P-61 help

.

P-61 help

Joined: July 5th, 2012, 8:59 pm

July 5th, 2012, 8:59 pm #1

Hello,

This is the first time that I post a message here. I have been reading this forum for a long time. But this is the first time that I need your help.

I am building Monogram's P-61 Black Widow (one of the Revell boxes). I want to make "Lady in the Dark". Yes, I know, it is not the most original Widow. But I like it and I don't have it in my cabinet

My documentation says that the "Lady" had dorsal guns, but no turret. I know that there were some differences between the turret cover and the fixed guns cover. Unfortunately, I have not found any detailed photo of that cover.

I would like to know what I should do to modify the turret included in the kit and get the fixed guns cover. I have a general photograph of a P-61 from above were I can see that it has a straight trailing edge. But I have no lateral view nor detailed views. Any photograph of the cover will be welcome.

Also, I understand that as there were no turret, the "Lady" did not have the gun-aiming devices. But did it have the gunner seat? I know that it was dismounted in some P-61A that had no dorsal guns, but I do not know if this practice was common or if it was applied in P-61Bs with fixed guns.

Finally, I have a question about the markings. I would like to build the "Lady" as it was in the final days of WWII. The information I have says that it had red spinners and engine flaps. And a red line around the nose radome. The nose art was only in the right side.

But I have no information about the left side, and the Revell instructions are useless as they show a nose art also in that side, that I know is incorrect. Did the airplane had any marking in the left side other than the airplane stencils and the squadron badge? Maybe the name of the crew members?

Thank you very much. I am a slow modeler and I'm afraid this project will be long. It's the fist time in years that I build a Monogram model (I built an Apache helicopter and a Prowler many years ago). And it's my first black airplane. But I promise that I will post some photographs. Some day
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Joined: February 24th, 2002, 4:17 pm

July 5th, 2012, 9:17 pm #2

As far as I have found, there are no images of the left side. But someone else may know of one.

As for originality of markings, you're building it for yourself, so it is a non issue.

I don't believe she had red spinner or cowl flaps, perhaps a post war embellishment.

She did not have a red band around the nose. It appears the nose cover had been removed so many times that it was badly worn and that good old tape was perhaps used. You can also see it on a small cover on the nose.



A badly worn Lady.


A 1948 photo taken at the Clark AB bone yard. As for the "turret" if it is not, it looks like one.



BTW, I have seen representation of exhaust on black P-61s that look absurd. Better example.







There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming
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Joined: May 11th, 2005, 5:33 pm

July 5th, 2012, 9:19 pm #3

Hello,

This is the first time that I post a message here. I have been reading this forum for a long time. But this is the first time that I need your help.

I am building Monogram's P-61 Black Widow (one of the Revell boxes). I want to make "Lady in the Dark". Yes, I know, it is not the most original Widow. But I like it and I don't have it in my cabinet

My documentation says that the "Lady" had dorsal guns, but no turret. I know that there were some differences between the turret cover and the fixed guns cover. Unfortunately, I have not found any detailed photo of that cover.

I would like to know what I should do to modify the turret included in the kit and get the fixed guns cover. I have a general photograph of a P-61 from above were I can see that it has a straight trailing edge. But I have no lateral view nor detailed views. Any photograph of the cover will be welcome.

Also, I understand that as there were no turret, the "Lady" did not have the gun-aiming devices. But did it have the gunner seat? I know that it was dismounted in some P-61A that had no dorsal guns, but I do not know if this practice was common or if it was applied in P-61Bs with fixed guns.

Finally, I have a question about the markings. I would like to build the "Lady" as it was in the final days of WWII. The information I have says that it had red spinners and engine flaps. And a red line around the nose radome. The nose art was only in the right side.

But I have no information about the left side, and the Revell instructions are useless as they show a nose art also in that side, that I know is incorrect. Did the airplane had any marking in the left side other than the airplane stencils and the squadron badge? Maybe the name of the crew members?

Thank you very much. I am a slow modeler and I'm afraid this project will be long. It's the fist time in years that I build a Monogram model (I built an Apache helicopter and a Prowler many years ago). And it's my first black airplane. But I promise that I will post some photographs. Some day




Sergey.
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Joined: February 24th, 2002, 4:17 pm

July 5th, 2012, 9:22 pm #4

No slab there.



There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming
Last edited by modeldad on July 5th, 2012, 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 30th, 2010, 9:24 pm

July 5th, 2012, 9:54 pm #5

As far as I have found, there are no images of the left side. But someone else may know of one.

As for originality of markings, you're building it for yourself, so it is a non issue.

I don't believe she had red spinner or cowl flaps, perhaps a post war embellishment.

She did not have a red band around the nose. It appears the nose cover had been removed so many times that it was badly worn and that good old tape was perhaps used. You can also see it on a small cover on the nose.



A badly worn Lady.


A 1948 photo taken at the Clark AB bone yard. As for the "turret" if it is not, it looks like one.



BTW, I have seen representation of exhaust on black P-61s that look absurd. Better example.







There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming
Doesn't answer the question but nice shot anyway. "Bat Outa Hell" Photo from Fold3
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Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 1:35 pm

July 5th, 2012, 9:58 pm #6

Hello,

This is the first time that I post a message here. I have been reading this forum for a long time. But this is the first time that I need your help.

I am building Monogram's P-61 Black Widow (one of the Revell boxes). I want to make "Lady in the Dark". Yes, I know, it is not the most original Widow. But I like it and I don't have it in my cabinet

My documentation says that the "Lady" had dorsal guns, but no turret. I know that there were some differences between the turret cover and the fixed guns cover. Unfortunately, I have not found any detailed photo of that cover.

I would like to know what I should do to modify the turret included in the kit and get the fixed guns cover. I have a general photograph of a P-61 from above were I can see that it has a straight trailing edge. But I have no lateral view nor detailed views. Any photograph of the cover will be welcome.

Also, I understand that as there were no turret, the "Lady" did not have the gun-aiming devices. But did it have the gunner seat? I know that it was dismounted in some P-61A that had no dorsal guns, but I do not know if this practice was common or if it was applied in P-61Bs with fixed guns.

Finally, I have a question about the markings. I would like to build the "Lady" as it was in the final days of WWII. The information I have says that it had red spinners and engine flaps. And a red line around the nose radome. The nose art was only in the right side.

But I have no information about the left side, and the Revell instructions are useless as they show a nose art also in that side, that I know is incorrect. Did the airplane had any marking in the left side other than the airplane stencils and the squadron badge? Maybe the name of the crew members?

Thank you very much. I am a slow modeler and I'm afraid this project will be long. It's the fist time in years that I build a Monogram model (I built an Apache helicopter and a Prowler many years ago). And it's my first black airplane. But I promise that I will post some photographs. Some day
Anecdotal evidence......

Lady in the Dark
TomWTomW (no login)12.150.69.2
October 24 2001, 5:21 PM

Matt,

This question came up some months back and I posted this info then but here it is again.

In the´70´s I was priveleged enough to see colour movies of "Lady in the Dark" taken on Ie Shima in 1945 by a guy named Jim Weir (could be Wier), who was the officer in charge of the gun cameras for one of P-47N squadrons of the 318th FG. The dress was, without question, Blue, and furthermore the cowl flaps were red, neither of which I had ever seen in any depiction of the aircraft up to that time. I was so dumbstruck by this (well, ok, I was dumbstruck at birth), that I blurted out: "It´s blue! It´s blue! The --- damn dress is blue!" Trust me on this one, it´s like remembering where you were when you heard about Kennedy, or the Challenger, or the WTC, you don´t forget, or mix it up, the dress was blue.

I will also say again, that Jim weir wa from the Pittsburgh area and had taken over the family undertaking business. If anyone listening out ther is from Pittsburgh and can run him down, it should be done. These films are an absolute treasure for modelers, he shot everything on the island with interesting nose art, including "The Dragon and his Tail" and another B-24 just as spectacular "It Ain´t So Funny", with cartoon characters of the day from nose to tail. (Both of these were seen from the right side only and Jim was pretty sure the markings were only on that side, but not 100% certain) The 318th had a LOT of nose art on its P-47N´s, but unfortunately, Jim shot just that, the nose art, not the whole aircraft. The three I mentioned above were taxiing past, so he got all of them, and there were shots of P-47´s in motion that you could work out the codes and serials for some of the nose art from, but not anywhere near all. Anyway, again, if you are from Pittsburgh, try to find Jim and find out what has become of this film. It needs to be preserved and it needs to be seen.

HTH,

Tom


x
xdogoscarnan
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Joined: April 30th, 2010, 9:24 pm

July 5th, 2012, 10:07 pm #7

Hello,

This is the first time that I post a message here. I have been reading this forum for a long time. But this is the first time that I need your help.

I am building Monogram's P-61 Black Widow (one of the Revell boxes). I want to make "Lady in the Dark". Yes, I know, it is not the most original Widow. But I like it and I don't have it in my cabinet

My documentation says that the "Lady" had dorsal guns, but no turret. I know that there were some differences between the turret cover and the fixed guns cover. Unfortunately, I have not found any detailed photo of that cover.

I would like to know what I should do to modify the turret included in the kit and get the fixed guns cover. I have a general photograph of a P-61 from above were I can see that it has a straight trailing edge. But I have no lateral view nor detailed views. Any photograph of the cover will be welcome.

Also, I understand that as there were no turret, the "Lady" did not have the gun-aiming devices. But did it have the gunner seat? I know that it was dismounted in some P-61A that had no dorsal guns, but I do not know if this practice was common or if it was applied in P-61Bs with fixed guns.

Finally, I have a question about the markings. I would like to build the "Lady" as it was in the final days of WWII. The information I have says that it had red spinners and engine flaps. And a red line around the nose radome. The nose art was only in the right side.

But I have no information about the left side, and the Revell instructions are useless as they show a nose art also in that side, that I know is incorrect. Did the airplane had any marking in the left side other than the airplane stencils and the squadron badge? Maybe the name of the crew members?

Thank you very much. I am a slow modeler and I'm afraid this project will be long. It's the fist time in years that I build a Monogram model (I built an Apache helicopter and a Prowler many years ago). And it's my first black airplane. But I promise that I will post some photographs. Some day
More from Fold 3
Go to: http://www.fold3.com/title_495/wwii_us_ ... ce_photos/
Search on "maintenance"

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Last edited by RD2484 on July 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 12th, 2006, 2:49 pm

July 5th, 2012, 11:41 pm #8

Hello,

This is the first time that I post a message here. I have been reading this forum for a long time. But this is the first time that I need your help.

I am building Monogram's P-61 Black Widow (one of the Revell boxes). I want to make "Lady in the Dark". Yes, I know, it is not the most original Widow. But I like it and I don't have it in my cabinet

My documentation says that the "Lady" had dorsal guns, but no turret. I know that there were some differences between the turret cover and the fixed guns cover. Unfortunately, I have not found any detailed photo of that cover.

I would like to know what I should do to modify the turret included in the kit and get the fixed guns cover. I have a general photograph of a P-61 from above were I can see that it has a straight trailing edge. But I have no lateral view nor detailed views. Any photograph of the cover will be welcome.

Also, I understand that as there were no turret, the "Lady" did not have the gun-aiming devices. But did it have the gunner seat? I know that it was dismounted in some P-61A that had no dorsal guns, but I do not know if this practice was common or if it was applied in P-61Bs with fixed guns.

Finally, I have a question about the markings. I would like to build the "Lady" as it was in the final days of WWII. The information I have says that it had red spinners and engine flaps. And a red line around the nose radome. The nose art was only in the right side.

But I have no information about the left side, and the Revell instructions are useless as they show a nose art also in that side, that I know is incorrect. Did the airplane had any marking in the left side other than the airplane stencils and the squadron badge? Maybe the name of the crew members?

Thank you very much. I am a slow modeler and I'm afraid this project will be long. It's the fist time in years that I build a Monogram model (I built an Apache helicopter and a Prowler many years ago). And it's my first black airplane. But I promise that I will post some photographs. Some day
You guys always have the hard to find shots.

This is one hell of a great place!

Thanks!






Kaibutsu
Kaibutsu --- Andrew Gaitan
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 12:37 am

July 6th, 2012, 12:12 am #9

The "Lady" did have the fixed upper guns on her. Be careful of the decal sheets for the "Lady". A lot of them show the wrong tail number and get the color of the dress wrong on the nose art. the dress should be blue, not red. I'd have to look upt the tail number( a bit tired- - had a six hour trip with my oldest son to pick up a 24 enclosed car trailer for his shop). Shoot me an e-mail for more info and assistance in the build.


Cheers, Terry
(certifiable P-61 NUT!!)

I also make the gun cover and nose weights for both RM and GWH P-61 kits)
Last edited by nightiemission on July 6th, 2012, 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 4:10 pm

July 6th, 2012, 1:42 am #10

Hello,

This is the first time that I post a message here. I have been reading this forum for a long time. But this is the first time that I need your help.

I am building Monogram's P-61 Black Widow (one of the Revell boxes). I want to make "Lady in the Dark". Yes, I know, it is not the most original Widow. But I like it and I don't have it in my cabinet

My documentation says that the "Lady" had dorsal guns, but no turret. I know that there were some differences between the turret cover and the fixed guns cover. Unfortunately, I have not found any detailed photo of that cover.

I would like to know what I should do to modify the turret included in the kit and get the fixed guns cover. I have a general photograph of a P-61 from above were I can see that it has a straight trailing edge. But I have no lateral view nor detailed views. Any photograph of the cover will be welcome.

Also, I understand that as there were no turret, the "Lady" did not have the gun-aiming devices. But did it have the gunner seat? I know that it was dismounted in some P-61A that had no dorsal guns, but I do not know if this practice was common or if it was applied in P-61Bs with fixed guns.

Finally, I have a question about the markings. I would like to build the "Lady" as it was in the final days of WWII. The information I have says that it had red spinners and engine flaps. And a red line around the nose radome. The nose art was only in the right side.

But I have no information about the left side, and the Revell instructions are useless as they show a nose art also in that side, that I know is incorrect. Did the airplane had any marking in the left side other than the airplane stencils and the squadron badge? Maybe the name of the crew members?

Thank you very much. I am a slow modeler and I'm afraid this project will be long. It's the fist time in years that I build a Monogram model (I built an Apache helicopter and a Prowler many years ago). And it's my first black airplane. But I promise that I will post some photographs. Some day
http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest.htm

You can't spend your way out of poverty
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