koops
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jun 23rd, '16, 22:23

Sep 10th, '18, 20:54 #9901

So I was bored and I read through all the notes on this old post that JBO Tumblr reblogged today and I'm constantly baffled at the idiocy of the arguments people make. Besides the fact that some didn't catch the sarcasm in the OP (and, granted, sarcasm sometimes flies over my head too, but... come on, now!), I think the "best of" is represented by this exchange between a poster and Ginmo and Glamaphonic, where this poster keeps going "but noooo! why Jaime", these two poor souls try to make reasoned arguments for why the story develops the way it does and all they get in response is more "But Martin could choose to have any other man but Jaime! Why Jaime! Bwaaaa!". 





Do these people understand that Jaime is a fictional character and not a real man that George has decided to force real-woman Brienne into a relationship with? Do they understand that writers write a story with intentions and meaning and for a reason? That the main purpose of writing is to take characters on journeys, challenge them and develop them? That George is trying to make a point with Jaime and Brienne that wouldn't have existed if they were NOT Jaime and Brienne?? 

Why am I asking?  Of course they don't understand. *sigh* 
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Mikki
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jun 18th, '14, 15:23

Sep 10th, '18, 21:09 #9902

I love glam and her sarcasm :)
My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating. - Ashleigh Brilliant
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NamelessPasserby
Mario Lopez
Mario Lopez
Joined: Jun 19th, '14, 05:26

Sep 15th, '18, 05:21 #9903

Lol what is this poor nutter on?



They mean back in the day when they wrongly thought Lena and Nik shipped J/C and now crazy fans aka J/C shippers attack Nikolaj for bursting their bubble because he speaks out against their gross ship.
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Cerenna of Highgarden
Cock Merchant
Cock Merchant
Joined: Sep 22nd, '16, 02:33

Sep 15th, '18, 05:25 #9904

Oh, but you see? It doesn't apply to them, just us 'mean jb shippers' 😂
"That is sad. Though perhaps it's for the best. The whole notion of marriage seems to confuse you"
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TeamGwenee
Half a God
Half a God
Joined: Oct 18th, '17, 17:35

Sep 15th, '18, 13:28 #9905

So according to J/C shippers, Jaime doesn't deserve to be in a healthy relationship and to get away from his toxic relationship with Cersei because he is a bad person. By that logic, does that mean Cersei didn't deserve better than her abusive relationship with Robert?
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Mikki
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jun 18th, '14, 15:23

Sep 16th, '18, 05:17 #9906

Have we seen this latest navel gazing?
some fandom things i was thinking about whilst doing my nighttime skincare routine. i’m going to try to be a little less casual with my language compared to my other opinion posts (no guarantees, because it is 3:00 am) because i think these points are more Important and Worth Discussing than previous ones have been.
so…it’s no secret that jaime/brienne is a notp of mine. it goes beyond notp territory; it makes me physically nauseated, makes my stomach go into knots when i see content on my dashboard. part of it is because i’ve had bad experiences with j/b shippers sending anon hate and generally being very rude to me; part of it is because i highly disapprove of the way the j/b fandom tends to pit brienne against cersei as if it’s a fight. (as if jaime is a catch worth fighting over – pfft.) 
but there’s more to it than that, and i think there are a couple things worth discussing because quite often j/b is held up on a pedestal as a Good, Pure, Healthy ship and – well, it isn’t one.
the first thing that i think people tend to forget is that there’s a large age difference between them. in the books, jaime was born in 266 ac. brienne was born in 280 ac. that’s a fourteen-year age difference – and when considering that brienne is only nineteen at the beginning of the series, it starts to look a little shady. i’m not saying no ships with large age differences can be healthy, nor am i shaming anyone who ships age difference ships, but it is something to consider–
–especially when also considering the differences in their life experiences and romantic/sexual maturity levels. brienne has never had a romantic relationship. throughout her life, she’s been teased, made fun of, taunted, bullied, and mocked by potential suitors and when a man (renly) showed her the merest sliver of kindness, she fell head over heels with him. i don’t believe brienne was in love with him – i believe she was infatuated him, much the same way adolescents become infatuated with first crushes and celebrities they’re fans of when they begin to experience romantic and sexual interest in others for the first time. brienne is like a fifth-grade kid doodling love hearts in her notebook and writing out her name with her crush’s last name to see how it looks. romantically, she’s quite naive; sexually, she has no experience to speak of.
compare this to jaime, who has spent his entire life codependent and obsessed with one woman – his sister, cersei. their sexual development together began very early, when joanna caught them playing at mating like the animals they’d seen doing the same. i don’t believe we learn canonically when their first real kisses took place, those that went beyond typical sibling pecks, but i would imagine it was around the time jaime was sent to crakehall at the age of eleven. they had sex for the first time at the age of fifteen. when agot begins, they are thirty-two. (in the show, their romantic and sexual relationship has lasted even longer – they are forty.) jaime and cersei, in their pov chapters, often think things like “we are one person in two bodies”; “we were born together; we will die together”; “if i were [the opposite gender], i would be [the opposite twin]”: notions that romanticize their relationship as twins and indicate a deep obsession with each other. they are entirely codependent upon each other. 
even when, in the book series, jaime is informed of cersei’s “infidelity” (this is a topic for another meta lol but i don’t believe cersei thought of her sexual relations with others as ‘cheating’ at all), he obsesses about it. in the show, we’ve just seen him return to king’s landing after being away at riverrun to find that cersei has burned down the sept. they exchange a look; jaime is in shock, confused. something important to remember here is that no one but grrm knows if this is the end of their romantic and sexual relationship or not. personally, i don’t believe that it is (again, this is a topic for another meta), but the fandom has by and large decided that jaime has washed his hands of cersei for good.
i don’t think it’s possible for someone who has spent their entire life consumed by the idea of another person to wash their hands of that person for good. they say the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference – and jaime is not indifferent to cersei. not even close. 
the above are all things i’ve said before, though. here’s what i’ve been thinking about tonight:
it would be an absolute disaster if these two people were to attempt a romantic relationship. one would be naive and uncertain if events in the relationship were normal or not, uncertain if she was being treated right or not, uncertain if she is part of a healthy couple or not; the other would inevitably be thinking of the woman he spent his entire life previously with – in jaime’s case, i’m not sure it would be possible for him to even try not to, to try to block those thoughts.
and that’s not to mention how awful jaime is to brienne – when they first meet, yes, but it never entirely disappears. this is a relationship that, were it to become canon, would have begun with misogynistic slurs and barbed insults being thrown mercilessly from one party to the other, who has heard similar things her entire life. this is a relationship that one party would be taking part in DESPITE the other’s looks, instead of BECAUSE of them. that doesn’t just scream romance to me.
understand the appeal of jaime/brienne. i do. it’s the classic “mean girl loses the guy to the unpopular girl” high school romance. it’s the story behind avril lavigne’s sk8r boi – a song that used to be my favorite; a song that i’m ashamed of having had as a favorite, given how deeply misogynist and fucked up the lyrics are. 
but i believe brienne deserves better.
and i believe however jaime’s story ends, it will be with cersei’s story as inextricably entwined with it as ever, ending at the same time.
My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating. - Ashleigh Brilliant
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sapphire-lions
Half a God
Half a God
Joined: Apr 17th, '16, 07:16

Sep 16th, '18, 06:08 #9907

Desperate is desperate.
 
Never mind that the Old Gods literally show Cersei fading away into the darkness to follow Tywin/Joffrey/all past Lannisters and Jaime carries on in what is described as his place with Brienne. And that those are two very separate fates. Or that the script notes state Jaime "is never looking back again" when he leaves KL. Born-together die-together. It's all that matters. 🙄
 
Also, pitting Brienne against Cersei? Bish, please. It’s Cersei who’s calling Brienne “that creature” in the books and staring daggers at her on the show.
 
A. Cersei is jealous af.
B. She should be.
C. Brienne is doing her own thing. Not her fault she’s caugh Jaime’s eye.
D. Brienne is above petty catfights. No one wants that for her.
E. It's not a competition. Cersei has already been dumped.  
F. Jaime and Brienne are going to bang. Dude is single and will be moving on. 😝
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NamelessPasserby
Mario Lopez
Mario Lopez
Joined: Jun 19th, '14, 05:26

Sep 16th, '18, 06:27 #9908

Do these J/Crazies just copy and paste each other's pissy essays or what? 😎

You know you're on the winning team when the delusional anti is furiously banging out an essay at 3am about why their notp is like soOoOo pRoBlEmAtiC aNd eVoL while trying and failing to prop up their abusive incest Otp at the same time. 😂 The only thing these anti-J/B essays actually succeed at is proving that the insecurity is very strong with these people. Good! 😏 
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Quinn
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jul 8th, '14, 04:26

Sep 16th, '18, 06:37 #9909

They sure spend a weird amount of time caring about our reactions...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I write J/B fic: Ao3 / I re-blog other people's fandom pics: Tumblr
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eliza
Shipper
Shipper
Joined: May 30th, '17, 14:24

Sep 16th, '18, 07:52 #9910

i believe however jaime’s story ends, it will be with cersei’s story as inextricably entwined with it as ever, ending at the same time.
In no part of the books or the show has their story actually been 'inextricably entwined'. They have spent most of the books and the seasons away from each other. Their relationship may have caused them to make certain decisions which had an impact on their life, but that was before the story fully started (Jaime made most of the life-altering decisions for Cersei, she didn't exactly do it for him). Their respective story lines are completely divorced from each other and both are making their own decisions based on their own personalities, they are not currently inextricably linked to each other. They never were, as far as their direct plot was concerned, except in the beginning (MELISANDRE'S BOYTOY). After that they've mostly been doing their own thing even if they kept thinking about the other person (Jaime confronting PA INGALLS was for Tyrion, not Cersei).
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koops
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jun 23rd, '16, 22:23

Sep 16th, '18, 08:30 #9911

They truly live in their own world. I have seen people deny J/B are ever going to be a thing because “Jaime will never love anyone but Cersei” and “Brienne is ugly” and all the various flavors of “respection and bromance” most fanboys believe these two to have. But what I have never seen is people claim J/B makes them “physically nauseated” or express such negative reactions to the idea of a relationship between them because even the above cannot deny how healthy and good of a dynamic J/B have. They might believe it to be friendship and nothing more, but nobody in their right mind will claim their dynamic isn’t positive.

And the way they try to hide their visceral reaction to J/B behind the smokescreen of the “evil J/B shippers” and all this nonsense that probably only happens in their heads or because of their inability to follow someone’s argument (if you want to blame someone for pitting Cersei against Brienne, that someone is George Purple-Wedding RR Martin) is simultaneously hilarious and disturbing. It always stands out to me how their posts read so much like Cersei’s own delusions in her own chapters, completely disconnected from reality.
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Twirly
Almost a Knight
Almost a Knight
Twirly
Almost a Knight
Almost a Knight
Joined: May 28th, '17, 08:08

Sep 16th, '18, 09:19 #9912

this is a relationship that one party would be taking part in DESPITE the other’s looks, instead of BECAUSE of them
UGH! Just ugh! And that right there basically sums up their thoughts. You cannot love someone who isn't beautiful. Ugly people are not allowed to have romance as you can only love someone because of how they look. What a shallow view to have. 

They have missed the entire point of Brienne's storyline. The fact is, and is one of the things I love the most about JB and Jaime as character is that he does love Brienne DESPITE of what she looks like. I know Gwendoline is a goddess but Brienne is canonically ugly, no makeovers or magic will change that, that is who she is, but Jaime doesn't see that, he sees the beauty of HER, that is what is so special about their story. Yes, he finds her eyes astonishing and he is physically attracted to her too, but it's not because she's some gorgeous supermodel, he just loves the whole of her, as she comes.

I just feel rather bad for them, as imagine reading/watching this story and not appreciating the essence of it.
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TeamGwenee
Half a God
Half a God
Joined: Oct 18th, '17, 17:35

Sep 16th, '18, 09:32 #9913

Jaime doesn't love Brienne because of her looks or despite of them, he loves her regardless.
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koops
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jun 23rd, '16, 22:23

Sep 16th, '18, 09:39 #9914

I was just discussing this yesterday with someone. Yes, there ARE instances, early on especially, when Jaime calls her ugly, but, for the most part, all Jaime does is observe her body obsessively and describe what he sees factually. It is the reader who infers that his observations are negative because we have been conditioned to find only certain kinds of feature attractive, so that when one, for example, describes a woman as having big muscles, or hands bigger than a man’s, they automatically associate that with “unattractive”, despite the fact that the phrase “big muscles” in and of itself has no inherently positive or negative connotation.

There is also a big difference between beauty and attraction. The two often correlate, but not always. Some people are attracted to features that other people do not find attractive at all. I can think of a friend of mine who always had a thing for girls who were not at all slim and toned, to put it mildly. Brienne will never be beautiful, will never be conventionally attractive, but that doesn’t mean some of her features (astonishing eyes aside) cannot be considered attractive by someone.

So I would argue it isn’t the case at all the Jaime loves her DESPITE her looks. The case with Jaime, I believe, is more a case of “when you love someone, everything about them becomes attractive”. So, to me, this whole “loves her despite her looks” is a straw man argument.
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jennyssong
Hodor
Hodor
Joined: Sep 8th, '18, 18:09

Sep 16th, '18, 09:46 #9915

It does say something that they feel so threatened by a ship that it invades their thoughts while they're doing something as mundane as washing their face, and upsets them enough that they need to immediately write an essay about it. People who actually support the endurance of a toxic, incestuous relationship that leads to crippled children and helps start wars are hard to understand, but to be this invested in it is downright unsettling. 

In a good story, things develop and grow, they shouldn't remain static throughout, who wants to read about that? Despite the impression some seem to have, George RR Martin isn't writing a nihilistic, fatalistic story, with a hopeless message. Or I don't think so, anyway. It is true that both Jaime and Cersei have thought or said something about being halves of a whole or leaving the world together as they entered it. Aside from there being no reason to believe that something is true just because a character thinks it...correct me if I'm wrong, but all instances of Jaime thinking this occur before his rebirth in the bathtub (although I like someone else's analysis where the conception of his rebirth happens with their sexual swordfight, and he gestates over their journey to Harrenhal, complete with umbillical cord rope around his waist, but I digress). 

Perhaps it was once true that the twins' fates were tied together, but that bond is broken with this rebirth process, and a new one is formed. Jaime is in the womb again in the bath, but with a very different blond female with time, his soul mate and future sword twin, and when they emerge, if anybody's fates are tied together, it's now theirs. It is interesting how their departures from the womb vary and relate to their relationships, too - Cersei leaves first and Jaime follows close behind, clinging to her. Brienne also exits first, and although it is because he provoked her and she doesn't want to be in there with him, she stays close by, and waits, and listens, and ultimately drops everything to help him out, when he has difficulty getting himself out. She plays midwife as well as twin. I like the symbolism, it is so much about two people stripped bare, and about changing perceptions and second chances, it would be a real let down if he just reverted back to his old ways. Not that people don't fail at their fresh starts and go back to addictions and toxic relationships in real life, but... you know.

It is also noteworthy how different the contexts of their "born together, die together" statements are - when Jaime thinks it, he is trying to convince himself that he has a reason to stay alive, that his family still have need of him, and he must not leave his siblings alone in this world. When Cersei says it, it is basically "If I'm going down, I'm taking him with me". Which seems to be maybe the attitude of J/C shippers like the one quoted above, so, that explains things?

The part where they pretend to care about Brienne and how she deserves better is absolute bollocks. If they really gave a damn, they'd feel that what she actually wanted was important to the matter. So they've decided it's for her own good not to have the requited affections of the person she has fallen in love with, not to be with the person who probably knows her better than anyone else, who has put more trust in her than he has in anyone else, the person with whom she shares understanding and experiences, because he's not perfect enough. Too old, too messed up, whatever. I wonder who they would like to see her with. I doubt their preference takes how Brienne would feel about it into account what so ever!
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LadyAnnKathrin
Ser Cleos
Ser Cleos
Joined: Aug 23rd, '18, 08:51

Sep 16th, '18, 10:41 #9916

jennyssong wrote: In a good story, things develop and grow, they shouldn't remain static throughout, who wants to read about that?
I think some people are not good at anticipating "twists" in stories because they take everything at face value. For example in the beginning of the story two characters say that they will die together and a part of the audience thinks that it will happen that way because it's such a strong "foreshadowing". But that's not how foreshadowing works, characters saying what they want and think and how they feel is not foreshadowing, especially if they say those in the beginning, before their journey and character development start. On the contrary, it usually shows that there will be a surprising twist related it in the end. Stories like this are based on twists, they are designed to surprise and shock people. It's a twist when Jaime and Cersei who seemed inseparable in the beginning get separated in the end, or when two people that you thought could never get together ended up together. In the beginning Jaime thinks and says that Brienne is ugly and he would never be interested in her, and he would never love and be with anyone but Cersei, only because they will become an item later. It's a twist planned by the writers only to shock the part of the audience that can't anticipate twists like this. This part of the audience can't foresee the changes in general.

jennyssong wrote: The part where they pretend to care about Brienne and how she deserves better is absolute bollocks.
Saying that someone "deserves better" when it comes to romantic relationships is nonsense in general anyway. Because no matter who you are with, some people always think that you deserve better than that person or he deserves better than you 🙂 It's such a subjective concept and I don't think people would ever find love and happiness if they made their romantic choices based on some people's opinions about what and whom they deserve or not.
Last edited by LadyAnnKathrin on Sep 16th, '18, 10:44, edited 1 time in total.
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sapphire-lions
Half a God
Half a God
Joined: Apr 17th, '16, 07:16

Sep 16th, '18, 10:43 #9917

koops wrote: I was just discussing this yesterday with someone. Yes, there ARE instances, early on especially, when Jaime calls her ugly, but, for the most part, all Jaime does is observe her body obsessively and describe what he sees factually. It is the reader who infers that his observations are negative because we have been conditioned to find only certain kinds of feature attractive, so that when one, for example, describes a woman as having big muscles, or hands bigger than a man’s, they automatically associate that with “unattractive”, despite the fact that the phrase “big muscles” in and of itself has no inherently positive or negative connotation.

There is also a big difference between beauty and attraction. The two often correlate, but not always. Some people are attracted to features that other people do not find attractive at all. I can think of a friend of mine who always had a thing for girls who were not at all slim and toned, to put it mildly. Brienne will never be beautiful, will never be conventionally attractive, but that doesn’t mean some of her features (astonishing eyes aside) cannot be considered attractive by someone.

So I would argue it isn’t the case at all the Jaime loves her DESPITE her looks. The case with Jaime, I believe, is more a case of “when you love someone, everything about them becomes attractive”.  So, to me, this whole “loves her despite her looks” is a straw man argument.
100% agree!

First off, the dude pops a boner when he sees her naked body. So the physical attraction is there and is strong enough to cause immediate involuntary sexual arousal. 

There is also the way Jaime thinks of Brienne in his weirwood dream. He dreams her up as being fully nude and "In this light she could almost be a beauty." The way he describes her as being strong, tall, and fierce is actually quite flattering. Which goes to show that whatever he may say when he's awake, subconsciously, he has a clear appreciation for Brienne's physicality. 

Then there's the fact that Jaime hasn't thought anything derogatory about Brienne since his confrontation with the Red Ronnet. When she shows up at his camp, he scrambles to his feet for her. She is in an extremely poor condition, yet at no point does Jaime think of how ugly she looks. His thoughts express only concern for her well-being.

When he finally allows himself he explore his love for Brienne, he's going to be overwhelmed with how much he wants her. 
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Bad Direwolf Mutt
Cock Merchant
Cock Merchant
Joined: May 31st, '16, 11:15

Sep 16th, '18, 14:44 #9918

TeamGwenee wrote: So according to J/C shippers, Jaime doesn't deserve to be in a healthy relationship and to get away from his toxic relationship with Cersei because he is a bad person. By that logic, does that mean Cersei didn't deserve better than her abusive relationship with Robert?
I love this tea. XD

*continues on stalking*
(づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ o(≧▽≦)o I CANNOT EVEN---! because I'm odd.~ σ(≧ε≦σ) ♡ (ಠ o ಠ)¤=[]:::::>

A Girl Has Many Usernames: Tumblr | ArchiveOfOurOwn | DeviantArt | Fanfiction

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Allison
Almost a Knight
Almost a Knight
Allison
Almost a Knight
Almost a Knight
Joined: Apr 12th, '18, 23:48

Sep 16th, '18, 20:40 #9919

and when considering that brienne is only nineteen at the beginning of the series
This is the ONLY thing that bothers me *slightly* in the books, because this bothers me in real life situations. Not the 14(ish?) year age difference, but the fact that Brienne is only 19 and therefore in a very different place in maturity than a man in his 30s (although you could argue that Jaime is also not mature in the romantic sense... he has been in an abusive, toxic relationship for so long and he has really never experienced a true, healthy relationship either). However, it's also important to consider the time in which these books are set.

The rest of her writing sounds like she really misinterpreted the books to me, and her last sentence about "Jaime dying with Cersei because they're irrevocably linked" blah blah blah just showed to me that she's a desperate J/C shipper trying to crap all over the ship that is actually THE WAR FOR JON'S DICK (TM TeamGwenee) because it 'threatens' her ship. So in actuality, she's doing exactly what she said she didn't like about JB shippers; she argued that JB shippers pit Brienne against Cersei, but is she not doing this in a sense by getting all defensive and then saying "oh yeah his destiny is with Cersei and not Brienne" (quote is not exact)?

It really is unfortunate that someone sent anon hate to her. That isn't acceptable for anyone to do for any reason.
it’s no secret that jaime/brienne is a notp of mine. it goes beyond notp territory; it makes me physically nauseated, makes my stomach go into knots when i see content on my dashboard.
... Oh, man. Sorry to hear that (sarcasm). Have a trash can ready when you watch season 8... 
Last edited by Allison on Sep 16th, '18, 21:33, edited 1 time in total.
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koops
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jun 23rd, '16, 22:23

Sep 16th, '18, 21:06 #9920

The thing with “anon hate” of these J/C stans is that you never know how much is genuine anon hate and how much is fake anon hate. They constantly have sock puppet accounts on Reddit to agree with themselves and upvote their posts and I remember there being “anon” posts that read nothing like a J/B shipper would write. So... yeah. I’m sure there are a-holes in the J/B fandom as in any fandom, but in my experience there’s very little to suggest the majority, or even half, are as “evil” as they want us to be.

Re: Brienne’s age... the thing with Jaime is that he’s extremely immature when it comes to interpersonal relationships. He has, for all intents and purposes, arrested his development the day he took that white cloak. He might be 32 when the books start, but he acts more like a 20-something yo. So while there is a substantial age gap, I think it’s offset by Jaime’s stunted emotional development.
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Mikki
Evenstar
Evenstar
Joined: Jun 18th, '14, 15:23

Sep 16th, '18, 21:24 #9921

I have never understood what ‘hate’ means in the context of the internet.  Disagreeing with someone, letting them know you disagree with them, presenting arguments regarding that disagreement, is discourse, not hate. The problem I see is that many of these tumblr blogs want to put their opinions out there and have no one disagree with them.  That’s just not the way the world works.

I would describe hate as personal insults. I get plenty of those via Tumblr. The solution is to turn off anonymous messages. Ultimately we are all responsible for our own internet experience. 

But yeah, mostly it’s sock puppet accounts who send tumblr anons. And personally, who cares? Someone on the internet said something mean to me. ...And?
My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating. - Ashleigh Brilliant
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Allison
Almost a Knight
Almost a Knight
Allison
Almost a Knight
Almost a Knight
Joined: Apr 12th, '18, 23:48

Sep 16th, '18, 21:27 #9922

koops wrote: The thing with “anon hate” of these J/C stans is that you never know how much is genuine anon hate and how much is fake anon hate. They constantly have sock puppet accounts on Reddit to agree with themselves and upvote their posts and I remember there being “anon” posts that read nothing like a J/B shipper would write. So... yeah. I’m sure there are a-holes in the J/B fandom as in any fandom, but in my experience there’s very little to suggest the majority, or even half, are as “evil” as they want us to be.
Very true! Of course the majority of us aren't going to do that. There might be a few, but I never would suggest that a large number of JB shippers send hate. Most JB shippers I've met online are super reasonable people!
Re: Brienne’s age... the thing with Jaime is that he’s extremely immature when it comes to interpersonal relationships. He has, for all intents and purposes, arrested his development the day he took that white cloak. He might be 32 when the books start, but he acts more like a 20-something yo. So while there is a substantial age gap, I think it’s offset by Jaime’s stunted emotional development.
Agreed! That's kinda how I resolved my own thoughts in my own post as an afterthought!
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ballade
Cock Merchant
Cock Merchant
ballade
Cock Merchant
Cock Merchant
Joined: Mar 13th, '17, 17:31

Sep 16th, '18, 22:01 #9923

I don’t believe a word of the “anon hate” because J/C shippers are always the ones saying horrid things about Brienne! I guess they thought the show might be keeping J/C together after all because the breakup happened at a later point in the timeline than Jaime burning her letter but DANG, it’s not like George didn’t seed this into the VERY FIRST TIME J/B meet!

I mean hello, first Catelyn is told that Brienne has the Beauty nickname, and then in her inner monologue, we get this: “Beauty they called her … mocking … Brienne’s eyes were large and very blue, a young girl’s eyes, trusting and guileless, but the rest … “ And when she brings Brienne to Jaime’s cell in Riverrun, she thinks THIS:

“Jaime Lannister had been allowed no razor since the night he was taken in the Whispering Wood, and a shaggy beard covered his face, once so like the queen’s. Glinting gold in the lamplight, the whiskers made him look like some great yellow beast, magnificent even in chains.”

It’s not as though it’s even a tad bit subtle. If you’re going to insist that Jaime’s remarks about “I cannot die while Cersei lives” are foreshadowing of his inevitable murder/suicide, then please to explain why Catelyn, who presents us with the Beauty and Beast lines, also throws together Brienne the Beauty and the Great Golden Beast and then, when they’re separated, Catelyn’s vengeful revenant engineers their meeting again. What’s that all about? GRRM is pretty damn fond of his B&B trope and this is all pretty damn deliberate.

I’m amazed at the lack of reading comprehension and basic critical thinking skills!
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Erin
Evenstar
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Joined: Apr 23rd, '16, 14:44

Sep 16th, '18, 23:42 #9924

As far as the concern regarding Jaime and Brienne's age gap ... 14 years difference is really nothing compared to the nearly 50 year age gap between 16-year-old Brienne and 65-year-old Ser Humphrey Wagstaff. And Brienne was expected to be completely fine with it.

Here's hoping this person isn't also a Brienne and T.ormund convenience shipper considering T.ormund is much older in the books.
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Cerenna of Highgarden
Cock Merchant
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Joined: Sep 22nd, '16, 02:33

Sep 17th, '18, 09:12 #9925

Erin wrote: As far as the concern regarding Jaime and Brienne's age gap ... 14 years difference is really nothing compared to the nearly 50 year age gap between 16-year-old Brienne and 65-year-old Ser Humphrey Wagstaff. And Brienne was expected to be completely fine with it.

Here's hoping this person isn't also a Brienne and T.ormund convenience shipper considering T.ormund is much older in the books.
If the OP happens to have any B/T related content on their profile then that would be pretty telling and it wouldn't be a surprise since it seems like quite a few of these stans are quick to claim that Brienne deserves better than Jaime and in the same breath gush about how 'perfect' GINGERPEST is for her. Anything to get her out of the way of the 'beautiful true love' that is the twincest! 😒
"That is sad. Though perhaps it's for the best. The whole notion of marriage seems to confuse you"
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