Piccadilly Line Trains 311 / 331

"We need an official inquiry - now. Not a whitewash inquiry like Lord Hutton's. Or a punch-pulling inquiry like Lord Butler's. But an inquiry run by plain Mr or Mrs somebody." - Lt. Col. Crispin Black
An independent, public discussion, analysis and inquiry into the events of July 7th.

Piccadilly Line Trains 311 / 331

Joined: 25 Nov 2005, 11:41

22 Jan 2006, 01:14 #1

More background to follow but just to get the discussion going:

Piccadilly Line Trains 311 / 331: In depth analysis

There are now a significant number of conflicting reports, discrepancies and questions about what happened on the Piccadilly Line on July 7th. The main questions are as follows:

1. Which train(s) were affected?
2. What time did the blast(s) occur?
3. Where on the train(s) did the blast(s) occur?
4. How far did the train(s) get from from King's Cross?


THE STORY SO FAR....

PICCADILLY LINE TRAIN NUMBERS
On July 9th, Transport For London reported the following blast timings and locations:
Explosions were as follows (in succession):

* Circle line train number 204 heading eastbound from Liverpool Street station to Aldgate station.
* Circle line train number 216 travelling westbound heading from Edgware Road station to Paddington station.
* Piccadilly line train number 311 travelling from King's Cross St Pancras to Russell Square southbound.

Source: Transport For London
Note the number of the Piccadilly Line train, 311. This was later changed to Piccadilly Line train 331, and this change was confirmed by Transport For London's customer services by an independent researcher:
19/Nov/2005

Thank you for your email dated 5 November.

I can confirm that the Piccadilly train involved on 7 July was the westbound train no 331. The initial reports that we received immediately at the time were incorrect and we updated our records accordingly as soon as we were advised.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Please let me know if you have any further queries or if you need any help in the future.

Yours sincerely

Fola Olafare
Customer Service Centre
The notion is that Transport for London made a mistake when they originally reported that Piccadilly Line train 311 was involved in the events of July 7th. TFL corrected the original 311 announcement and stated that it was Piccadilly Line train 331 on which the carnage occurred. Then, the story of the driver of train 311 and his T/Op passenger on July 7th appears on a July 7th related blog.

The T/Op passenger in the cab of the affected train, Ray Wright, wrote:
Not wishing to denigrate any of the actions of police on the day, not ONE WORD has been said about the driver of Train 311, Tom Nairn. I joined Tom's train at Kings Cross, travelling in the cab with him on my way to work as a fellow driver, based at Acton Town. I took the first couple of batches of walking wounded to Russell Square and was probably the first member of staff to meet any colleague at the station.

Tom stayed behind in the first car, doing what we as drivers are paid to do, looking after his train and his passengers on it. He helped some by applying tourniquets and reassuring others. He saw things that even trained police officers found themselves unable to cope with, but most importantly had to face it on his own before help arrived probably 40 minutes later, a scene of utter devastation in almost total darkness. He has never been mentioned or praised, he has remained dignified and quiet, and has never returned to drive a train.

Recently he applied for some compensation through his union. The response from the Met Police was "We have no knowledge of this person having been involved in this incident and therefore will not be processing his claim further."

Rather odd because Tom and I were interviewed by police for around three hours after the incident. The press coverage of the other 'heroes' has left him feeling completely empty and devalued. Pity when the reaction of Police and certain members of station staff are lauded he has been completely forgotten.

Ray Wright,
Train Operator,
Acton Town Depot

Source:  Blogger Comment
There are other underground worker stories that confirm the Piccadilly Line train number as 311, including that of the Duty Manager at Russell Square tube station that morning, Gary Stevens:
GARY STEVENS, DUTY MANAGER AT RUSSELL SQUARE TUBE STATION

I was meant to start work at 0900 that morning. I woke up early, I couldn't sleep, so I decided to start work early. If I'd have gone in at the normal time I'd have been on the affected train, train 3/11, and I would have been in the first car. I use that carriage every day to exit the station...

I was in my office at work, and at 0854 all the lights flickered in the office... we went down to the platform, couldn't see anything at all, when we noticed there was a light in the tunnel.

We hung on to see what it was and it was the driver of train 3/11 with about 30 or 40 injured customers, who had managed to get out and he led them down the tunnel. Some of them had quite serious head injuries, clothes blown off, things like that...

Source: BBC News
One would expect that train drivers and station Duty Managers would know the trains they are driving or have passing through their stations, especially as - as confirmed by Clive D.W. Feather - the train numbers are used as radio call signs. (Source)

It would seem then that Gary Stevens did not see train driver Tom Nairn, or the driver of train 331, but instead Ray Wright, a train operator who travelled in the cab of train 311 with driver Tom Nairn. Ray Wright initially handled the task of leading passengers to a station while driver Tom Nairn stayed with his train to assist the survivors and injured.

This leaves us with a train driver, his Train Operator passenger in the cab that morning and the Duty Manager at Russell Square all telling us that the train in question was train 311.

This fact was once again checked by an independent public researcher to ensure that TFL were aware of the discrepancy between the two train numbers. Transport for London wrote back:
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 19:16 +0000, Customer Services wrote:
Our ref: 1084546

17/Jan/2006


Thanks for your further email.

As stated in my previous email, the Piccadilly train involved on 7 July was
the westbound train no 331.  The initial reports that we received
immediately at the time were incorrect and have now been subsequently
updated.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Please get in touch if I can be
of any further help.

Yours sincerely

Fola Olafare
Customer Service Centre
The driver of train 311 spent 40 minutes in almost total darkness dealing with the injured on his train, yet the Metropolitan Police had "no record of this individual being involved in this incident."


WHERE WAS/WERE THE EXPLOSION(S)?

Transport for London have now twice confirmed that train 311 was erroneously reported and that train 331 was the train involved on July 7th and the BBC report Piccadilly Line explosions in two different locations:

BBC Source 1:
0850
The explosion was on Piccadilly line train number 311 travelling south from King's Cross station to Russell Square. The device was in the first carriage by the first set of double doors where passengers stand.

Twenty-six people died in the blast. Recovery teams took many days to extract all the bodies from the damaged carriages.

The Piccadilly line is 21.3 metres (70 feet) deep at this point. Recovery teams faced intense heat of up to 60C, dust, fumes, vermin, asbestos and there were initial concerns that the tunnel might collapse.

BBC News reporter Jacqui Head, who was on the train, told of a "massive bang" and added: "There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was very hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/u ... ell_sq.stm
BBC Source 2:
"At 0850 BST a bomb exploded on Piccadilly line train number 311 travelling south from King's Cross station to Russell Square.

The device was next to the rear set of double doors in the front carriage of the train. Twenty-six people, plus the bomber, were killed.

On board the train was BBC News reporter Jacqui Head, who described the immediate aftermath: "There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was very hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying."

After emergency services arrived and survivors were led to safety, recovery teams and investigators began work.

The Piccadilly line is 21.3 metres (70 feet) below ground at this point. Intense heat of up to 60C, dust, fumes, vermin, asbestos and initial concerns the tunnel might collapse delayed the extraction of bodies and the forensic operation.

The bomber was later named as Germaine Lindsay, aged 19."
Source: BBC News
"The device was in the first carriage by the first set of double doors where passengers stand" and "The device was next to the rear set of double doors in the front carriage of the train". One of two locations on one of two trains based on the presence of trains 311/331.

PICCADILLY LINE CARRIAGE NUMBERS
The Piccadilly Line train, as Clive Feather advised and as was posted here by Prole, consisted of the following vehicles: 166-566-366-417-617-217, and the first carriage of that train - the carriage that was bombed - was car 166.

In an article about the first firefighters that arrived on the scene of the Piccadilly Line incident at 10:00am (?!), Blue Watch relive the bomb hell inside carriage 346A, carriage 346A is referred to eleven times, if you include the title of the article.

Carriage 346A does not feature in Clive Feather's train line-up.

Jacqui Head, a survivor from the Piccadilly Line incident describes what happened after the initial panic:
But then it sounded like another train had come up behind us and the carriage filled with smoke again and people became really, really frightened.
With the combination of Clive Feather's train construction, the Observer article about the hell inside carriage 346A and Jacqui Head's quote about a train rolling up behind them as the carriage once again filled up with smoke, do we perhaps have indication of quite how carriage 346A became attached to a Piccadilly Line train construction into which carriage 346A was not built? Or, what was it that is now referred to as 346A?
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 17:55

22 Jan 2006, 19:59 #2

A note on the Piccadilly Line 1973 Tube Stock car numbering.

Each car has four axles labelled A, B, C, D. A car has an A end and a D end. The couplings at the A end are different from the couplings at the D end. Cars can only couple A to D. Three cars couple to form a half train. For example, 146-546-346. 146 is the A car of the half train. 346 is the D car. 346A is impossible. To repeat, 346A is an impossible car on any train.

A full train would be: 146-546-346-4xx-6xx-2xx.

346 would be the third or fourth carriage from the front, depending on which way the train was going.

Which train does the physical set 166-566-366-417-617-217 belong to?

The Tube prune informs me that:

"Unit 166-566-366 was severly damaged, 366 is probably the only possible survivor but it has no other cars to work with at this time."

Since the explosion in 311 was at the rear set of double doors and damaged the second carriage, there is a strong presumption that 166 belonged to train 311, the train near Russell Square.
Follow the numbers.
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005, 01:46

22 Jan 2006, 21:38 #3

According to Rachel of North London who posts as Badger Kitten on Urban75 forum.
Badger Kitten
08-07-2005, 04:38 PM
I am hearing on the news that the bombs were on carriage one by the first set of doors.
This is not true. That is where I was. The explosion was behind me. These reports are wrong.

(edit) sorry, that was on the Picadilly line train going from Kings X to Russell Square
Badger Kitten
08-07-2005, 04:42 PM
You should report this information badger.
I have. I just spent half an hour talking to the Crimial Investigation line. I've tried the BBC newsdesk, the Surivir/Missing Person line and eventually I got through to the right people.

I am worried that people are trying to dig out bodies and they are approaching the wrong end of the train, they should approach it via Russell Square, not via Kings X. We escaped at the front, the bomb was behind us. That is the way they need to go in to get the bodies out
Badger Kitten
08-07-2005, 04:53 PM
When you say behind you, was it in the carriage behind you or could it have been a couple behind?
If it was the carriage directly behind you then my theory is pants.
Glad to hear you are ok. My aunt's flat mate is missing currently and was supposedly on that train.
I hope she/he is ok and you find her. Best wishes and prayers.

The explosion was so loud I can't tell if it was several carriages behind or the next one behind. It felt like being punched in the ears. All I know is I walked forward, escaped out the drivers hatch, it was unbelievably crowded, we escaped from the front and there was no bomb to my immediate left or right or in front of me. And I was in the middle by the door, and I fell to the left, by the doors. Then I got up and left by going straight head and out front. And the tunnel was intact.


Urban 75
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 17:55

22 Jan 2006, 21:40 #4

The "Blue Watch" article.

Blue Watch relive the bomb hell inside carriage 346A

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 39,00.html

He was firefighter Aaron Roche, the first person to enter carriage 346A of the 8.51am Piccadilly Line service from King's Cross after the 7 July bombs went off.

It was the 48th such service to leave London's busiest tube station that morning, each carriage crammed with commuters, many reading the newspaper coverage of London's Olympic triumph the previous day.


This article does not give a train number. Instead it identifies the train in three ways.

1. It was the 48th passenger service of the day westbound from Kings Cross.

2. It departed Kings Cross at 0851.

3. It contained car 346.

This was train 331, the train near to Kings Cross. Blue watch rescued Garri Holness who had been looked after by Alison Macarthy.
Follow the numbers.
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005, 11:41

22 Jan 2006, 21:58 #5

Given the recent emergence of the driver of Train 311 and that we now know he spent 40 minutes in almost total darkness tending to the injured in the aftermath of what happened, these eye witness reports that state there was no contact from the driver of the train are now especially interesting:
Fiona Trueman, 26, of St. Albans was aboard the Piccadilly Line train on which the most people were killed. "There was a massive bang, the train lights went out and there was a lot of smoke and glass smashing," she recalled. "There was four or five seconds, and then everyone was going, 'Oh my God, we can't breathe.' What was running round in my mind was: Am I dreaming? It was surreal. The bomb was in front of the train or on the tracks. I was in the second carriage. There was screaming and coughing with the smoke.  It was pitch black and people were getting their mobiles," she said. "Everyone was screaming to break the windows. No one was telling us anything; there was no contact from the driver. I don't even know if he made it, to be honest. The screams from the carriage in front of us were terrible."

"I think the driver passed away," said 25-year-old Joseph Aka, another Piccadilly Line passenger. "Because when the train exploded, he didn't say anything after that."

"People started shouting, 'Help, help!' " Aka said. "No one came to help.
"

Survivors from the Piccadilly Line estimated they spent half an hour trapped in the blackness, smoke and blood of the subway cars. Some said they wept. Others strained to make conversation, asking strangers what work they did. The cries of the wounded made it difficult. "The screams from the carriage in front of us were terrible," Trueman said.

Passengers finally made it out through the mostly intact rear car. Feeling their way, they walked 15 minutes back to the King's Cross station, fearful all the time of electrocution from the tracks, Aka said. The strong helped the injured, walking past mutilated, motionless bodies, he said.

Source: Washington Post
However, London Underground stated:
3. Mercifully, no member of our staff was injured in any of the explosions.  I understand that there was damage to the cab of at least one train where the windows were shattered.

Source: Robert Wolstenholme, London Underground
Also, passengers were evacuated via King's Cross and Russell Square and from the various reports it should be possible to pinpoint the location(s) of the train(s) fairly precisely.

Numeral: Do you have King's Cross - Russell Square track specs to hand? Perhaps we can start working on pinpointing the location based on the distance reported to/from both stations.
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 17:55

22 Jan 2006, 23:03 #6

The distance from Kings Cross to Russell Square is 820m. The trailing crossover from the eastbound track joins the westbound track 185m from Kings Cross. Trains are 104m long.
Joe Orr states that the front of 311 was 380m from Russell Square. Several witnesses say the rear of 331 was 100m or less from Kings Cross. That puts the front of 331 about level with the crossover. There was about 150m between 331 and 311.
Follow the numbers.
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005, 11:41

24 Jan 2006, 11:06 #7

The Antagonist @ Jan 22 2006, 01:14 AM wrote:Piccadilly Line Trains 311 / 331: In depth analysis

There are now a significant number of conflicting reports, discrepancies and questions about what happened on the Piccadilly Line on July 7th.  The main questions are as follows:

1.  Which train(s) were affected?
2.  What time did the blast(s) occur?
3.  Where on the train(s) did the blast(s) occur?
4.  How far did the train(s) get from from King's Cross?

WHERE WAS/WERE THE EXPLOSION(S)?

Transport for London have now twice confirmed that train 311 was erroneously reported and that train 331 was the train involved on July 7th and the BBC report Piccadilly Line explosions in two different locations:
BBC Source 1:
BBC NEWS | INDEPTH | LONDON ATTACKS

"At 0850 BST a bomb exploded on Piccadilly line train number 311 travelling south from King's Cross station to Russell Square.

The device was next to the rear set of double doors in the front carriage of the train. Twenty-six people, plus the bomber, were killed.

On board the train was BBC News reporter Jacqui Head, who described the immediate aftermath: "There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was very hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying."

After emergency services arrived and survivors were led to safety, recovery teams and investigators began work.

The Piccadilly line is 21.3 metres (70 feet) below ground at this point. Intense heat of up to 60C, dust, fumes, vermin, asbestos and initial concerns the tunnel might collapse delayed the extraction of bodies and the forensic operation.

The bomber was later named as Germaine Lindsay, aged 19."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/u ... ell_sq.stm
BBC Source 2:
0850
The explosion was on Piccadilly line train number 311 travelling south from King's Cross station to Russell Square. The device was in the first carriage by the first set of double doors where passengers stand.

Twenty-six people died in the blast. Recovery teams took many days to extract all the bodies from the damaged carriages.

The Piccadilly line is 21.3 metres (70 feet) deep at this point. Recovery teams faced intense heat of up to 60C, dust, fumes, vermin, asbestos and there were initial concerns that the tunnel might collapse.

BBC News reporter Jacqui Head, who was on the train, told of a "massive bang" and added: "There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was very hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/u ... ell_sq.stm
PICCADILLY LINE CARRIAGE NUMBERS
The Piccadilly Line train, as Clive Feather advised and as was posted here by Prole, consisted of the following vehicles: 166-566-366-417-617-217, and the first carriage of that train - the carriage that was bombed - was car 166.

In an article about the first firefighters that arrived on the scene of the Piccadilly Line incident at 10:00am (?!), Blue Watch relive the bomb hell inside carriage 346A, carriage 346A is referred to eleven times, if you include the title of the article.

Carriage 346A does not feature in Clive Feather's train line-up.

Jacqui Head, a survivor from the Piccadilly Line incident describes what happened after the initial panic:
But then it sounded like another train had come up behind us and the carriage filled with smoke again and people became really, really frightened.
With the combination of Clive Feather's train construction, the Observer article about the hell inside carriage 346A and Jacqui Head's quote about a train rolling up behind them as the carriage once again filled up with smoke, do we perhaps have indication of quite how carriage 346A became attached to a Piccadilly Line train construction into which carriage 346A was not built? Or, what was it that is now referred to as 346A?
Tube Prune has the following information about the blasts, including information about the train number and the blast location:
Update on 7/7 Attack for 10/7/05:

The explosion on the Piccadilly Line occured on a westbound train, apparently on the front car near in the area adjacent to the front double doors. The driver and some passengers escaped with their lives due to the density of passengers. Most of the rest of the passengers appear to have been evacuated from the rear of the train. As of Saturday night, work on the site is confined to forensic, police and other emergency staff. The railway repair company Tubelines, has not been permitted to start clearing up work. Temperatures are very high and special ventilation and refrigeration equipment has had to be provided. At one point work was stopped when site temperatures reached 60 degrees celcius.

There have been reports of a low level of asbestos around the expolsion site. This may be due to old brake dust or tunnel grouting as trains are no longer permitted to operate with this material. A special monitoring system has been put in place.
...
An update of the train identification is that the westbound Piccadilly Line train was actually 331 (not 311) running about 20 minutes late due to an earlier problem at Caledonian Road.
Source: Trainweb: TubePrune
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
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