Stockwell gun officer kills again

In the aftermath of the murder, a cascade of misinformation and lies from the very top down. From Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair to the trigger-happy plain-clothes shooters identified only as "carrying a long-barrelled weapon", the actions that day have been exposed as a cover-up of the events that resulted in the extra-judicial execution of an innocent man.

Stockwell gun officer kills again

Joined: 26 Nov 2005, 01:46

02 Nov 2006, 00:05 #1

Exclusive: Stockwell gun officer kills again

By STEPHEN WRIGHT, Chief Crime Correspondent Last updated at 23:33pm on 1st November 2006


Mr de Menezes was shot dead at point-blank range by two officers the day after the July 21 attempted bombings

One of the police marksmen who killed unarmed Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes has shot dead a suspected armed robber, the Daily Mail can reveal.

Weeks after returning to firearms duties, the officer opened fire on a man allegedly taking part in a robbery on a building society in Kent.


The incident led to a wave of crisis meetings at Scotland Yard amid claims that the marksman should not have been on the front line so soon after the death of Mr de Menezes, who was mistaken for a suicide bomber at Stockwell Tube station in South London in July last year.

For more than a year, the marksmen, whose names remain secret, were on restricted duties within Scotland Yard's CO19 specialist firearms unit.

But in July this year, after they were told they would not face criminal charges, they were controversially cleared to carry firearms again and take part in operations.

On Tuesday night, one of the officers was involved in an operation to prevent a robbery on Romney Marsh in East Kent.

An as-yet unnamed man aged 42 was shot and died in hospital after the incident at an office of the Nationwide building society in New Romney at around 8pm.

Detectives from the Metropolitan Police's Flying Squad, supported by armed officers from CO19, were conducting what they called a 'proactive operation' to prevent an armed robbery and arrest those believed to be involved.

It was only last night that police sources confirmed one of the Stockwell marksmen had gunned the man down. They insisted he had 'no choice' but to shoot the suspect.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is still investigating the Stockwell shooting, has launched an inquiry into the Kent fatality.

In a statement, the Met said: "The firearms team involved in the Flying Squad operation in Kent did include officers from the same team who were involved in the Stockwell shooting in July last year.

"The Met has a small cadre of specialist highly-trained firearms officers who last year were deployed to 2,529 incidents and are involved in 938 pre-planned operations.

"They perform an extremely difficult but vital function responding to armed threats against the public and their unarmed colleagues and it is extremely rare for officers to fire their guns.

"As is proper, the IPCC is conducting an independent investigation into the shooting. Their inquiries are ongoing but they have confirmed that a firearm was recovered at the scene. It is deeply regrettable when anyone dies as a result of police action."

The Yard confirmed that one of the officers involved in the Kent shooting had been relieved of firearms duties. This is routine in such cases.

The force declined to give further details of what happened or comment on the number of shots fired during the operation, except to say that it was not terroristrelated.

It is unclear if any money was taken from the building society.

Three men were also arrested as part of the operation and they are being questioned by detectives.

Andrew Bourne, 21, whose father has a butcher's shop in New Romney, arrived at the scene about 20 minutes after the shooting and said he thought the alleged robbers had targeted a security van parked outside the Nationwide.

"I came down to the shop to grab some things. As I came down to the high street, it was all cordoned off at the traffic lights.

"There were police cars across the road. There was a Securitas van half off the kerb, half on.

"I could see a red car parked across the road at an odd angle. It was in the middle of the road. It really didn't look like an undercover police car - it was too old."

His father David, 54, chairman of the town's Traders' Association, said: "Things like this don't happen in New Romney. It is a very small town. During the day, the high street is very busy but luckily no other people got injured.

"Most of the community have either lived here all their lives or have moved down here for a quiet life."

He said: "I would have thought they were a gang from London or that area who could have targeted New Romney because it is small. They must have done their homework.

"There are no CCTV cameras here in New Romney. We have looked into it but the cost of it was too much."

Irene Clayson, 83, said she heard noises at the rear of her terrace home, which is near the Nationwide-at about 8.15pm.

"I heard a commotion and as I pulled back my curtains on a window facing where the shooting happened, I could see something but it was too dark to see exactly what was going on.

"I thought it might be children doing trick or treat. I wasn't too worried. I was very surprised when I heard there had been a shooting. I didn't hear a shot being fired.

"Perhaps they used a gun with a silencer, I don't know. I would have thought I would have heard a gun being fired."

Shopper Frederick Best, 72, said: "It's a shame this bloke was shot dead but it does happen. If you carry guns, you expect to get shot."

The shooting will heap even more pressure on beleaguered Met chief Sir Ian Blair. He has been questioned by watchdog officials investigating his conduct in the aftermath of the death of Mr de Menezes.

Sir Ian had to respond to claims by the innocent Brazilian's family that he misled the public in the wake of the Stockwell shooting.

Investigators from the Independent Police Complaints Commission-inquiry - codenamed Stockwell-2 - are due to reach their conclusion soon and their findings are seen as critical for Sir Ian's future.

He has been under pressure following a string of controversies, including revelations that he secretly taped phone conversations with the Attorney General Lord Goldsmith and three IPCC officials.

The shooting is the latest in a list of controversial incidents involving police marksmen.

In July 2001, father-of-four Derek Bennett, 29, was shot six times by officers in Brixton, South London. They thought his cigarette lighter was a weapon.

In September 1999, two officers shot dead a man they thought was carrying a sawn off shotgun - but who was actually holding a table leg.

Painter and decorator Harry Stanley, 46, was gunned down in Hackney, East London, after police said he ignored a warning and raised the bag he was holding.

A 999 call had suggested he was an Irish terrorist with a sawn-off shotgun.
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005, 11:41

02 Nov 2006, 00:16 #2

The Shoot to Kill to Protect Killer Marksman bags another one, making it a brace of peasants in just a couple of days work.

In the old times, murderous bastards like this would be lynched.
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005, 11:41

02 Nov 2006, 02:40 #3

Detectives from the Metropolitan Police's Flying Squad, supported by armed officers from CO19, were conducting what they called a 'proactive operation' to prevent an armed robbery and arrest those believed to be involved.
If the police record of 'proactive operations' in the field of 'anti-terror' are anything to go by, in which all but the far-right, white terrorists appear to be mostly innocent, then the future doesn't bode well for anyone left alive in this country.

It's not normal, nor is it acceptable, behaviour, in Britain, for the police to execute people on the streets, nor on the underground for that matter (although it is normal for the police killers to get away with it when it happens (unless their name is Harry Roberts, in a complete reversal of the original intent of the phrase 'police killers')), so it might be safe to assume that they've recruited and/or trained some particularly nasty pieces of work.

The excuse for the execution of Jean Charles de Menezes was that he was a suicide bomber (even though the 21/7 bombers with no bombs couldn't have been suicide bombers either) and such an approach was in some way 'justified', but could the same be said about a suspected armed robber?

"Shoot to kill to protect" - the ultimate exercise in the subtle art of linguistic confusion into submission.
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005, 01:46

02 Nov 2006, 02:59 #4

The BBC have the story as well.
A firearms officer involved in the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes shot a 42-year-old man during a police operation in Kent.



The man died later in hospital after the incident at a Nationwide building society in New Romney on Tuesday.

Scotland Yard's CO19 firearms unit were supporting Flying Squad officers as they tackled a suspected armed robbery.

Mr de Menezes was shot dead after police mistook him for a suicide bomber at Stockwell Tube station in July 2005.

The BBC's home and legal affairs correspondent, Margaret Gilmore, said: "Sources have told me one of two officers who shot dead the innocent Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell last year also shot and injured a man during this operation."

The police officer involved had been taken off firearms work after the Stockwell shooting but returned to armed duty after the Crown Prosecution Service decided he would not be prosecuted.

Scotland Yard confirmed a police officer involved in the New Romney incident had been relieved of firearms duties, pending an inquiry.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has also begun an investigation into the shooting.

The dead man, who has not been named, was injured at about 2000 GMT and died later at the William Harvey Hospital, in Ashford.

A nearby resident reported hearing two "sharp retorts" which he thought were fireworks.

Three men were arrested and a sawn-off shotgun was recovered during the operation but no officers were injured.

The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: "The Specialist Firearms team (CO19) involved in the Flying Squad operation in Kent did include officers from the same team who were involved in the Stockwell shooting in July last year.

"The Met has a small cadre of specialist highly-trained firearms officers who last year were deployed to 2,529 incidents and were involved in 938 pre-planned operations.

"They perform an extremely difficult but vital function responding to armed threats against the public and their unarmed colleagues and it is extremely rare for officers to fire their guns.

"As is proper the IPCC is conducting an independent investigation into the shooting. Their enquiries are ongoing but they have confirmed that a firearm was recovered at the scene.

"It is deeply regrettable when anyone dies as a result of police action."

The Metropolitan Police Service faces a trial under health and safety laws following the shooting of Mr de Menezes.

His family have also launched a legal action challenging a decision not to charge individual officers over his death.
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006, 19:56

02 Nov 2006, 04:03 #5

I've got the earlier version which is better ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/6104774.stm
Last Updated: Wednesday, 1 November 2006, 15:24 GMT

It is unclear if any money was taken from the building society and a spokesman for Nationwide said the company had no comment.
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006, 19:56

03 Nov 2006, 17:40 #6

This article says

(i) that he was zapped with 50,000 volts after being shot because his hand was twitching - he was still alive?

(ii) that they don't know who shot him !?!

(iii) one gun between four?

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/misc ... id=1001957
Man shot by Menezes marksman 'stunned with gun'

THE man killed by a police marksman involved in the fatal shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes was also shot with a 50,000 volt Taser gun, it emerged today.


Robert Haines, 41, was gunned down on Tuesday night as police tried to thwart a robbery at a Nationwide building society in New Romney, Kent.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), who revealed the man's identity today, are investigating the shooting but have been unable to say which officers were involved.

However, sources say the gun was fired by one of two men involved in the shooting of Mr Menezes at Stockwell tube station, south London, in July last year.

It was suggested that the Taser stun gun may have then been used because the victim's hand was still twitching.

Mr Haines, an ex-bouncer who lived with his wife Gillian and three young sons in Challock, near Ashford, Kent, was confirmed dead at the William Harvey Hospital in Ashford.

Sources said he was "well-known" to police and alleged to have committed a string of raids on banks and building societies.

Three men were arrested during the raid on Tuesday night and a firearm was recovered from the scene during what police described as a "proactive" operation.

Scotland Yard confirmed that officers involved in the Menezes shooting were also involved in the incident in Kent. A police officer has been relieved of firearms duties pending an inquiry.

A statement from London's Metropolitan Police yesterday said: "The specialist firearms team (CO19) involved in the Flying Squad operation in Kent did include officers from the same team who were involved in the Stockwell shooting in July last year.

"The Met has a small cadre of specialist highly-trained firearms officers who last year were deployed to 2,529 incidents and were involved in 938 pre-planned operations.

"They perform an extremely difficult but vital function responding to armed threats against the public and their unarmed colleagues and it is extremely rare for officers to fire their guns.

"As is proper the IPCC is conducting an independent investigation into the shooting. Their enquiries are ongoing but they have confirmed that a firearm was recovered at the scene.

"It is deeply regrettable when anyone dies as a result of police action."

Mr de Menezes, 27, was shot seven times in the head after being mistaken for a suspected terrorist.

The two officers involved were suspended from firearms duties following the incident last summer.

However, they were both returned to full operational duties with the CO19 firearms unit in July this year after the Crown Prosecution Service decided that neither should face charges.

The family of Mr de Menezes, who recently launched a High Court appeal against the decision not to prosecute, responded with anger to the latest shooting.

A spokeswoman for the family said: "The family of Jean Charles de Menezes expressed shock and disbelief at the news that officers involved in the killing of Jean Charles have killed again.

"Family members were horrified to learn that the same officers have been given a licence to kill again even before the investigative process into Jean's death is complete."

8:18am today

By Ruth Holmes
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Joined: 07 Dec 2005, 15:21

03 Nov 2006, 21:20 #7

Indisguise: Good questions!

It's reasonable to assume in this case that he wasn't a suspected suicide bomber, so why the need to 'finish him off'? Very disturbing. One assumes they're 'highly trained' to injure rather than kill in such cases....I think the fact that it's the same officer just makes it more insulting, but it's shocking enough anyway.
"We are not democrats for, among other reasons, democracy sooner or later leads to war and dictatorship. Just as we are not supporters of dictatorships, among other things, because dictatorship arouses a desire for democracy, provokes a return to democracy, and thus tends to perpetuate a vicious circle in which human society oscillates between open and brutal tyranny and a lying freedom." - Errico Malatesta, Democracy and Anarchy 1924
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