Joined: April 15th, 2006, 12:28 pm

March 18th, 2014, 7:41 pm #51

If you said, 'I want a beer' to bar workers in pubs where I go, you'd get asked for clarity in terms of type and, if it didn't come in bottles, you'd get asked in terms of volume, because it comes in different quantities.

Mind you, when I was at college, I worked it a cinema, selling popcorn and all the rest of it. I regularly had the following conversation and by regularly, I mean several times a day, every day.

"Have you got any popcorn?"
"Yes, would you like salt or sweet?"
"What's the difference?"
"The sweet one tastes sweet and the salty one tastes salty. Would you like to try a bit?"
"Urgh. That tastes of salt", when tasting the salt popcorn.
"Yes, I've found that"
"Have you got sweet popcorn?"
"Yes, you've just tried a bit."
"Well, can I have sweet popcorn then?"
Yes. How much would you like? There's small, medium and large."' Indicating examples of each one, with the price stuck to each container.
"What's the difference?"
"I don't understand the question."
"What's the difference?"
"Look, this one is small and it costs this much and this one is medium and costs this much and this one is large and costs this much. You can have salted or sweet popcorn in them and you get progressively larger quantities of popcorn depending on the size container you choose."
"There's no need to be like that, I'll have medium."
"Here you go. Can I get you anything else?"
"Have you got a drink?"

And so it went on. Fucking endlessly. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that, for some people, having to comprehend flavours and volumes of things is a non-stop pedantic nightmare, and having to go into a place that sells varying types and quantities of various fluids was fraught with tension before the days when people could just say "I want a beer".

Common usage would suggest that most people would rather read The Sun than any other newspaper. It doesn't follow, to my mind, that lowest common denominator garbage is something people who know better should aim for.

Clarity is a good thing.
Last edited by pumpo on March 18th, 2014, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 15th, 2006, 12:28 pm

March 18th, 2014, 7:42 pm #52

Bet you're a right laugh in the pub, Pumpo
I'm a right laugh everywhere
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Joined: February 11th, 2006, 3:30 am

March 18th, 2014, 10:58 pm #53

If you said, 'I want a beer' to bar workers in pubs where I go, you'd get asked for clarity in terms of type and, if it didn't come in bottles, you'd get asked in terms of volume, because it comes in different quantities.

Mind you, when I was at college, I worked it a cinema, selling popcorn and all the rest of it. I regularly had the following conversation and by regularly, I mean several times a day, every day.

"Have you got any popcorn?"
"Yes, would you like salt or sweet?"
"What's the difference?"
"The sweet one tastes sweet and the salty one tastes salty. Would you like to try a bit?"
"Urgh. That tastes of salt", when tasting the salt popcorn.
"Yes, I've found that"
"Have you got sweet popcorn?"
"Yes, you've just tried a bit."
"Well, can I have sweet popcorn then?"
Yes. How much would you like? There's small, medium and large."' Indicating examples of each one, with the price stuck to each container.
"What's the difference?"
"I don't understand the question."
"What's the difference?"
"Look, this one is small and it costs this much and this one is medium and costs this much and this one is large and costs this much. You can have salted or sweet popcorn in them and you get progressively larger quantities of popcorn depending on the size container you choose."
"There's no need to be like that, I'll have medium."
"Here you go. Can I get you anything else?"
"Have you got a drink?"

And so it went on. Fucking endlessly. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that, for some people, having to comprehend flavours and volumes of things is a non-stop pedantic nightmare, and having to go into a place that sells varying types and quantities of various fluids was fraught with tension before the days when people could just say "I want a beer".

Common usage would suggest that most people would rather read The Sun than any other newspaper. It doesn't follow, to my mind, that lowest common denominator garbage is something people who know better should aim for.

Clarity is a good thing.
I agree, clarity is a good thing. Hiring Mr Logic might not be though.
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Morgan
Morgan

March 19th, 2014, 11:52 am #54

If you said, 'I want a beer' to bar workers in pubs where I go, you'd get asked for clarity in terms of type and, if it didn't come in bottles, you'd get asked in terms of volume, because it comes in different quantities.

Mind you, when I was at college, I worked it a cinema, selling popcorn and all the rest of it. I regularly had the following conversation and by regularly, I mean several times a day, every day.

"Have you got any popcorn?"
"Yes, would you like salt or sweet?"
"What's the difference?"
"The sweet one tastes sweet and the salty one tastes salty. Would you like to try a bit?"
"Urgh. That tastes of salt", when tasting the salt popcorn.
"Yes, I've found that"
"Have you got sweet popcorn?"
"Yes, you've just tried a bit."
"Well, can I have sweet popcorn then?"
Yes. How much would you like? There's small, medium and large."' Indicating examples of each one, with the price stuck to each container.
"What's the difference?"
"I don't understand the question."
"What's the difference?"
"Look, this one is small and it costs this much and this one is medium and costs this much and this one is large and costs this much. You can have salted or sweet popcorn in them and you get progressively larger quantities of popcorn depending on the size container you choose."
"There's no need to be like that, I'll have medium."
"Here you go. Can I get you anything else?"
"Have you got a drink?"

And so it went on. Fucking endlessly. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that, for some people, having to comprehend flavours and volumes of things is a non-stop pedantic nightmare, and having to go into a place that sells varying types and quantities of various fluids was fraught with tension before the days when people could just say "I want a beer".

Common usage would suggest that most people would rather read The Sun than any other newspaper. It doesn't follow, to my mind, that lowest common denominator garbage is something people who know better should aim for.

Clarity is a good thing.
Even after your riveting popcorn anecdote, there is still nothing incorrect about saying 'I want a beer' or 'I had some beers'. Beer can be a count noun and a mass noun, just as coffee and tea can be.

A classic case of misplaced grammatical pomposity.
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Pumpo
Pumpo

March 19th, 2014, 8:09 pm #55

So, you're clarifying the reasons why you like your statements to lack clarity? I don't think you have really grasped why count nouns exist.

If you went into a bar and asked for 'a beer' and you were given a thimbleful of beer, would you complain? Or would that be grammatically pompous on grounds that you'd been given 'some beer'?

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with saying, "I want a beer", grammatically. I think there is, for reasons that I've explained and you don't understand. Perhaps it' say bit subtle for you. However, there's also nothing grammatically wrong with the phrase, "I want a book". The problem arises when you get given a Dan Brown novel and you wanted "Catch 22". On the other hand, bearing in mind what you want to happen to English, you'd probably be happier with Dan Brown.

Saying, "People know what I mean" is no excuse. Why speak at all? Why not just point and grunt? If you know better, why are you satisfied with lowest common denominator garbage?

I've clarified why I think clarity is important and you've, for some reason, clarified why clarity isn't important to you. My advice is tell people exactly what you want or don't moan when you don't get exactly what you want.

All that's very well, but the real reason I don't say things like 'I want a beer' is because I find the people who say such things also say things such as, 'megabantz', 'Myself and the wife went out', 'Jeremy Clarkson's great because all that PC is rubbish', 'I went to see Michael Mckintyre last night', and 'yah, I took the A417 down to Kidderminster and then took a cheeky turn down the B93568'.

I mean, it makes people sound like cunts. For a variety of reasons. In my opinion. I'm a cunt, myself, obviously. However, I'm a cunt on my own terms.

By the way, more people call football 'soccer' than 'football'. I hope you'll be going with the majority on that one too. Perhaps you'll be enjoying watching 'The Irons' play some 'footballs'? Will you Morgan? Will you be giving them some applauses? Doing some dancings when they win? Will it be chaoses if they lose?

It's not pomposity to aim above the lowest common denominator garbage, Morgan. Do you want clarity or don't you? If you do, you agree with me. If you don't want clarity, why clarify your position? Do you see what's happened? That's a corner that you've painted yourself into. Don't go crying into your beers, will you.

Last edited by pumpo on March 19th, 2014, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 15th, 2006, 12:28 pm

March 19th, 2014, 8:21 pm #56

I agree, clarity is a good thing. Hiring Mr Logic might not be though.
Quite so. In clarifying the extent to which you're prepared to accept clarity, you're not being at all pedantic, are you?
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Morgan
Morgan

March 20th, 2014, 9:56 am #57

So, you're clarifying the reasons why you like your statements to lack clarity? I don't think you have really grasped why count nouns exist.

If you went into a bar and asked for 'a beer' and you were given a thimbleful of beer, would you complain? Or would that be grammatically pompous on grounds that you'd been given 'some beer'?

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with saying, "I want a beer", grammatically. I think there is, for reasons that I've explained and you don't understand. Perhaps it' say bit subtle for you. However, there's also nothing grammatically wrong with the phrase, "I want a book". The problem arises when you get given a Dan Brown novel and you wanted "Catch 22". On the other hand, bearing in mind what you want to happen to English, you'd probably be happier with Dan Brown.

Saying, "People know what I mean" is no excuse. Why speak at all? Why not just point and grunt? If you know better, why are you satisfied with lowest common denominator garbage?

I've clarified why I think clarity is important and you've, for some reason, clarified why clarity isn't important to you. My advice is tell people exactly what you want or don't moan when you don't get exactly what you want.

All that's very well, but the real reason I don't say things like 'I want a beer' is because I find the people who say such things also say things such as, 'megabantz', 'Myself and the wife went out', 'Jeremy Clarkson's great because all that PC is rubbish', 'I went to see Michael Mckintyre last night', and 'yah, I took the A417 down to Kidderminster and then took a cheeky turn down the B93568'.

I mean, it makes people sound like cunts. For a variety of reasons. In my opinion. I'm a cunt, myself, obviously. However, I'm a cunt on my own terms.

By the way, more people call football 'soccer' than 'football'. I hope you'll be going with the majority on that one too. Perhaps you'll be enjoying watching 'The Irons' play some 'footballs'? Will you Morgan? Will you be giving them some applauses? Doing some dancings when they win? Will it be chaoses if they lose?

It's not pomposity to aim above the lowest common denominator garbage, Morgan. Do you want clarity or don't you? If you do, you agree with me. If you don't want clarity, why clarify your position? Do you see what's happened? That's a corner that you've painted yourself into. Don't go crying into your beers, will you.
Football (the game), applause, dancing and chaos are not count nouns, so no - I probably would not say that, unless I had had quite a few beers.

You are wrong, writing long messages does not get away from that. Sorry.
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Joined: April 15th, 2006, 12:28 pm

March 20th, 2014, 4:40 pm #58

Wrong again. 'Football' is a count noun, as are, 'applause', 'dancing' and 'chaos'.

Just not in the way that I used them. Which is exactly the same thing as using 'beer' as a count noun in terms of 'I want a beer'.

Continually attempting to clarify why you don't want clarity does not get away from the fact that you're only arguing with yourself.
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agent x
agent x

March 20th, 2014, 6:01 pm #59

If you said, 'I want a beer' to bar workers in pubs where I go, you'd get asked for clarity in terms of type and, if it didn't come in bottles, you'd get asked in terms of volume, because it comes in different quantities.

Mind you, when I was at college, I worked it a cinema, selling popcorn and all the rest of it. I regularly had the following conversation and by regularly, I mean several times a day, every day.

"Have you got any popcorn?"
"Yes, would you like salt or sweet?"
"What's the difference?"
"The sweet one tastes sweet and the salty one tastes salty. Would you like to try a bit?"
"Urgh. That tastes of salt", when tasting the salt popcorn.
"Yes, I've found that"
"Have you got sweet popcorn?"
"Yes, you've just tried a bit."
"Well, can I have sweet popcorn then?"
Yes. How much would you like? There's small, medium and large."' Indicating examples of each one, with the price stuck to each container.
"What's the difference?"
"I don't understand the question."
"What's the difference?"
"Look, this one is small and it costs this much and this one is medium and costs this much and this one is large and costs this much. You can have salted or sweet popcorn in them and you get progressively larger quantities of popcorn depending on the size container you choose."
"There's no need to be like that, I'll have medium."
"Here you go. Can I get you anything else?"
"Have you got a drink?"

And so it went on. Fucking endlessly. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that, for some people, having to comprehend flavours and volumes of things is a non-stop pedantic nightmare, and having to go into a place that sells varying types and quantities of various fluids was fraught with tension before the days when people could just say "I want a beer".

Common usage would suggest that most people would rather read The Sun than any other newspaper. It doesn't follow, to my mind, that lowest common denominator garbage is something people who know better should aim for.

Clarity is a good thing.
Are you paid per word for being a shill on here?
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Joined: April 15th, 2006, 12:28 pm

March 20th, 2014, 6:20 pm #60

Nearly. I'm a 'shit', but I do it for free. If I was a 'shill', i wouldn't admit it because then I wouldn't be a shill anymore, would I?

Are you paid every time you type something that you haven't really thought through?

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