot
370 Cockfosters depot midday stabler (MFO)
371 Mon-Sat Uxbridge sidings overnight stabler, Sun Sth Harrow sidings o/night stabler
372 M-Sat Acton sidings o/night stabler Sun Uxbridge sidings o/night stabler
373 M-Sat Sth Harrow sidings o/night stabler Sun Acton town o/night stabler
766 Cockfosters Nthfields/Nthfields - Cockfosters depot stock transfer paths (ety)

Victoria Line (source WTT 27, 27th Sept 1998)
Trains 201, 2, Brixton stablers, 2 trains
205, 6, Walthamstow stablers, 2 trains
210-217, 220-227, 230-237, 240-247, 250 = Northumberland park trains. (33 trains)
746,747 trains run only when required

Bakerloo Line (source WTT 21, 28th September 1997)
Generally, train numbers are allocated to depot starters in time order
201-213 Stonebridge park,
221-227 Queens Park North and South sheds
231-242 London Road depot
245-247 Elephant and castle
251-253 London Road - Elephant and castle changeover trains

Metropolitan Line, (Source WTT 314 17th Dec 2000, may need updating)
401-405 Aldgate to Amersham fast
407 Chesham Shuttle (4 car train)
410-417 Aldgate/Baker St to Watford (Sun excepted)
421-34 Aldgate/Baker St to Uxbridge
441-56 Neasden Depot interpeak stablers
461-73 Baker St to Watford/Amersham semi fast (Sun Only)
461-64 Amersham to Baker St semi fast (Sun excepted)

Northern Line
Monday to Saturday
1-27 Edg-Bank-Mor-Bank-Edg, Edg-Bank-Mor-Bank-HB,
HB-Bank-Mor-Bank-HB, HB-Bank-Mor-Bank-Edg
41-57 Edg-CX-Mor-Bank-Edg, Edg-Bank-Mor-CX-HB, HB-CX-Kennington-CX-Edg
61-64 HB-CX-Kennington-CX-HB
71-74 Edg-CX-Kennington-CX-Edg
101-105 MHE-CX-Mor-Bank-MHE
106-116 MHE-Bank-Mor-CX-Edg, Edg-CX-Kennington-CX-MHE
125-135 Morden depot inter-peak stablers (Saturdays excepted)
151-163 Golders Green Depot interpeak stablers (Saturdays excepted)
Sundays
1-32 Edg-CX-Kennington-CX-Edg, Edg-Bank-Mor-Bank-Edg
41-64 HB-CX/Bank-Mor-CX/Bank-HB
101-111 MHE-CX/Bank-Mor-CX/Bank-MHE
95 TS training/transfer paths 301-307
Miscellaneous stock & transfer paths 730-734

From Roger, u.t.l, 9 June 2002

....and of course 310 for the Sunday training train path from Morden and 330 for the Saturday training train path from Morden! (not shown in the timetable)

From Bob, 3 July 2002

A bit more info on Train Numbers for you all.

On the Central Line you may come across Empty Stock Moves or Specials operating during Traffic hours.

Train Crew Depots on the Line are numbered as: Ruislip 200, White City 300, Leytonstone 400 and Hainault 600.

An additional train say from White City would be given the number 301. This then identifies where it originates from, 601 from Hainault and so on. Occasionally the Control Room Staff will use 666 from Hainault just for the hell of it but strictly speaking there seems to be no 'rule' as to what no. is applied just so long as the Train number no. and Timetable number match (an additional Trip 81 is entered in to the system by staff at the Control Room for ARS purposes).

Next question no doubt will be 'What is a Trip 81?'

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/forum.htm
Follow the numbers.
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Joined: Dec 4 2005, 05:55 PM

Dec 11 2005, 07:24 PM #6

TrackerNet at Edgware Road

This series of 3 images (4,5,6) is much simpler than the Liverpool Street series but less informative.

Image 4

Hammersmith and City Line train 233 (Outer Rail, eastbound) is in Baker Street
Circle Line Train 206 (Outer Rail, clockwise) is in transit between Edgware Road and Baker Street, held on a red.
Circle Line train 216 (Inner Rail, anticlockwise) is in Baker Street.
An unidentified white 000 train is in Edgeware Road platform 2. This is possibly a District Line "Wimbleware" train waiting to depart for Wimbledon. It does not move.
A Hammersmith and City Line train 226 is in transit, westbound, between Edgware Road and Paddington, possibly stopped. This train is not seen again.
An second unidentified white 000 train is leaving the top platform at Paddington for Edgware Road.

Image 5

Circle Line Train 206 (Outer Rail, clockwise) is in Baker Street.
Anticlockwise Circle Line train 216 has arrived at Edgware Road platform 4 and has a green signal to leave.
The second unidentified white 000 train is now in Edgware Road platform 1
An third unidentified white 000 train is leaving the third from top platform at Paddington for Edgware Road.

Image 6

The second unidentified white 000 train at platform 1 has a green signal to leave Edgware Road for Baker Street.
Circle Line train 216 has left Edgware Road, platform 4, for Paddington.
The third unidentified white 000 train appears to be stopped opposite train 216 at Praed Street Junction.

Questions:

What happened to train 226?
What are the numbers of the two 000 trains out of Paddington?
Is the top platform at Paddington Hammersmith and City?
Is the third from top Circle Line?

Using Prole's information on the procession of Circle Line Trains, it is easy to see that, if the train opposite train 216 is a Circle Line train, then its number is 207 since train 206 is ahead of it in Baker Street.
Follow the numbers.
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Joined: Nov 26 2005, 01:46 AM

Dec 14 2005, 10:00 PM #7

Some information on the carriage numbers from Clive Feather:

Some more information for you.

I wrote:
>> The Observer carried a long article quoting firemen who attended the
>>scene on the Piccadilly line and going into carriage 346A, are the
>>carriages numbered differently to the trains?
>
>Each carriage has a 3 to 5 digit number painted on it, unrelated to the
>train numbers discussed above. For the Piccadilly, the trains are made up
>of two half-trains. These half trains can have one driving cab or two. If
>they have one cab, the three numbers are exact 200 apart (e.g. 123, 323,
>and 523), with the low number (between 100 and 299) being the driving cab
>car, the high number (500 to 699) the centre one, and the middle number the
>one nearest the middle of the train. Even numbers have the driving cab at
>the 'A' end and odd numbers have it at the 'D' end ('A' and 'D' are
>traditional terms; trains can only couple A-to-D, not A-to-A or D-to-D).

The logic behind the letters is actually very simple: all cars have four
axles (and so 8 wheels). The axles are lettered A to D from one end to
the other.

On the Piccadilly Line the A-to-D rule applies, but on some other lines
the trains are specifically designed (by duplicating the electrical
connections) to couple any way round.

>Half trains with two cabs are numbered e.g. 876-676-877, with the even
>number being the 'A' end cab.
>
>So you can see that 346 would be one of the two middle cars of the train,
>and would be a 'D' end car.

The Piccadilly Line train consisted of the following vehicles:

166-566-366-417-617-217

Car 166 was the one holding the bomb.

C stock, as used on the Circle Line (among others) consists of pairs of
cars, one with motors and a driving cab and the other without. The
former has a 4-digit number beginning 5 while the latter has the same
number but with an initial 6. The original 1969 batch have numbers in
the x5xx and x6xx ranges, while the additional cars of the 1977 batch
are numbered x7xx.

The damaged vehicles of the Edgware Road train were 5505 and 6505 (the
latter was the one lifted out by crane). The damaged vehicles of the
Aldgate train were 5548-6548-6713-5713. I don't have the numbers of the
other cars of those trains, or the order they were in (but those four in
the Aldgate train would have been in that relative order).

>> http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 39,00.html
>My first assumption is that the Observer is staffed by malicious lying
>cretins who wouldn't know a fact if it hit them over the head.

I see no reason to change that opinion.

--
Clive D.W. Feather &#124; Home: <clive@davros.org>
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) &#124; Web: <http://www.davros.org>
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 &#124; Work: <clive@demon.net>
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: <clive@davros.org>
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
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