Infidel

Infidel

Joined: July 26th, 2017, 10:15 pm

July 26th, 2017, 10:23 pm #1

Long time member/officer turned unbeliever here. You can call me infidel, atheist, antitheist, humanist, rationalist or secularist. I will not disagree. The hypocrisy and unbelievable arrogance of the EVM administration has forced me to look deeper and examine my own beliefs. I have always believed in science and the scientific method. It cannot be denied because we use and apply it everyday. I also believed (or forced myself to believe) that there has got to be some reconciliation between what the Bible (and the INC minister) teaches and science. I have now realized that there is none. The Bible and other so-called ‘holy’ books are manmade fiction that deserves no more credence than the literary works of Shakespeare, Milton, Rizal and others.

I urge all readers here to watch (youtube) Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens. These folks are experts in their field and are proponents of science and reason. I urge you all to gather the information, use your own brain to sort them out and make up your own mind. You have the power.
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Joined: October 27th, 2015, 4:55 pm

July 26th, 2017, 11:10 pm #2

I agree totally what you said. How long have you been a member? and do you still attend? I was born into the Church. Like you, I was active before all these things have been happening, also a Church officer. And these anomalies made me question the Church and then eventually the existence of God. I have OWE relatives that are disappointed in me that I do not attend anymore. How about you? Welcome fellow Infidel.
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Joined: April 11th, 2017, 8:57 pm

July 27th, 2017, 1:19 am #3

Long time member/officer turned unbeliever here. You can call me infidel, atheist, antitheist, humanist, rationalist or secularist. I will not disagree. The hypocrisy and unbelievable arrogance of the EVM administration has forced me to look deeper and examine my own beliefs. I have always believed in science and the scientific method. It cannot be denied because we use and apply it everyday. I also believed (or forced myself to believe) that there has got to be some reconciliation between what the Bible (and the INC minister) teaches and science. I have now realized that there is none. The Bible and other so-called ‘holy’ books are manmade fiction that deserves no more credence than the literary works of Shakespeare, Milton, Rizal and others.

I urge all readers here to watch (youtube) Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens. These folks are experts in their field and are proponents of science and reason. I urge you all to gather the information, use your own brain to sort them out and make up your own mind. You have the power.
I am an agnostic who believes that God may or may not exist. The bible has some nice things in it, and some things that really take gullible people to believe, (Noah's flood for example). And INCers seem more gullible than most. At least most American Christians don't allow the church to tell them who to vote for, at least not outright.
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Joined: July 26th, 2017, 10:15 pm

July 27th, 2017, 1:32 am #4

I agree totally what you said. How long have you been a member? and do you still attend? I was born into the Church. Like you, I was active before all these things have been happening, also a Church officer. And these anomalies made me question the Church and then eventually the existence of God. I have OWE relatives that are disappointed in me that I do not attend anymore. How about you? Welcome fellow Infidel.
More than 20 years. No longer attending. It is my purpose now to persuade people to investigate and convince them that religion is a cancer on humanity, albeit a curable cancer. The cure is science, reason and rational thinking.
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Joined: November 10th, 2012, 1:03 am

July 27th, 2017, 3:48 am #5

that not everything in the Bible is meant literally. There is a lot of symbolism in the Bible. So for example the creation stories are not meant literally. To take them literally would give us contradictions. So the stories are symbolic stories, to illustrate the grandeur of God's creation. So likewise the story of the flood of Noah is not meant literally. To take it literally would contradict science of course. The story is symbolic of God's anger at all the sinfulness of most people in the time of Noah.
So you can accept evolution and believe the Bible. You can accept all modern scientific discoveries and believe the Bible.
The Bible is reliable. It prophesied a large number of prophesies about the coming of the Messiah, and no other man came even close to fulfilling the prophesies, but Jesus fulfilled them exactly. So that proves Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ. He rose from the tomb, the tomb was then empty, and over 500 people saw Jesus alive again, so they were witnesses that it happened. And they were ready to testify to what they witnessed, and many of them were martyred rather than deny their faith, including almost all of the apostles. One would not be ready to die for lying about what miracles he has witnessed.
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Joined: November 10th, 2012, 1:03 am

July 27th, 2017, 4:07 am #6

I am an agnostic who believes that God may or may not exist. The bible has some nice things in it, and some things that really take gullible people to believe, (Noah's flood for example). And INCers seem more gullible than most. At least most American Christians don't allow the church to tell them who to vote for, at least not outright.
Just about any Christian scientist will tell you that if we take the story of Noah's flood literally, it would contradict scientific discoveries. The fact is that the Bible has a lot of symbolic stories, parables, which are not intended to be taken literally. And with modern scientific discoveries, we can see more clearly than ever that the flood story is among them. It simply symbolizes God's anger at the sinful people of Noah's time. Of course there was no literal worldwide flood at that time, or only one language spoken at that time. The flood story was adapted from Babylonian mythology, the inspired author of Genesis was inspired to rewrite the flood story to fit monotheism. And after the exodus, when the Israelites adopted the Hebrew language from their neighbors in the holy land, Genesis was translated into Hebrew, an inspired translation. And likewise the 4 books of Moses, from Exodus to Deuteronomy, were translated into Hebrew. The Israelites at the time of Moses probably spoke Egyptian. The language spoken by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was surely a much older Semitic language, which was surely forgotten during slavery in Egypt. The much newer Hebrew language was basically identical to the language of the Canaanites and other nations that lived in the holy land at the time of the exodus, and very similar to Moabite, Ammonite and other languages of their neighbors to the east, basically dialects of the same language. So the idea of some Christians that Abraham spoke Hebrew, must be totally wrong. Some even think that the language of all people in the time of Noah was Hebrew. So absurd. Totally unscientific.
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Joined: July 26th, 2017, 10:15 pm

July 27th, 2017, 5:29 am #7

I am an agnostic who believes that God may or may not exist. The bible has some nice things in it, and some things that really take gullible people to believe, (Noah's flood for example). And INCers seem more gullible than most. At least most American Christians don't allow the church to tell them who to vote for, at least not outright.
Many people find agnosticism more palatable than atheism. It's the stigma as a result of its association with socialism and communism.

By Webster's definition, we are all atheists when we talk about say Zeus, Osiris, Odin and other ancient mythology. Today, non Hindu folks are atheists when we talk about Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva. Conversely, they are atheists about Allah, the Almighty, the Trinity, etc. You get my point, I'm sure. The only difference is that they are selective atheists. I, on the other hand am all for equal opportunity. I equally lack belief in all of them.
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Joined: July 26th, 2017, 10:15 pm

July 27th, 2017, 5:56 am #8

Just about any Christian scientist will tell you that if we take the story of Noah's flood literally, it would contradict scientific discoveries. The fact is that the Bible has a lot of symbolic stories, parables, which are not intended to be taken literally. And with modern scientific discoveries, we can see more clearly than ever that the flood story is among them. It simply symbolizes God's anger at the sinful people of Noah's time. Of course there was no literal worldwide flood at that time, or only one language spoken at that time. The flood story was adapted from Babylonian mythology, the inspired author of Genesis was inspired to rewrite the flood story to fit monotheism. And after the exodus, when the Israelites adopted the Hebrew language from their neighbors in the holy land, Genesis was translated into Hebrew, an inspired translation. And likewise the 4 books of Moses, from Exodus to Deuteronomy, were translated into Hebrew. The Israelites at the time of Moses probably spoke Egyptian. The language spoken by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was surely a much older Semitic language, which was surely forgotten during slavery in Egypt. The much newer Hebrew language was basically identical to the language of the Canaanites and other nations that lived in the holy land at the time of the exodus, and very similar to Moabite, Ammonite and other languages of their neighbors to the east, basically dialects of the same language. So the idea of some Christians that Abraham spoke Hebrew, must be totally wrong. Some even think that the language of all people in the time of Noah was Hebrew. So absurd. Totally unscientific.
The story of the great flood and Noah's ark is just one of many unbelievable tales, literal or figurative. Many Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) religious leaders and theologists stand by their belief that the universe is literally less than 10,000 years old (book of Genesis), not the scientifically accepted 13.8 billion. That's just an example of the great rift between religion and science that cannot be reconciled.

If you have not seen it, I recommend the movie 'Religulous' with Bill Maher for a humorous/sober take on religion.
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Joined: October 27th, 2015, 4:55 pm

July 27th, 2017, 1:08 pm #9

Saw some bits of the movie on Youtube. I gotta check it out. Bill Maher is great, he gets to the point into whatever he talks about in and in a humorous way. the Bible is a great story book. That's all it is, stories. It's not the literal word of God, it was ideas of men who used it to control the masses. I respect that people can believe whatever they want, but if their beliefs make them disturb other peoples' beliefs or non-beliefs... we have a problem.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
― Epicurus


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Joined: April 11th, 2017, 8:57 pm

July 27th, 2017, 1:43 pm #10

Many people find agnosticism more palatable than atheism. It's the stigma as a result of its association with socialism and communism.

By Webster's definition, we are all atheists when we talk about say Zeus, Osiris, Odin and other ancient mythology. Today, non Hindu folks are atheists when we talk about Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva. Conversely, they are atheists about Allah, the Almighty, the Trinity, etc. You get my point, I'm sure. The only difference is that they are selective atheists. I, on the other hand am all for equal opportunity. I equally lack belief in all of them.
Its simply an admission that we truly don't know if god, or god's exist. It something that cannot be proven, or disproven. Somewhere in the Universe, there could be super beings that in our eyes would be god, or gods. For me, its I don't know, and in truth, I don't care.

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