Trumpeter Skywarrior findings

Trumpeter Skywarrior findings

Joined: January 17th, 2007, 11:41 pm

March 20th, 2014, 10:07 am #1

While pottering away on my wheel well correction set I was trying to solve a puzzle about a set of actuators in the forward compartment.
They are the aft bomb bay door actuators, completely missing in the kit. But not only that - Trumpeter seem to have failed to understand the construction and mechanics in this area. The aft end of the bomb doors need to overlap the forward edge of the wheel well compartment so the actuators located in there can actually work. On the kit the doors stop about 2mm in front of the wheel wells so even if Trumpeter had included any actuators they would now push against solid fuselage skin, not the doors...
Going back to this photo:

The wall on the left, the one with the lightening holes, is part of the aft wall of the bomb bay. The vertical arm with the red shackle at the top is one half of the folded door actuator arm, the lower arm (usually also red) is missing. At a 45° angle sits the hydraulic actuator ram that would push the arm downwards.
For this to work, the bomb bay doors need to be longer than the bomb bay itself, overlapping the aft bulkhead, up to the actuators.

But it gets worse: Taking overall measurements of the Ginter book for the A3D-1 and -2, scaling some reasonably accurate drawings to these dimensions in 1:48 revealed that the aft edge of the bomb bay(doors) is roughly in the right place, it's the wheel well itself that's too far aft (4-5mm). But it doesn't stop there - the bomb bay is still too short, but actually at the front, which means the buffet spoiler would also need to move forward to be roughly in the right place.

Now, what to do in terms of corrections. I'll provide the actuators in the retracted position in my wheel well set and the easiest option would be to model the bomb bay doors closed and leave it at that.
If you would like to model them open I will provide a set of extended actuators, but it will be up to you whether you:
- extend the bomb bay doors aft using the fuselage plastic of that would need to be cut away so the doors overlap the wheel wells and the actuator arms can be connected
or
- cut out the wheel well aperture and move it forward so, again, the forward edge overlaps the aft edge of the bomb bay doors.

I hope that either will be possible with my set, the latter of course more difficult. Extending the bomb bay forward would be nothing short of a nightmare as this would also affect the buffet spoiler and the crew hatch.

Cheers
Jeffrey
Last edited by JeffreyK on March 20th, 2014, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hypersonic Models
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Joined: February 26th, 2005, 11:38 pm

They screwed up the spoiler, too...

March 20th, 2014, 10:44 am #2

It's supposed to fit completely flush with the belly. Your best bet is to leave out the bomb bay and crew tunnel, build the spoiler and bomb bay closed (which is a PITA), and scribe the doors and spoiler outlines.

Ben
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Joined: May 10th, 2005, 10:47 pm

Good Catch

March 20th, 2014, 12:36 pm #3

While pottering away on my wheel well correction set I was trying to solve a puzzle about a set of actuators in the forward compartment.
They are the aft bomb bay door actuators, completely missing in the kit. But not only that - Trumpeter seem to have failed to understand the construction and mechanics in this area. The aft end of the bomb doors need to overlap the forward edge of the wheel well compartment so the actuators located in there can actually work. On the kit the doors stop about 2mm in front of the wheel wells so even if Trumpeter had included any actuators they would now push against solid fuselage skin, not the doors...
Going back to this photo:

The wall on the left, the one with the lightening holes, is part of the aft wall of the bomb bay. The vertical arm with the red shackle at the top is one half of the folded door actuator arm, the lower arm (usually also red) is missing. At a 45° angle sits the hydraulic actuator ram that would push the arm downwards.
For this to work, the bomb bay doors need to be longer than the bomb bay itself, overlapping the aft bulkhead, up to the actuators.

But it gets worse: Taking overall measurements of the Ginter book for the A3D-1 and -2, scaling some reasonably accurate drawings to these dimensions in 1:48 revealed that the aft edge of the bomb bay(doors) is roughly in the right place, it's the wheel well itself that's too far aft (4-5mm). But it doesn't stop there - the bomb bay is still too short, but actually at the front, which means the buffet spoiler would also need to move forward to be roughly in the right place.

Now, what to do in terms of corrections. I'll provide the actuators in the retracted position in my wheel well set and the easiest option would be to model the bomb bay doors closed and leave it at that.
If you would like to model them open I will provide a set of extended actuators, but it will be up to you whether you:
- extend the bomb bay doors aft using the fuselage plastic of that would need to be cut away so the doors overlap the wheel wells and the actuator arms can be connected
or
- cut out the wheel well aperture and move it forward so, again, the forward edge overlaps the aft edge of the bomb bay doors.

I hope that either will be possible with my set, the latter of course more difficult. Extending the bomb bay forward would be nothing short of a nightmare as this would also affect the buffet spoiler and the crew hatch.

Cheers
Jeffrey
I hadn't noticed this before but it explains why there is no door-opening linkage at the aft end of the bomb bay like there is at the forward end.
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Joined: February 26th, 2005, 11:38 pm

Great photo, Tommy! I wish I'd had it a couple of months ago...

March 20th, 2014, 2:54 pm #4

when I was trying to add the catapult hook slots that Trumpeter also left off of the kit. The photo also shows how badly they pooched the fence. Dis one of the Versions have a scabbed-on fence, that sits on the surface of the belly, like is provided in the kit?

Ben
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Joined: May 10th, 2005, 10:47 pm

The Versions don't have the fence

March 20th, 2014, 4:33 pm #5

Because they don't have the bomb bay, which is why there's a fence on the Bombers. Otherwise, reportedly, the bomb or bombs might just rattle around inside the bomb bay when released. The A3D-2P had two little side-by-side bomb bays for the flares but I don't think it had a fence. I think Trumpeter just misinterpreted a photo of a derelict A-3 or one of a Bomber with the fence extended.
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Joined: February 26th, 2005, 11:38 pm

Thanks! I figured a design as clean as the A3D wouldn't have...

March 20th, 2014, 5:03 pm #6

it scabbed-on as if it was an afterthought.

Ben
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Joined: January 17th, 2007, 11:41 pm

Thanks!

March 20th, 2014, 5:58 pm #7

I hadn't noticed this before but it explains why there is no door-opening linkage at the aft end of the bomb bay like there is at the forward end.
Any yes, as Ben has said, a great picture too! I've been trying to find a nice underside shot like that for a while.

Cheers
Jeffrey
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 2:45 am

On some aircraft, no matter how clean it is outside,

March 20th, 2014, 6:26 pm #8

it scabbed-on as if it was an afterthought.

Ben
when they open the bomb bay doors, the flow off the doors and, over the bay, causes turbulence within the bay. This affects the way the bomb exits the bay. So the fences aren't there to clean up the drag of the aircraft, but to clean up the flow over the bay. Otherwise, the bomb may not hit the target, or may hit a door while exiting.
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Joined: July 11th, 2005, 1:15 am

Question_How does this compare with Hasegawas 1/72 Skywarriors???

March 21st, 2014, 1:52 am #9

While pottering away on my wheel well correction set I was trying to solve a puzzle about a set of actuators in the forward compartment.
They are the aft bomb bay door actuators, completely missing in the kit. But not only that - Trumpeter seem to have failed to understand the construction and mechanics in this area. The aft end of the bomb doors need to overlap the forward edge of the wheel well compartment so the actuators located in there can actually work. On the kit the doors stop about 2mm in front of the wheel wells so even if Trumpeter had included any actuators they would now push against solid fuselage skin, not the doors...
Going back to this photo:

The wall on the left, the one with the lightening holes, is part of the aft wall of the bomb bay. The vertical arm with the red shackle at the top is one half of the folded door actuator arm, the lower arm (usually also red) is missing. At a 45° angle sits the hydraulic actuator ram that would push the arm downwards.
For this to work, the bomb bay doors need to be longer than the bomb bay itself, overlapping the aft bulkhead, up to the actuators.

But it gets worse: Taking overall measurements of the Ginter book for the A3D-1 and -2, scaling some reasonably accurate drawings to these dimensions in 1:48 revealed that the aft edge of the bomb bay(doors) is roughly in the right place, it's the wheel well itself that's too far aft (4-5mm). But it doesn't stop there - the bomb bay is still too short, but actually at the front, which means the buffet spoiler would also need to move forward to be roughly in the right place.

Now, what to do in terms of corrections. I'll provide the actuators in the retracted position in my wheel well set and the easiest option would be to model the bomb bay doors closed and leave it at that.
If you would like to model them open I will provide a set of extended actuators, but it will be up to you whether you:
- extend the bomb bay doors aft using the fuselage plastic of that would need to be cut away so the doors overlap the wheel wells and the actuator arms can be connected
or
- cut out the wheel well aperture and move it forward so, again, the forward edge overlaps the aft edge of the bomb bay doors.

I hope that either will be possible with my set, the latter of course more difficult. Extending the bomb bay forward would be nothing short of a nightmare as this would also affect the buffet spoiler and the crew hatch.

Cheers
Jeffrey
Did Hasegawa get this area correct? I am just interested if this is a common problem in all Skywarrior kits?


Steve,
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 10:15 pm

Ahh the Whale

March 21st, 2014, 7:01 am #10

While pottering away on my wheel well correction set I was trying to solve a puzzle about a set of actuators in the forward compartment.
They are the aft bomb bay door actuators, completely missing in the kit. But not only that - Trumpeter seem to have failed to understand the construction and mechanics in this area. The aft end of the bomb doors need to overlap the forward edge of the wheel well compartment so the actuators located in there can actually work. On the kit the doors stop about 2mm in front of the wheel wells so even if Trumpeter had included any actuators they would now push against solid fuselage skin, not the doors...
Going back to this photo:

The wall on the left, the one with the lightening holes, is part of the aft wall of the bomb bay. The vertical arm with the red shackle at the top is one half of the folded door actuator arm, the lower arm (usually also red) is missing. At a 45° angle sits the hydraulic actuator ram that would push the arm downwards.
For this to work, the bomb bay doors need to be longer than the bomb bay itself, overlapping the aft bulkhead, up to the actuators.

But it gets worse: Taking overall measurements of the Ginter book for the A3D-1 and -2, scaling some reasonably accurate drawings to these dimensions in 1:48 revealed that the aft edge of the bomb bay(doors) is roughly in the right place, it's the wheel well itself that's too far aft (4-5mm). But it doesn't stop there - the bomb bay is still too short, but actually at the front, which means the buffet spoiler would also need to move forward to be roughly in the right place.

Now, what to do in terms of corrections. I'll provide the actuators in the retracted position in my wheel well set and the easiest option would be to model the bomb bay doors closed and leave it at that.
If you would like to model them open I will provide a set of extended actuators, but it will be up to you whether you:
- extend the bomb bay doors aft using the fuselage plastic of that would need to be cut away so the doors overlap the wheel wells and the actuator arms can be connected
or
- cut out the wheel well aperture and move it forward so, again, the forward edge overlaps the aft edge of the bomb bay doors.

I hope that either will be possible with my set, the latter of course more difficult. Extending the bomb bay forward would be nothing short of a nightmare as this would also affect the buffet spoiler and the crew hatch.

Cheers
Jeffrey
Great stuff, I hope to build a big Whale one day and have saved this info. When I was a young Airman in VAW 124 one of the first things I was taught my first day on the flight deck was "When the Whale comes in get behind the island"
Rob Anderson
AECS(AW)
Retired
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