Hearing Transcripts - Discussion

Forum for discussion and observations regarding the 7 July 2005 inquest proceedings. See also the dedicated J7: 7/7 Inquests Blog for analysis and summaries of the proceedings: http://77inquests.blogspot.com/
and the official Inquests web site: Coroner's Inquest into the London Bombings of 7 July 2005.

Hearing Transcripts - Discussion

Joined: Dec 4 2005, 05:55 PM

Oct 11 2010, 04:58 PM #1

Notes:

The Fiat Brava got a parking ticket while GL was asleep in it.

ST's white trousers were found in the Brava.
10 Returning to Mrs Waugh, the lady who saw them in the
11 early hours of that morning, she will, we expect, give
12 evidence that between 04.05 and 04.10 in the morning she
13 was woken by noise and looked out of her window. She
14 saw, she recalls, six Asian males addressed in casual
15 clothing and she will recount, we anticipate, how four
16 of them got into a light-blue, newish, four-door car,
17 possibly the blue Nissan Micra
. The others got into an
18 older-looking, white car.
19 At 03.58, so perhaps a few minutes later, presuming
20 there to be some inaccuracy either in Mrs Waugh's
21 timings or those of the CCTV, a CCTV in the Hyde Park
22 area of Leeds picked up a bluish car as it left Leeds
23 for the M1 and its journey to Luton.
24 The whitish car, assuming Mrs Waugh to have been
25 correct in seeing one, is not seen again, but if there

66

1 was one, there must be a strong suspicion, given that it
2 left the flat at the same time as three of the bombers
3 on their final journey, that its occupants must have
4 known what was going on. Enquiries made by the Inquest
5 team of the Metropolitan Police have disclosed that
6 extensive enquiries were made by the police in an
7 attempt to identify, trace and locate the white vehicle,
8 if there was one, and its occupants, and these included
9 CCTV checks, checks of the police national computer and
10 checks of vehicles linked to associates. But all those
11 enquiries proved negative.
12 A matter, my Lady, to be determined in due course by
13 yourself is whether there was another car there and, if
14 so, what the involvement of that car and its occupants
15 was.
Who was the fourth? It could not have been GL.
Follow the numbers.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: Nov 26 2005, 01:46 AM

Oct 11 2010, 05:10 PM #2

[quote=""numeral2"]She
14 saw, she recalls, six Asian males addressed in casual
15 clothing[/quote]
I took notes of what he said, and he said "6 Asian males dressed in Asian clothing"!
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: Nov 26 2005, 01:46 AM

Oct 11 2010, 05:52 PM #3

This part about the process of identification is deeply concerning. Why isn't this an important issue for the Coroner?[quote=""11/10/10 AM""]10 My Lady, one further area that I do not propose to
11 open in detail now, because you have properly determined
12 that it falls outside the scope of these inquests, is
13 that of identification.

14 It is clear to us that the process by which their
15 loved ones were identified, how they were informed of
16 their deaths and how they were informed only after the
17 formal disaster victim identification process was
18 complete has given rise to a huge amount of anguish on
19 the part of the families.
20 All I should say, because this is an issue which
21 doesn't fall within the scope of these inquests, is that
22 your coroner's officers in the Metropolitan Police have
23 fulfilled your direction that this issue should
24 nevertheless be separately addressed by way of
25 a separate report prepared and published by them for the

55

1 families.

2 That detailed report, which will be disclosed
3 shortly, shows that the Metropolitan Police have
4 endeavoured to explain how the complex disaster victim
5 identification system works and that it's obligated to
6 conform with a number of internationally agreed
7 protocols and that explains why the deceased were
8 removed from the scenes in the way that they were, why
9 the scenes had to be forensically searched in the way
10 that they were and why there were then necessarily
11 delays in informing their loved ones of their deaths.

12 They've addressed questions concerning the family
13 liaison officers, the Metropolitan Police Casualty
14 Bureau and specific concerns raised by a number of
15 families and they've also sought and obtained a witness
16 statement from the leading expert on this process of
17 disaster victim identification, Commander Bracken, who
18 was either involved in or in charge of matters at
19 Ladbroke Grove, the Selby disaster, Potters Bar,
20 Hatfield and the south-east Asian Tsunami. We very much
21 hope that that material will go some small way to
22 assuaging the concerns that have been expressed to us by
23 the families.[/quote]
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: Nov 26 2005, 01:46 AM

Oct 11 2010, 06:08 PM #4

We made the point in our submission that many of the bus victims required a bus to Old Street, which is not a destination served by the number 30, yet:
20 It's believed that Hussain took a number 91 bus
21 westbound from Gray's Inn Road to Euston where he
22 boarded the number 30 bus to Old Street.
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: Nov 26 2005, 01:46 AM

Oct 11 2010, 06:29 PM #5

Do different explosives have different effects? If these were unique explosives is it possible to plot blast injury types? Also, why weren't internal post mortems carried out on victims who showed no traumatic injuries?[quote=""11/10/10 AM""]17 your direction, Mr Martin Smith commissioned a team of
18 experts from the Defence Science and Technology
19 Laboratory and the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine to
20 address, in essence, the effects of explosive forces on
21 the human body and, in particular, whether it's possible
22 to plot blast injury types and therefore survivability
23 of blast injury in terms of proximity to the seat of an
24 explosion.
25 We have also been concerned to know something about

34

1 the extent to which primary blast injuries may be
2 suffered without external evidence of trauma, given that
3 the evidence so far disclosed reveals that some
4 passengers died although they appeared externally to
5 have suffered less severe injuries than some who
6 survived
-- I'm so sorry, they appeared externally to
7 have suffered less external injuries than some who
8 survived.
9 In a similar vein, some passengers survived,
10 notwithstanding the traumatic amputation of both legs,
11 whilst others succumbed.
12 These experts will also turn their attention, once
13 we have a better feel for where the scene evidence will
14 take us, to consideration of the facts of each
15 particular case. The experts intend to insert the
16 external injuries revealed by the post-mortem reports
17 into a computer-generated model of survivability in
18 order to express a view on whether those deceased who
19 may have survived the explosions might have been
20 expected to have lived, all other things being equal.
21 Of course, the absence of severe external injury in
22 some cases and the absence of material as to internal
23 injuries -- because there were, as we know, no internal
24 post-mortems -- may mean that they are unable to express
25 any views at all,
but we shall see and you have directed

35

1 that this is a course that is worth pursuing.
2 It is a task, however, that is unlikely to be
3 completed before Christmas.[/quote]
�To those who are afraid of the truth, I wish to offer a few scary truths; and to those who are not afraid of the truth, I wish to offer proof that the terrorism of truth is the only one that can be of benefit to the proletariat.� -- On Terrorism and the State, Gianfranco Sanguinetti
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: Dec 7 2005, 03:21 PM

Oct 11 2010, 06:53 PM #6

14

1 perpetrators are, of course, dead.
2 But again, I must emphasise it is not a proper
3 function of an inquest to attribute blame or apportion
4 guilt, or a proper function of mine to express opinions
5 on impermissible areas.
But Mr. Keith already has:
It
15 is also clear from the evidence that is available that
16 the four men who detonated the bombs were
17 Mohammed Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer, Jermaine Lindsay
18 and Hasib Hussain. To reflect the reality of the
19 position and to avoid legal sophistry, I intend to call
20 them "the bombers".
Not the first time, I suspect, that one statement will contradict another (even when uttered by the same person).
"We are not democrats for, among other reasons, democracy sooner or later leads to war and dictatorship. Just as we are not supporters of dictatorships, among other things, because dictatorship arouses a desire for democracy, provokes a return to democracy, and thus tends to perpetuate a vicious circle in which human society oscillates between open and brutal tyranny and a lying freedom." - Errico Malatesta, Democracy and Anarchy 1924
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: Nov 25 2005, 11:41 AM

Oct 11 2010, 07:00 PM #7

Kier @ Oct 11 2010, 07:53 PM wrote:
14

1 perpetrators are, of course, dead.
2 But again, I must emphasise it is not a proper
3 function of an inquest to attribute blame or apportion
4 guilt, or a proper function of mine to express opinions
5 on impermissible areas.
But Mr. Keith already has:
It
15 is also clear from the evidence that is available that
16 the four men who detonated the bombs were
17 Mohammed Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer, Jermaine Lindsay
18 and Hasib Hussain. To reflect the reality of the
19 position and to avoid legal sophistry, I intend to call
20 them "the bombers".
Not the first time, I suspect, that one statement will contradict another (even when uttered by the same person).
If today's morning session is anything to go by, the next five months will be quite some way removed from the traditional inquest process. It will instead deliver by stealth the "public inquiry" as demanded by a certain pseudonymous Rachel "North", a la "We all know what happened, we want to know why it wasn't prevented".

It will be shameful if that's how it transpires.
"The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you." -- Immortal Technique

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -- Malcolm X

"The eternal fight is not many battles fought on one level, but one great battle fought on many different levels." -- The Antagonist

"Truth does not fear investigation." -- Unknown
Quote
Like
Share