Speaking of teams flushed with money

Speaking of teams flushed with money

Joined: September 7th, 2004, 8:54 pm

September 10th, 2011, 4:05 pm #1

Since the free-spending days of the Kingston Voyageurs, it would seem some of the forum faithful have expended a fair amount of energy pointing disapprovingly at teams who spend money on players.

Excuse me? Isn't showcasing your players and sending them on an expensive preseason tournament to prepare them for the coming season still spending money on players?

I recently read that it cost about two thousand dollars to enter your team in the Vermont U.S.A. Woodchuck Classic preseason tournament.

That is only for starters.

Anybody know what the total payout would be? Travel, accomodation and feeding those hungry teenagers wouldn't be cheap. This in addition to the two thousand dollar cost of entering the team as a registration fee.

It would seem the OJHL's Wellington Dukes, Trenton Golden Hawks, Lindsay Muskies, Vaughan Vipers and Aurora Tigers are among the well healed clients of the Woodchuck Classic this year.

So the issue is not about spending money but on what you spend it that makes it right in the eyes of some.

Face it folks. The business of hockey is not cheap and there will always be those teams with more resources than others.

And there will always be a debate on what to spend those resources on.

I say, "all the more power to them."

Stay tuned.

Wayjoy
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Joined: October 26th, 2010, 8:40 pm

September 10th, 2011, 4:33 pm #2

I believe last year Muskies players had to pay to go, maybe this year the same as well?
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Joined: May 14th, 2010, 2:11 pm

September 10th, 2011, 4:40 pm #3

Since the free-spending days of the Kingston Voyageurs, it would seem some of the forum faithful have expended a fair amount of energy pointing disapprovingly at teams who spend money on players.

Excuse me? Isn't showcasing your players and sending them on an expensive preseason tournament to prepare them for the coming season still spending money on players?

I recently read that it cost about two thousand dollars to enter your team in the Vermont U.S.A. Woodchuck Classic preseason tournament.

That is only for starters.

Anybody know what the total payout would be? Travel, accomodation and feeding those hungry teenagers wouldn't be cheap. This in addition to the two thousand dollar cost of entering the team as a registration fee.

It would seem the OJHL's Wellington Dukes, Trenton Golden Hawks, Lindsay Muskies, Vaughan Vipers and Aurora Tigers are among the well healed clients of the Woodchuck Classic this year.

So the issue is not about spending money but on what you spend it that makes it right in the eyes of some.

Face it folks. The business of hockey is not cheap and there will always be those teams with more resources than others.

And there will always be a debate on what to spend those resources on.

I say, "all the more power to them."

Stay tuned.

Wayjoy
It seems to me that the bulk of the money discussion on these boards is about money being funneled to specific players, not for team-wide use.
I think there's a world of difference.
Some teams draw well enough at the gate that they can absorb a trip like the Woodchuck by proper budgeting. And if you look at some of the team web sites, some obviously work hard on sponsorships.
Others ask the players to pay part of the cost. And others have rich parents on the team who pay some or all of the costs.
Wayne is 100 per cent right. It's not cheap, any of it.
And I agree -- more power to them-- as long as they are spending the money within the league and OHA rules.
But when teams rupture the rules because they have money and tilt the playing field and pay players outside of the rules, well, I have a problem with that.
I wish the league and OHA would find a case, pursue it, and make an example of a team and ownership group. I also wish Santa Claus was real.
The two are on par with one another.
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Joined: May 22nd, 2010, 4:54 pm

September 10th, 2011, 5:33 pm #4

Still cheering,

You are absolutely correct in everything you have written.

And maybe Im wrong, but I don't presume it would be very hard to prove some of these payolas. I mean, come on! If they really wanted to nab a team, the league surely could.

Wouldn't it send a definitive message to all the clubs in the league. Muck around and the consequences will be severe.
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Joined: March 13th, 2007, 2:15 pm

September 10th, 2011, 5:40 pm #5

The big thing about these tournament is getting player exposure to NCAA scouts. Wellington has been going to Vermont for a couple of years now and as everyone knows, Wellington always is sending players every season to the NCAA.

You also have to consider the extra games before the season starts let's the teams get playing time together so the coaching can get players familiar with eachother and let's the coaches make a decision on potential final cuts. I haven't looked at the stats but how many teams who go into pre season tournaments have slow starts? Historically Wellington has gotten off to quick starts and maybe the extra games dealt help with that!

DUKES_FAN
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Joined: May 14th, 2010, 2:11 pm

September 10th, 2011, 7:38 pm #6

People with more contacts and experience than me might know, but what "consequences" could there be I wonder?
It would certainly be easy for a whistle blower to alert the Canada Revenue Agency to the names of suspected players on the receiving end of cash, and the teams paying it out. But given that most of these owners are businessmen I doubt they would be breaking any laws for teenage hockey players. I'm sure the payouts are well papered.
In terms of the league, it sure would be interesting if teams found in violation of something this serious were subject to NCAA-style sanctions.
Like, becoming ineligible for the playoffs for two years.
Or having a percentage of audited gate fees redirected to a league mandated charity.
O having any of their rostered players ineligible for Hockey Canada teams and camps.
I'm sure there are more ideas that would be seriously punitive in terms of returning a violating team to the level playing field (and lower) fast.
The down side is some owners would just fold up the franchise and walk away and any such sanctions would in the end be moot, because the only ones being penalized would be kids who want to play and fans who want to watch.
And don't forget that the folks at the OJHL head office are employed by the league board of governors, which is made up of (drum roll) the owners or their designates.
Great world, isn't it?
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Joined: September 7th, 2004, 8:54 pm

September 10th, 2011, 7:40 pm #7

The big thing about these tournament is getting player exposure to NCAA scouts. Wellington has been going to Vermont for a couple of years now and as everyone knows, Wellington always is sending players every season to the NCAA.

You also have to consider the extra games before the season starts let's the teams get playing time together so the coaching can get players familiar with eachother and let's the coaches make a decision on potential final cuts. I haven't looked at the stats but how many teams who go into pre season tournaments have slow starts? Historically Wellington has gotten off to quick starts and maybe the extra games dealt help with that!

DUKES_FAN
stillcheering has it right.

That as long as the money is spent within the rules, it should be ok.

Much of what stillcheering has written rings with both common sense and clarity. He has articulated it very well.

But unless there is a full and honest accounting of all teams' budgets by an independent auditor, Santa Claus will only exist in those who believe in him.

It isn't going to happen soon. Full and honest accounting of all monies by junior hockey teams, including sponsorship and fund raising money, isn't likely to be put out there for full scrutiny by the league's independent auditing.

When you can't even find out what the full cost was for a team who goes to the Woodchuck tournament, how in hell is one going to find out what a team paid for a player's services?

So much of it is buried beneath something called perks. It simply isn't likely to be included in the full costs' disclosure.

As an example, would the waiver fee of say twenty thousand dollars to the OHL for a major junior player's release from that league be included in the full cost accounting?

I sure wish that honesty and integrity would rule. Full financial statements to include all money that a junior team spends in detail.

Only when full team disclosure to league independent auditing for adherence to league rules would teams be permitted the priviledge of being a bonafide member in good standing of the league.

Kind of like a cap on all spending that all teams would be subject to.

It has to start somewhere.

Stay tuned.


Wayjoy
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Joined: February 7th, 2006, 4:21 am

September 10th, 2011, 8:30 pm #8





.........."It would certainly be easy for a whistle blower to alert the Canada Revenue Agency to the names of suspected players on the receiving end of cash, and the teams paying it out."


Surely, you don't think there would be a paper trail on any of these transactions do you????? It is done under the table. Revenue Canada couldn't prove anything.

Also, I have no problem with spending money on tournaments etc., as it benefits ALL the players on the team. Can you imagine how these kids feel when they find out some of their team mates are being paid and they are not???? Trust me, word travels fast and they all know what goes on. A little bragging and oops, the cat is out of the bag. It is wrong and every effort should be made by the league to stop this practise and punish those teams heavily if they are caught.

If everyone else knows or suspects it is going on.........why doesn't the league investigate and do something about it? It is wrong and it is destroying the league.
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Joined: March 15th, 2008, 5:54 pm

September 10th, 2011, 9:18 pm #9

stillcheering has it right.

That as long as the money is spent within the rules, it should be ok.

Much of what stillcheering has written rings with both common sense and clarity. He has articulated it very well.

But unless there is a full and honest accounting of all teams' budgets by an independent auditor, Santa Claus will only exist in those who believe in him.

It isn't going to happen soon. Full and honest accounting of all monies by junior hockey teams, including sponsorship and fund raising money, isn't likely to be put out there for full scrutiny by the league's independent auditing.

When you can't even find out what the full cost was for a team who goes to the Woodchuck tournament, how in hell is one going to find out what a team paid for a player's services?

So much of it is buried beneath something called perks. It simply isn't likely to be included in the full costs' disclosure.

As an example, would the waiver fee of say twenty thousand dollars to the OHL for a major junior player's release from that league be included in the full cost accounting?

I sure wish that honesty and integrity would rule. Full financial statements to include all money that a junior team spends in detail.

Only when full team disclosure to league independent auditing for adherence to league rules would teams be permitted the priviledge of being a bonafide member in good standing of the league.

Kind of like a cap on all spending that all teams would be subject to.

It has to start somewhere.

Stay tuned.


Wayjoy
Re: Full teams' accounting and league independent scrutiny is the only way
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Joined: March 15th, 2008, 5:54 pm

September 10th, 2011, 9:24 pm #10

pls delete the last entry as I hit the wrong button.
The message is exactly opposite to my feelings.
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