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That what is confusing me. I'd take a coach any day over an up-specced city double decker bus. The above is all nice, but in the end the ride in terms of smoothness and noise will be FAR superior on a coach then an up-specced city bus, no comparison at all really.SL10 wrote: My point being is that Translink is trying to innovate and move local services more upmarket similar to what is happening across the UK with the trend towards more upmarket double decks on routes with leather seats, 2+1 arrangements, wood effect flooring, skylights, stairs glazing, tables, sockets etc.
But wasn't it BE themselves who ordered the new Expressway buses with seats with very limited legroom and less comfortable seats, not the NTA?SL10 wrote: The BE spec while not like the above was a relatively good standard, in particular the seating where a more upmarket seat was installed. However the NTA have now taken charge and are ordering smaller buses with much more basic seats. No matter what way it is looked at it is a backwards step rather then going forwards.
Again, I honestly don't see that to be the case at all. The truth is the CIE companies were always conservative and often made terrible decisions. No double deckers in Cork, only single door buses in DB, no toilets/wifi/plugs on Expressway, double decker coaches with little luggage space operating to the airport. Those were idiotic DB/BE decisions, not NTA.SL10 wrote: Of course in Northern Ireland Translink are allowed operate, develop and innovate on their services as they see fit. Unfortunately in the republic CIE is being micromanaged by the NTA which is stifling innovation. In addition the NTA’s own branding and tendering seem to be its main focus rather then maybe looking to innovate on the specification of buses.
While I agree they are less comfortable, the reality is it is more inline with what people want, people don't want to "share" a seat with the person next to them. The new seats feel more modern to the average DB user, then the old fashioned lover seats. Pros and cons, trade offsVWL119 wrote: While by necessity the Dublin Bus spec is a bit more practical than what BÉ offers, at the end of the day, the fixed seats are actually significantly less comfortable than the bench seats they replaced.
I literally couldn't disagree with you more. EVERY city bus needs at least two doors and they need to be used at every stop (or passenger operated).VWL119 wrote: There is no need for dual door buses whatsoever in Dublin, apart from the VTs (which of course the NTA will be replacing with SGs next year), they cost a fair bit more to buy, nobody uses the centre doors even when the drivers use them (I always get off at the front anyway, I like to thank the driver for what is often a thankless job) and they've robbed seats.
Seemingly the TGX's are to be replaced too, thank you god. And we are likely to see a 90 minute flat fare and less driver interaction. We should then be able to do a better flow of enter via front door, no driver interaction, just tag-on and exit via rear door. Not the ideal, but still way better then the current setup.VWL119 wrote: When we have some sort of rapid transit network and/or they make people pay for their tickets before they board the bus, then yes, dual door is an advantage - but Dublin is far too congested, and anyway the best source of delay in Dublin is the antiquated TGX ticket machines - we're long overdue more modern technology, and also flat fares (which at least is part of the NTA proposals in fairness to them).
The city buses in Cork are starting to get busy enough on some routes to need dual doors too now IMO. I do think the Cork double deckers seem nicer otherwise. I particularly like the nice mutli-line next stop screens, much better then DB's useless one.VWL119 wrote: The BÉ spec was also significantly better - no dual doors, no short wheel base, proper seats (and a lot more of them), and so on.
I have to say I find the seats of DB buses to be reasonable for a city bus service. A city bus service is supposed to be mass transit. Transport lots of people to their destination as quickly as possible. Comfortable seats and slow buses that take ages to get anywhere shouldn't be the focus of DB (BE commuter services is obviously different).VWL119 wrote: The spec in the UK has moved on an awful lot over the past few years, while we're staying stuvk in the past with low spec uncomfortable seats. If profit dirven privates can do it, then there is no excuse at all for buses being bought at the taxpayers' expense.
The definition of 'commuter' up north is different to what it means in the south - these are not replacing coaches, they're replacing normal buses (Mostly ALX400 double deckers and Scania/Wright single deckers) so they are a step up from what they are replacing.bk wrote:I suppose this is where my confusion comes from. The article mentioned that these will be used on commuter routers. Commuter routes down south mostly mean BE and BE means coaches. Coaches for longer distance trips are always more comfortable then a spruced up city double decker. For instance, no one would be happy to see the BE coaches to Navan and Naas replaced with these double deckers. It would be a major step down.mark wrote:Leather high backed seats are a significant step up from the NTA seats in DB's Geminis.
Yes, if you are comparing them to DB, then yes they are a step up. But then DB is supposed to be a city bus service, not a commuter service. I'd say DB's SG class while far from perfect, is far better suited to the majority of DB's routes. Two doors for instance is important for a city bus service and the cloth, lower backed seats is more suited to the type of service where people are constantly hopping on and off all day. They are designed for quick trips and high turn-over, not long commutes.
Of course DB do operate some longer routes, which could certainly do with something like above, though relatively speaking those are niche in the DB network and not their primary focus. And also you'd have to ask if something like the coaches operated by Swords Express or Cobh Connect wouldn't be a more comfortable choice for these routes?