Re-painting the F-4 I guess....

Re-painting the F-4 I guess....

Joined: June 1st, 2005, 6:54 am

February 10th, 2012, 9:46 pm #1

Hello,

I will be at the show next Sunday wich is at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in
Hamilton, Canada.
This is a great museum and where the other flyable Lancaster resides, among many other flying
and non flying aircraft.

A new propeller and spinner set will be available at the show for the Fw190 D-11 from Eduard.
It will feature the accurate propeller for this Fw model wich has that distinctive swept
leading edge at the tip of the blade, as seen on some Ta152 H.

Regards

Alain Gadbois
Fusion Models




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Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 7:19 pm

February 10th, 2012, 9:46 pm #2

Ugh. After mulling it over for a week while away on business, it looks as though I'm just gonna strip the whole thing (1/48 F-4E). I just wasn't happy with the way the paint went down. I use mostly Model Master enamels as they are the most readily available, thinned with straight lacquer thinner. Every once in a while, it dries all grainy in the wing to fuselage joint and sometimes at the base of the vertical stabiliser or other concave areas. Everywhere else is smooth. This time I just couldn't live with it. These paints frustrate me sometimes because I find them inconsistent. I thought I could hide it with clear coats, but no such luck. Oh well. I wasn't too happy with the step left at the windscreen joint to the fuselage anyway, so this gives me an opportunity to address that issue too.

Still, it's a four-tone USAF SEA camo pattern, so it'll take a few hours to redo the whole thing.

Another issue is the paint tones being kinda screwy. Model Master's Medium Green (FS 34102) and Dark Green (34079) dried looking almost identical in places, which is not acceptable to me. I'm sure I mixed them thoroughly, but they insist on toying with me. From pictures I've seen, they should be much more distinct.

If you've encountered this grainy finish in the same sorts of areas described and can offer a solution, please do!

TIA

Matt
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Joined: April 27th, 2005, 7:47 pm

February 10th, 2012, 10:56 pm #3

I have not had the trouble you cite. I'd look to your thinner for the issue. I use Xylene, which is a Lacquer thinner of sorts, but not as hot a some other thinners.


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Joined: October 2nd, 2008, 2:57 am

February 10th, 2012, 11:01 pm #4

Ugh. After mulling it over for a week while away on business, it looks as though I'm just gonna strip the whole thing (1/48 F-4E). I just wasn't happy with the way the paint went down. I use mostly Model Master enamels as they are the most readily available, thinned with straight lacquer thinner. Every once in a while, it dries all grainy in the wing to fuselage joint and sometimes at the base of the vertical stabiliser or other concave areas. Everywhere else is smooth. This time I just couldn't live with it. These paints frustrate me sometimes because I find them inconsistent. I thought I could hide it with clear coats, but no such luck. Oh well. I wasn't too happy with the step left at the windscreen joint to the fuselage anyway, so this gives me an opportunity to address that issue too.

Still, it's a four-tone USAF SEA camo pattern, so it'll take a few hours to redo the whole thing.

Another issue is the paint tones being kinda screwy. Model Master's Medium Green (FS 34102) and Dark Green (34079) dried looking almost identical in places, which is not acceptable to me. I'm sure I mixed them thoroughly, but they insist on toying with me. From pictures I've seen, they should be much more distinct.

If you've encountered this grainy finish in the same sorts of areas described and can offer a solution, please do!

TIA

Matt
as far as wing root, sounds like you got too far away, tends to vortex on 90 degree angles. I would lightly sand that area(wet sand i.e.).may give a slightly weathered look tho depending on how heavy a hand you have. Others may know more tho.....don't give up !!! HTH's...Tom
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 4:28 am

February 10th, 2012, 11:59 pm #5

Ugh. After mulling it over for a week while away on business, it looks as though I'm just gonna strip the whole thing (1/48 F-4E). I just wasn't happy with the way the paint went down. I use mostly Model Master enamels as they are the most readily available, thinned with straight lacquer thinner. Every once in a while, it dries all grainy in the wing to fuselage joint and sometimes at the base of the vertical stabiliser or other concave areas. Everywhere else is smooth. This time I just couldn't live with it. These paints frustrate me sometimes because I find them inconsistent. I thought I could hide it with clear coats, but no such luck. Oh well. I wasn't too happy with the step left at the windscreen joint to the fuselage anyway, so this gives me an opportunity to address that issue too.

Still, it's a four-tone USAF SEA camo pattern, so it'll take a few hours to redo the whole thing.

Another issue is the paint tones being kinda screwy. Model Master's Medium Green (FS 34102) and Dark Green (34079) dried looking almost identical in places, which is not acceptable to me. I'm sure I mixed them thoroughly, but they insist on toying with me. From pictures I've seen, they should be much more distinct.

If you've encountered this grainy finish in the same sorts of areas described and can offer a solution, please do!

TIA

Matt
If you get the grainy , rough finish, you are spraying from to far away. The paint is drying before it get to the model. Thin a wee bit and move in closer so the paint can level before it dries like sandpaper.
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Joined: March 2nd, 2005, 8:00 pm

February 11th, 2012, 1:10 am #6

Hello,

I will be at the show next Sunday wich is at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in
Hamilton, Canada.
This is a great museum and where the other flyable Lancaster resides, among many other flying
and non flying aircraft.

A new propeller and spinner set will be available at the show for the Fw190 D-11 from Eduard.
It will feature the accurate propeller for this Fw model wich has that distinctive swept
leading edge at the tip of the blade, as seen on some Ta152 H.

Regards

Alain Gadbois
Fusion Models



lkj;

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!
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Joined: February 18th, 2006, 2:30 pm

February 11th, 2012, 1:45 am #7

Ugh. After mulling it over for a week while away on business, it looks as though I'm just gonna strip the whole thing (1/48 F-4E). I just wasn't happy with the way the paint went down. I use mostly Model Master enamels as they are the most readily available, thinned with straight lacquer thinner. Every once in a while, it dries all grainy in the wing to fuselage joint and sometimes at the base of the vertical stabiliser or other concave areas. Everywhere else is smooth. This time I just couldn't live with it. These paints frustrate me sometimes because I find them inconsistent. I thought I could hide it with clear coats, but no such luck. Oh well. I wasn't too happy with the step left at the windscreen joint to the fuselage anyway, so this gives me an opportunity to address that issue too.

Still, it's a four-tone USAF SEA camo pattern, so it'll take a few hours to redo the whole thing.

Another issue is the paint tones being kinda screwy. Model Master's Medium Green (FS 34102) and Dark Green (34079) dried looking almost identical in places, which is not acceptable to me. I'm sure I mixed them thoroughly, but they insist on toying with me. From pictures I've seen, they should be much more distinct.

If you've encountered this grainy finish in the same sorts of areas described and can offer a solution, please do!

TIA

Matt
I add drops of yellow to the medium green and just a drop or two flat blk to the Darker green. The dullcoats and gloss cotes usually kill the bright raw colors too, so I tend to brighten out of bottle colors so they withstand the clear coats and weathering better.
I suit to the eye per reference photos. Dependent on era all of the SEA camo colors/tones/etc differ slightly. I also tweak my Tan to a more rich brown tint than light tan.

Just my taste for interpretation of specific photos.


Last edited by alexlopez on February 11th, 2012, 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 7th, 2007, 9:07 pm

February 11th, 2012, 3:45 am #8

Ugh. After mulling it over for a week while away on business, it looks as though I'm just gonna strip the whole thing (1/48 F-4E). I just wasn't happy with the way the paint went down. I use mostly Model Master enamels as they are the most readily available, thinned with straight lacquer thinner. Every once in a while, it dries all grainy in the wing to fuselage joint and sometimes at the base of the vertical stabiliser or other concave areas. Everywhere else is smooth. This time I just couldn't live with it. These paints frustrate me sometimes because I find them inconsistent. I thought I could hide it with clear coats, but no such luck. Oh well. I wasn't too happy with the step left at the windscreen joint to the fuselage anyway, so this gives me an opportunity to address that issue too.

Still, it's a four-tone USAF SEA camo pattern, so it'll take a few hours to redo the whole thing.

Another issue is the paint tones being kinda screwy. Model Master's Medium Green (FS 34102) and Dark Green (34079) dried looking almost identical in places, which is not acceptable to me. I'm sure I mixed them thoroughly, but they insist on toying with me. From pictures I've seen, they should be much more distinct.

If you've encountered this grainy finish in the same sorts of areas described and can offer a solution, please do!

TIA

Matt
when turpentine works perfectly with enamels?

My girl - well she's kind of an ugly girl. But,that's O.K. I like ugly girls. Because pretty girls can do anything, but ugly girls have to do everything.
-John Birks "Dizzy" Gillespie
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Joined: October 21st, 2005, 2:28 pm

February 11th, 2012, 4:46 pm #9

Ugh. After mulling it over for a week while away on business, it looks as though I'm just gonna strip the whole thing (1/48 F-4E). I just wasn't happy with the way the paint went down. I use mostly Model Master enamels as they are the most readily available, thinned with straight lacquer thinner. Every once in a while, it dries all grainy in the wing to fuselage joint and sometimes at the base of the vertical stabiliser or other concave areas. Everywhere else is smooth. This time I just couldn't live with it. These paints frustrate me sometimes because I find them inconsistent. I thought I could hide it with clear coats, but no such luck. Oh well. I wasn't too happy with the step left at the windscreen joint to the fuselage anyway, so this gives me an opportunity to address that issue too.

Still, it's a four-tone USAF SEA camo pattern, so it'll take a few hours to redo the whole thing.

Another issue is the paint tones being kinda screwy. Model Master's Medium Green (FS 34102) and Dark Green (34079) dried looking almost identical in places, which is not acceptable to me. I'm sure I mixed them thoroughly, but they insist on toying with me. From pictures I've seen, they should be much more distinct.

If you've encountered this grainy finish in the same sorts of areas described and can offer a solution, please do!

TIA

Matt
Hi Matt,

Not trying to sound arrogant, but honestly, i don't know why people think this is such a great solution- It's not.

The problem is largely because the thinner is too volatile and the paint is drying before it hits the plastic; you need something with a much slower evaporation rate. i use plain old Turpentine. Not the fastest evaporating stuff out there, but i can tolerate the smell better and its probably slightly less hazardous to be around. As long as the underlying plastic is clean, it will "etch" the plastic adequately to bond to the model.

And if you don't like Turpentine, my second suggestion would be to use the Testors Universal Thinner.

Second, i don't see the need to strip the model completely. Just wet sand it down with 1500 grit to smooth stuff out and then re-spray.

Finally, Roger Jackson did an excellent article in Aerospace Modeller about building an Operation Bolo F-4 and he specifically mentioned the contrast issue with the two Model Master SEA dark greens. I know he altered at least one of them to improve the contrast.

An FS Colour match should only be a starting point for painting a realistic model; not an ending point.

Wet sand the F-4 down, and give the turpentine a try. Let us know if you still have problems. What kind of airbrush are you using??

david
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 4:14 am

February 11th, 2012, 7:39 pm #10

Ugh. After mulling it over for a week while away on business, it looks as though I'm just gonna strip the whole thing (1/48 F-4E). I just wasn't happy with the way the paint went down. I use mostly Model Master enamels as they are the most readily available, thinned with straight lacquer thinner. Every once in a while, it dries all grainy in the wing to fuselage joint and sometimes at the base of the vertical stabiliser or other concave areas. Everywhere else is smooth. This time I just couldn't live with it. These paints frustrate me sometimes because I find them inconsistent. I thought I could hide it with clear coats, but no such luck. Oh well. I wasn't too happy with the step left at the windscreen joint to the fuselage anyway, so this gives me an opportunity to address that issue too.

Still, it's a four-tone USAF SEA camo pattern, so it'll take a few hours to redo the whole thing.

Another issue is the paint tones being kinda screwy. Model Master's Medium Green (FS 34102) and Dark Green (34079) dried looking almost identical in places, which is not acceptable to me. I'm sure I mixed them thoroughly, but they insist on toying with me. From pictures I've seen, they should be much more distinct.

If you've encountered this grainy finish in the same sorts of areas described and can offer a solution, please do!

TIA

Matt
Along with the lacquer thinner flashing off too quickly, is that wing roots and other sharp angles provide a place for air vortex's to develop, effectively increasing the air speed in those corners, which also helps to force the paint to dry too quickly in those corners. One trick to try is to start spraying in those corners at lower pressure and move out from there. If that makes any sense....

Mike
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