greyathena
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Joined: Oct 27th, '16, 00:36

Sep 13th, '17, 00:54 #26

Okay I'm only on episode four and I'm not reading the spoilers. But could someone please assure me that Robin shoots Alexander? Plzkthx.
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Quinn
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Sep 13th, '17, 01:29 #27

Do you really want the answer?
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Sep 13th, '17, 22:47 #28

Fun, tongue-in-cheek comments from Jane Campion about getting Gwen from HBO. SO very Jane and Gwen!!!
wrote:How difficult was it to get HBO to let you borrow Gwendoline Christie and Nicole Kidman?
We really did have a fight on our hands with HBO to release Gwendoline to our series, because they were quite jealous, you know. These aren’t actors, these are slaves. They’re not to go anywhere else! They can’t have a life outside of “Game of Thrones”!
I wrote a big, sobbing, begging letter to them saying, “I don’t think my letter is going to do much, but ...” and I told Gwendoline, “You better begin your campaign.” And she did. She told them that she needed this role to evolve as an actress, and if they didn’t release her, she was coming to Los Angeles to sit outside their offices. And if that didn’t work, she would sit outside their houses. I think they just went, “O.K.” Nicole didn’t have that same problem. And I can’t claim that Nicole needed the help to evolve, although the role is a reminder of her extraordinary comedic capacity. We tried to make her look as bad as possible, which was pretty hard. We gave her a bump on the nose, teeth that stuck out, freckles, and she still looked NIK GLEEFULLY WEARING HIS TINY HAT.
LINK to NY TImes article
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Marion
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Sep 13th, '17, 23:12 #29

Currawong wrote:Fun, tongue-in-cheek comments from Jane Campion about getting Gwen from HBO. SO very Jane and Gwen!!!
LINK to NY TImes article
This is great, also very funny to find out about Victor Svyatski, the "feminist" behind Pussy Riot and Femen whose reason for getting involved was primarily to meet women.
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Aerest
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Sep 14th, '17, 07:42 #30

I think we didn't have this article yet?
wrote:If Jane Campion’s first season of the crime drama “Top of the Lake” seemed remote and somber to some, the second season, “Top of the Lake: China Girl” has more of a sense of humor, even when delving into the darker recesses of life. (In this case, migrant sex workers, institutionalized misogyny, mental illness and more.) In the second season, which begins Sunday on Sundance, Elisabeth Moss’s detective Robin Griffin, who returns home to Australia after time in New Zealand, is assigned an overeager assistant, played by “Game of Thrones” star Gwendoline Christie.

Over the phone earlier this month, Ms. Christie spoke about becoming Robin’s reluctant partner, her own reluctance to take a stand on the issues the show raises and her meltdown on set. Following are edited excerpts from that conversation.

Jane Campion wrote the character of Miranda with you in mind?

I really wanted to be in this series, so I wrote to Jane, and I was lucky enough to have her write this part for me. It touches on aspects that I don’t always feel particularly comfortable with, but I think it’s important to highlight, and so we see Miranda being marginalized at work, the victim of misogyny. It’s not always comfortable to play those things. Yes, you’re at work, and yes, you’re just playing a part, but it’s so personal.

And yet at the same time, Miranda provides some of the comic relief.

I think the series is quite hilarious! It has a very, very dark sense of humor, but it’s extremely funny. Miranda is like an enthusiastic puppy. Miranda desperately wants to be friends, and she’s really governed by emotion in a way that Brienne of Tarth from “Game of Thrones” is not. Miranda is the complete opposite of Brienne. Brienne has a reflective thought process, and works things through with sustained thought. She takes her time. She pauses. And Miranda is totally impetuous. She’s also incredibly gauche. She’s gawky. She’s awkward. She’s too much. That’s a note that Jane gave me to constantly remember: “You’re too much.”

There’s a moment when Miranda tries to make someone laugh by pretending to be a space traveler, “Captain Miranda on Andromeda West.” Was that scene improv?

Yeah. [Laughs] Jane told me that she likes to wear a space helmet that belongs to a friend of hers, to relax, and they pretend to be on a spaceship, so we included that. It seemed to be the only way to give that scene the life it deserves, to go about it with abandon, to try to be as impetuous as Miranda. That’s who Miranda is. She’s a loon. She’s bizarre. She’s a fairly illogical person.

The case Robin and Miranda are investigating involves both prostitution and surrogacy – but it’s the prostitution that’s mostly legal, and the commercial surrogacy that’s illegal, which raises all sorts of interesting questions about the ownership of female bodies.

Jane Campion is a provocateur, and she wants that conversation to take place. I think it’s no secret that we live in a patriarchal society, but as we are also apparently civilized human beings, we are, I hope, continuing to experience more equality between the sexes. So I think these sorts of conversations are incredibly worthwhile and fascinating, and necessary, too. Jane has this unique way of delivering a story that is just filled with these machinations of womanhood and femininity. She’s described it as being positively ovarian. And so the idea of the right to choose and whose right is it to choose what happens to a woman’s body is a discussion that is essential.

So what’s your take on some of those issues? Do you have an opinion on whether or not prostitution should be legalized, from working on the series?

What I find as I get older is that I don’t always have a definitive opinion, and I think the process of my life is going to be consumed with trying to consolidate what it is that I think. I don’t know how I feel about it as a whole. I really don’t. I think Jane’s reason for choosing this subject matter, and choosing Australia as the background, because it is different than other places in the world, is that when you’re presented with a different representation of the world as you know it, it causes you to question everything. What are the reasons, for any behavior?

On a lighter note, how did you survive shooting for long stretches on Bondi Beach?

I have very sensitive skin, which I obviously installed in the character of Miranda, that she has very sensitive skin. [Laughs] I was scuttling into the shade every single moment I could get and begging for SPF. Absolutely begging for it! My goodness, the heat was so intense. At one point, my eyes started burning really intensely and I couldn’t see. Elisabeth Moss said to me, “Are you O.K.? Are you having a stroke?” [Laughs] And I didn’t know! I didn’t know! I said, “Let’s just keep going! As long as I can feel your presence, I’ll be able to follow you.”
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Marion
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Sep 14th, '17, 09:10 #31

I'm loving all the great coverage of ToTL and Gwen :D :D

I think Erin posted a ToTL article from Variety in the Gwen thread so I'm linking it here as well.

‘Top of the Lake’: Jane Campion Explores the Bonds of Motherhood in ‘China Girl’

Could this claim really be correct: "the series ranked as the highest in network history among adults 18-49". I had no idea that ToTL was getting such high ratings.

Also, apparently Gwen and Liz are "smitten with each other". Gwen shows it in the most hysterical way in the interview.
wrote:During Variety’s interview with Moss and Christie, the latter tenderly holds Moss’ foot in her hands. Unlike the rest of the “China Girl” team, the two actresses did not have a prior relationship. But they’re making up for lost time. In addition to their on-screen chemistry — which at times takes on a hilarious, odd-couple bent — the two are smitten with each other. So when Moss wanted to show Christie her sparkly new Tom Ford stilettos, Christie accepted her foot and cradled it as if it were a precious gift.

“I think in a previous life I was one of Lizzie’s charwomen,” she explains. Adds Moss, her foot still in Christie’s hands: “The most beloved one. A personal favorite.”

An hour after Moss and Christie first met, they improvised a scene between their characters that went in unexpected directions and left them both in tears. “We did the best acting of our life within an hour,” Moss says.
How do these interviewers keep it together during this kind of encounter with Gwen? I would just die of a laughter overdose.
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greyathena
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Sep 14th, '17, 09:35 #32

Quinn wrote:Do you really want the answer?
Ugh, I guess not, I've only got an hour left and I'll finish it tonight. Damn my inability to stay up past 9:30.

Seriously though, Gwen is great. What's fun are the occasional times when all of a sudden, from being mostly an incredibly different character, she says something that comes out totally Brienne. The scene in the car where she's telling Robin about Adrian felt like that to me.
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greyathena
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Sep 14th, '17, 23:23 #33

Wait, THAT's the end?
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Quinn
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Sep 15th, '17, 00:22 #34

Yes....

I still have many feelings, lol.
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Aerest
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Sep 15th, '17, 08:14 #35

Concerning the end (and probably the whole show) I am seriously and honestly looking forward to groupwatch to discuss this in real time! There is still so much that leaves me irritated/puzzled/wordless, stuff haven't completely digested yet.

Like Quinn, I still have many feelings. And with some months of break between the first and second watch I might even be able to utter them a little bit more eloquently/coherently this time.
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Marion
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Sep 15th, '17, 08:34 #36

Aerest wrote:Concerning the end (and probably the whole show) I am seriously and honestly looking forward to groupwatch to discuss this in real time!
Yay, ToTL is scheduled for Groupwatch! Will be so great to discuss it together.

Eish, so many questions and feelings

Greyathena I had exactly the same WTF reaction at the end of the series. I thought I had somehow mislaid a final episode.
:O
and then when I checked the spoilers here and realised it was really the final episode, grief

:no: :no: :no:
:headwall:
:headwall:
:( :( :(
Not reached acceptance yet
:blink: :no:

The cruel Jane Campion committed a deliberate act of genre sabotage.

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Sep 15th, '17, 19:17 #37

I have such conflicting emotions.

I liked the plot (particularly the focus on ethics and legality of surrogacy) and the acting was good. I disliked several characters because their actions didn't make sense for me. There were so many moments when I wanted to tell them -IS this for real? This is what's happening and this is what you choose to do/or not do? :headwall: Speaking of Gwen, I think she portrayed her character very well
[+] Spoiler
and her fate left me completely heartbroken
I was not happy with the ending. The last episode felt unfinished, like somebody had stopped the episode 15 minutes before the real ending, and rolled the credits too soon. You can't just leave this many storylines open! :mad:

I didn't bother to search for season 1, so there were some scenes that I didn't understand until I later educated myself on the topic via wikipedia :p I kind of wish they hadn't introduced any of this:
[+] Spoiler
the fiance, the attacker
, and the series would have still worked perfectly. I admit, I might think differently, had I actually watched the first season. :pirate:

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Sep 15th, '17, 20:55 #38

I would definitely encourage anyone who hasn't watched Season 1 yet to watch it BEFORE Season2
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Aerest
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Sep 15th, '17, 21:07 #39

Marion, does it explain anything of the points that were the most irritating / felt the most incomplete / frustrating?
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Marion
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Sep 15th, '17, 21:20 #40

Aerest wrote:Marion, does it explain anything of the points that were the most irritating / felt the most incomplete / frustrating?
Hrm, no not really, Aerest! Those frustrations are mostly in a totally different league. Except that perhaps after Season 1 you will have a better sense of Robin's story, relationships and personality. You'll also go into Season 2 expecting a different kind of storytelling to the normal detective series.

I was just warning that you would not enjoy Season 1 as much if you watch it after Season 2 (as I did).
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Currawong
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Sep 15th, '17, 22:07 #41

I am still watching the series - we have two more eps to go. But I have read many reviews and comments, and was wondering whether some of the frustration lies in expecting this to be more or less a typical detective series, with its focus on detection and a crime. Certainly I have many questions and issues about the crime-solving aspects, but I get the impression that for Jane Campion, exploring personal issues and relationships here was always much more important than the detecting part. The crime is merely the setting as it were, not the core of the story.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a dam fool about it.
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Aerest
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Sep 15th, '17, 22:30 #42

Curra, let's talk about this once you finished watching :)
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Marion
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Sep 15th, '17, 22:52 #43

Currawong wrote:for Jane Campion, exploring personal issues and relationships here was always much more important than the detecting part. The crime is merely the setting as it were, not the core of the story.
That's definitely true, Curra. Campion is telling us that we are asking the wrong questions. The story is not just about identifying deviance and restoring the status quo (the usual "whodunnit?" or even "who is bad and who is good?") but asking "why are they like this?" and reserving judgement about a whole range of characters who deviate from the "norm".

I do "get" this cognitively but still yearn after better resolution in the story.
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Quinn
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Sep 16th, '17, 01:29 #44

Curra, for me, my reaction are not based on wishing this were a "normal" detective story. I knew what to expect from season 1 and Campion in general, and I do tend to enjoy unusual ways of storytelling. My frustrations stem entirely from some aspects specific to this series and mostly the wrap-ups, so yes let's definitely return to this when you've finished!
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greyathena
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Sep 16th, '17, 14:47 #45

Oh, I hope it's still on Comcast by the time of groupwatch! I only DVRed parts three through six because I managed to stay awake for all of one and two. :). Looking forward to that! because yeah, there was some stuff. Some weird-ass stuff.
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IsolaCaramella
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Sep 16th, '17, 22:30 #46

All of the parental back talk is making my eye twitch
This daughter would drive me to drink Ay dios mio
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IsolaCaramella
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Sep 17th, '17, 00:58 #47

I am puzzled.
Quinn wrote:Curra, for me, my reaction are not based on wishing this were a "normal" detective story. I knew what to expect from season 1 and Campion in general, and I do tend to enjoy unusual ways of storytelling. My frustrations stem entirely from some aspects specific to this series and mostly the wrap-ups, so yes let's definitely return to this when you've finished!
For me, everyone is incredibly frustrating because they behave like complete idiots, Mary? Pyke, Nicole Kidman's character whose name I didn't bother to remember are the core of my frustration. As a parent, i found their entire dynamic, negligent seems too soft a word, but it's the best I can come up with right now. The entire family made me want to commit violence.
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Sep 17th, '17, 04:06 #48

Isola, I gather we are going to do a groupwatch and full discussion of the show in a few weeks time, so we can all channel our views and frustrations then. I will only say that I don't think Jane Campion "does" nice normal families!! ;)
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a dam fool about it.
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IsolaCaramella
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Sep 17th, '17, 11:19 #49

Currawong wrote:Isola, I gather we are going to do a groupwatch and full discussion of the show in a few weeks time, so we can all channel our views and frustrations then. I will only say that I don't think Jane Campion "does" nice normal families!! ;)
It finally hit me this morning why I ended up disliking the storyline this season, it was right in front of my face but I was too frustrated to see it properly. Now I'm no longer puzzled.
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Marion
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Sep 17th, '17, 11:24 #50

IsolaCaramella wrote: As a parent, i found their entire dynamic, negligent seems too soft a word, but it's the best I can come up with right now. The entire family made me want to commit violence.
Isola I'm also really looking forward to discussing this more after the groupwatch. For now I'll just say that I freaked out a lot. As a divorced mom I did NOT enjoy having to confront so much of myself in Julia (thankfully not the totally bonkers stuff, touch wood and pray to the seven).
Basically how I'm looking at it now, the middle class mothers whom we might expect to be presented most sympathetically are not, while the mothers who are usually othered, pathologised and stigmatised come off a lot better. I think Dang is particularly interesting as mama-san. Yet this remains frustrating because there's not enough time given to the women's characters in SIlk 41 while that ghastly Puss takes up so much of the narrative.


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