Phantom Question

Phantom Question

Joined: November 17th, 2005, 3:42 pm

June 2nd, 2011, 3:00 pm #1

Working on converting a Tamiya 1/32nd scale F-4J to an F-4B using a combination of both CAM and Cutting Edge components. The question is, what's the story on the raised panels/patches on the kits upper fuselage. Do they represent removable inspection panels or battle damage repairs. Should they be sanded flush or left standing proud. I seem to remember a discussion about battle damage repairs on the actual F-4 used in planning the kit.
Last edited by ppalmer on June 2nd, 2011, 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 2:02 am

June 2nd, 2011, 5:13 pm #2

that were on one of the static display F-4s Tamiya used for reference when they made the 32nd F-4. Back in the day, about every fighter base had one or two old F-4, 101, or other airframe they would use to punch holes in and practice ABDR patching on. Use your our references to removed the ABDR patches, but also note there were a couple of actual beef up plates on some lot USAF F-4s.

Mike V

"I am a "Realist". I see and call things as they are, not how I want them to be."

Some people just don't get it - "apologist
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Joined: October 22nd, 2009, 11:44 pm

June 2nd, 2011, 6:23 pm #3

Most of the raised areas could and should be removed. Ones that remain, either USAF or USN, are beneath the wings at the fold joint and the "arrowhead" panels on the stabilators. Reference Monogram 1/48 F-4 kit. The F-4N at NMNA has the reinforcing panels under the wing at the wing-fold.

Are you using short afterburner cans such as from the Tamiya F-4C/D ? Good luck with your project, George
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Joined: August 16th, 2010, 11:10 pm

June 2nd, 2011, 11:48 pm #4

Going off memory, he worked on F-4 airframes, and made the point that all the "patches" were in the same position and were of the same size as corresponding panels on the real bird. That, he pointed out, was not how BDR patches were applied, especially on a former instructional bird. In the numbers that they are represented on the Tamiya kit, that is what it would have to be based on apparently, a line bird would not be so riddled with them . So if the Tamiya kit is based on a BDR festooned bird used for instruction, you would expect to see some smaller, less perfect patches with a larger scribed panel line surrounding it,with the patches more scattered about, which is not the case. Everyone points out how convenient it is to use the raised patches as a guide to rescribe the panel lines before removing them, so I guess he has a point. Or not, I don't know.
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 2:02 am

June 3rd, 2011, 6:24 am #5

is that most of the side fuselage ABDR patches on the kit matched the real F-4D we used at Miswawa for ABDR repair practice. The F-4 (Trip-6 as I recall) was later relocated to a local museum or sort.

Mike V


"I am a "Realist". I see and call things as they are, not how I want them to be."

Some people just don't get it - "apologist
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Joined: August 16th, 2010, 11:10 pm

June 3rd, 2011, 12:00 pm #6

When you made a patch, was it cut to the same size as the underlying panel that it was being attached to? Or would scribing panel lines using the edges of Tamiya's raised "patches" (or whatever they are)as a guide give you incorrect panel lines? I was just under the assumption that a BDR patch would be somewhat irregularly sized and not matched exactly to whatever panel it was being applied over, based on the size of the damage it was covering.Also, I believe Tamiya's patches were the same left and right side. Would that be the norm for a patched up school bird? Or perhaps Tamiya just applied the same pattern of raised areas from one side to both sides, assuming they were the same? Just thinking out loud.

BTW, any chance I can get one of those Sufa wheels? The Hasegawa F-5E hub would work nicely with the PWMP tire, if only I had been able to drill out the hub in a fashion that didn't look like I used a ice pick to do it. Ruined the hub, ruined the tire, ruined my day...
Last edited by eoyguy on June 3rd, 2011, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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17G
Joined: August 16th, 2007, 9:27 pm

June 5th, 2011, 12:34 am #7

Working on converting a Tamiya 1/32nd scale F-4J to an F-4B using a combination of both CAM and Cutting Edge components. The question is, what's the story on the raised panels/patches on the kits upper fuselage. Do they represent removable inspection panels or battle damage repairs. Should they be sanded flush or left standing proud. I seem to remember a discussion about battle damage repairs on the actual F-4 used in planning the kit.
An example of an ABDR training airframe.

[/IMG]
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17G
Joined: August 16th, 2007, 9:27 pm

June 5th, 2011, 12:34 am #8

Working on converting a Tamiya 1/32nd scale F-4J to an F-4B using a combination of both CAM and Cutting Edge components. The question is, what's the story on the raised panels/patches on the kits upper fuselage. Do they represent removable inspection panels or battle damage repairs. Should they be sanded flush or left standing proud. I seem to remember a discussion about battle damage repairs on the actual F-4 used in planning the kit.
Sorry, double post.
Last edited by 17G on June 5th, 2011, 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 16th, 2010, 11:10 pm

June 5th, 2011, 12:42 am #9

An example of an ABDR training airframe.

[/IMG]
is probably festooned with something other than BDR patches, since none of Tamiya's anything but square or rectangular. No polygons, triangles, ellipses, trapezoids, parallelograms...and all of Tamiyas match panel lines, apparently.
Oh, and Tamiya's are about a scale 4 inches thick. They are like add on armor.
Last edited by eoyguy on June 5th, 2011, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 16th, 2010, 11:10 pm

June 5th, 2011, 12:42 am #10

When you made a patch, was it cut to the same size as the underlying panel that it was being attached to? Or would scribing panel lines using the edges of Tamiya's raised "patches" (or whatever they are)as a guide give you incorrect panel lines? I was just under the assumption that a BDR patch would be somewhat irregularly sized and not matched exactly to whatever panel it was being applied over, based on the size of the damage it was covering.Also, I believe Tamiya's patches were the same left and right side. Would that be the norm for a patched up school bird? Or perhaps Tamiya just applied the same pattern of raised areas from one side to both sides, assuming they were the same? Just thinking out loud.

BTW, any chance I can get one of those Sufa wheels? The Hasegawa F-5E hub would work nicely with the PWMP tire, if only I had been able to drill out the hub in a fashion that didn't look like I used a ice pick to do it. Ruined the hub, ruined the tire, ruined my day...
and a no comment.
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