Yet another P-40B color question (s)

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Joined: April 28th, 2005, 2:06 pm

June 11th, 2018, 8:27 am #31

 Tomahawk SP-K is in Dark Earth/Dark Green scheme with Sky codes whilst RU-F is in the Ocean Grey/Dark Green scheme, the lineup is this later scheme too.
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 2:09 pm

June 11th, 2018, 12:16 pm #32

Are you sure that was a RAF bound aircraft? Some Hawk 81s for the French had been produced by the time the British took over the contract and many were in the advanced state of production. Shame it doesn't have a fin and rudder.  Not come across another picture that definitely shows a light painted spinner.  The other possibility was an aircraft produced in 1941.  The RAF introduced Sky spinner and fuselage band in November 1940, and these changes were to be communicated to contractors. 
Steven “Modeldad” Eisenman

I really don't care, do U?
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Joined: April 20th, 2018, 6:42 pm

June 11th, 2018, 1:32 pm #33

Mikestarmer wrote: Tomahawk SP-K is in Dark Earth/Dark Green scheme with Sky codes whilst RU-F is in the Ocean Grey/Dark Green scheme, the lineup is this later scheme too.
My focus is on the underside ' grey ' vs. the sky spinner and band
vs. the codes .

This is an edit : I made an argument against the RU-F Ocean Grey interpretation but I withdraw the argument!

... great fun , eh ?

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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 2:09 pm

June 11th, 2018, 1:52 pm #34

RUhavingfun wrote:
Mikestarmer wrote: Tomahawk SP-K is in Dark Earth/Dark Green scheme with Sky codes whilst RU-F is in the Ocean Grey/Dark Green scheme, the lineup is this later scheme too.
My focus is on the underside ' grey ' vs. the sky spinner and band
vs. the codes .

This is an edit : I made an argument against the RU-F Ocean Grey interpretation but I withdraw the argument!

... great fun , eh ?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The confusion is most likely because of the A1 roundel on the fuselage  which was in effect until July '42 when the C1 became standard. However the application of Grey (7 parts Sea Grey Medium and 1 part Night) over the brown was introduced in August 1941.  It was instructed that all aircraft were to have thew brown covered with grey. Also, yellow was to be applied to the leading edge of the main wings.  Since we may not know the date of the picture, and cannot see the leading edge, confusion as to which scheme.
Steven “Modeldad” Eisenman

I really don't care, do U?
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Joined: September 9th, 2004, 6:22 am

June 11th, 2018, 4:57 pm #35

samodeldad wrote: Are you sure that was a RAF bound aircraft? Some Hawk 81s for the French had been produced by the time the British took over the contract and many were in the advanced state of production. Shame it doesn't have a fin and rudder.  Not come across another picture that definitely shows a light painted spinner.  The other possibility was an aircraft produced in 1941.  The RAF introduced Sky spinner and fuselage band in November 1940, and these changes were to be communicated to contractors. 
Here's another Curtiss Factory Tomahawk (note has craned pitot tube) with light painted spinner ...would be late production as its on ramp with new H87/P40E's (Google Life photos also show H81 and H87 in overlap production at same time)

Now this photo and the first photo could be the same aircraft
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 2:09 pm

June 11th, 2018, 5:06 pm #36

HBBates wrote:
samodeldad wrote: Are you sure that was a RAF bound aircraft? Some Hawk 81s for the French had been produced by the time the British took over the contract and many were in the advanced state of production. Shame it doesn't have a fin and rudder.  Not come across another picture that definitely shows a light painted spinner.  The other possibility was an aircraft produced in 1941.  The RAF introduced Sky spinner and fuselage band in November 1940, and these changes were to be communicated to contractors. 
Here's another Curtiss Factory Tomahawk (note has craned pitot tube) with light painted spinner ...would be late production as its on ramp with new H87/P40E's (Google Life photos also show H81 and H87 in overlap production at same time)

Now this photo and the first photo could be the same aircraft
Well that would lend support that Curtiss was implementing the paining change. So the spinners would be whatever Curtiss was using as "Sky".
Steven “Modeldad” Eisenman

I really don't care, do U?
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Joined: March 22nd, 2018, 7:25 pm

June 11th, 2018, 5:10 pm #37

Thanks MD for the gray paint mix info, the overpainted upper brown, I mean. That would make for a handsome scheme on another model, especially with the yellow wing leading edges. I like all P-40's but these early ones make the later ones look like trucks. Had I been flying them in combat I'm sure the later ones would be welcome improvements but for sheer looks these early ones are just beautiful machines.

Tripletdad Bruce I did get the original Airfix boxing and it does indeed come with the camera parts but the instructions don't mention them so (Rats, shucks, dammit!) I "had" to also pick up the RAF Tomahawk II boxing for that info. That's the kit I'll use for this project and the original will probably be done as AVG. I'm planning to build one of each of the various P-40B/C kits as a lineup of five Flying Tigers so I also picked up a Bronco and have the Trumpeter coming, just need the Hobbycraft/Academy kit now.

Monograms I have a crapton of so any extra decals from these newer kits will be put to good use. The Bronco kit alone comes with an AVG and six U.S. Army versions including Taylor's PH plane. Airfix provides Welch's Pearl Harbor markings so that'll make a nice Monogram pair someday. I knew there was a reason to buy all those second-hand Monograms over the years and now I know. That's one kit I could build a million of and never get tired of it. I usually enjoy painting over actual building but this kit is just fun all the way through. I built two as a kid and two as a young adult, in fact it was the very first kit I did as an adult, because I already knew I'd enjoy it.
I'm not retro, my stash got old. ~John Krukowski
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Joined: December 18th, 2016, 8:46 pm

June 11th, 2018, 7:50 pm #38

Excellent photo, HB.  It brings out another point about US P-40B/C's that everybody thinks they had black props with yellow tips when it wasn't so.  This photo shows the NMF blades continued into the E models.  When was it required for E's to have black props?
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 2:09 pm

June 11th, 2018, 8:20 pm #39

RichScheuerer wrote: Excellent photo, HB.  It brings out another point about US P-40B/C's that everybody thinks they had black props with yellow tips when it wasn't so.  This photo shows the NMF blades continued into the E models.  When was it required for E's to have black props?
Even the B/C at Pearl Harbor had a mix of prop colors.  If you have seen the numerous life photos of the P-40B/C construction it has been quite clear the B/C before the order to paint had unpainted props.

Those other aircraft most likely Ds or the first Es.  The first Ds were delivered to the USAAC in May 1941, the first Es in August 1941. Given the absence of serial numbers, hard to tell. D had two guns each wing, the E three, so that is an indicator.

The order to paint prop blades and hubs matt back was issued on May 9, 1941, yellow tips mandated August 28, 1941.  So it is possible that some Ds and some Es may have had the unpainted prop. But it might be that they were painted black before being shipped to front line units.  I have not come across an in-service P-40E with unpainted props.  The following are the only examples I can find, stateside and very early.
E_Curtiss_prod_prop.jpg
D or E?
P-40D004b.jpg
P-40D
P-40D
P-40D003b.jpg
P-40D
P-40D
P-40d_02_172.jpg
P-40D
P-40D
Curtiss E factory.jpeg
Looks like a mix, one can see black with yellow and not with yellow
Looks like a mix, one can see black with yellow and not with yellow
E-1_WarGame.jpeg
This looks like one of the first Es.
E-1_prop.jpg
E-1_P-40EsPlantTwo001b-1.jpg
14827591298_0b5061ac5c_o.jpg
Steven “Modeldad” Eisenman

I really don't care, do U?
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Joined: September 9th, 2004, 6:22 am

June 11th, 2018, 9:34 pm #40

Also on cockpit colors Tomahawk vs P40

IMO they are not the same

Tomahawk: DuPont 71-036 cockpit, Black headrest , Dark Green Seat, Yellow chromate armor (overpainted later?)


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