Monogram B-24 mods

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Monogram B-24 mods

Joined: February 8th, 2008, 6:54 pm

September 12th, 2010, 5:33 pm #1

I am working on the 1/48 B-24D. I am rescribing, replacing the clear parts, replacing many details including the wheel wells and opening the rear of the nacells. I know the problem with the rear turret and canopy, are there any other glaring errors. Do the verticle stabilizers lean back too far? Thanks.
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Joined: October 21st, 2005, 2:28 pm

September 12th, 2010, 5:48 pm #2

Hi David,

In general, i think the shape of the Monogram B-24 is pretty good except in one area- The cockpit and upper nose profile.

To me, the canopy looks foreshortened in height, and the upper profile of the fuselage from the windscreen forward to the turret doesn't look right to me at all. I think the only people who "nailed" this shape properly was Hasegawa.

i don't know how much can be done to fix this, but its one of those things that sticks in my craw and spoils what is otherwise a very good model especially considering its age. Fixing it will probably require a horizontal chop job to remove the upper nose section, then the development of an integrated upper fuselage/Canopy part. It would be a rather complicated and demanding task.

i guess the flamings is gonna begin now. Running for cover.

Bon Chance,

david
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Joined: February 24th, 2002, 4:17 pm

September 12th, 2010, 7:04 pm #3

I am working on the 1/48 B-24D. I am rescribing, replacing the clear parts, replacing many details including the wheel wells and opening the rear of the nacells. I know the problem with the rear turret and canopy, are there any other glaring errors. Do the verticle stabilizers lean back too far? Thanks.
I'll email you the article. The tail was a big issue.



There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming
Last edited by modeldad on September 12th, 2010, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 12:41 am

September 12th, 2010, 8:46 pm #4

and I would assume it would apply to the D since they are basically the same mold.

Cheers,
Dave
Last edited by dgcantrell on September 12th, 2010, 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 1:35 pm

September 12th, 2010, 9:02 pm #5

I am working on the 1/48 B-24D. I am rescribing, replacing the clear parts, replacing many details including the wheel wells and opening the rear of the nacells. I know the problem with the rear turret and canopy, are there any other glaring errors. Do the verticle stabilizers lean back too far? Thanks.
David,

Fixing and detailing the 1/48 B-24D can turn into quite a project. The basic Monogram B-24D kit does not represent the D version very well. Detailing the interior is a major undertaking. I won't comment on the interior. Here are some other things to fix:

- Wrong tail turret:

The B-24D used the A-6 turret with the staggered guns. You can modify the kit turret (representing the A-6B type) or get Bill Koster's clear parts for the A-6 turret. If you do get the Koster parts, get the resin turret interior parts. These parts make the turret assembly a little easier.

- Trim tabs:

The rudder trim tabs represent the latter aircraft configuration. The B-24D rudder tabs were almost 3 feet in length. Reduce the length of the trim tabs by scribing new hinge lines one rib tape line inwards, top and bottom, centered on the center line of the rudder. Fill in the old hinge lines.

The trim tabs on all control surfaces had piano hinges on one side. Use small pieces of stretched sprue to represent the hinges. D&S has good images that show how the trim tabs were attached and activated.

Aileron trim tab on the right aileron only. Fill in the left aileron trim tab. And while you are it, remove the fabric detail and those strange wavy raised ribs on all of the fabric control surfaces.

- Ball turret:

Not all B-24D's had the ball turret installed. You may need to replace the rear crew hatch with the so-called tunnel gun installation. The kit does not provide the correct clear rear crew entry door, the internal X frame for the tunnel gun and the tunnel gun.

- Nose guns:

An excerpt from Phil Marcheses post to HS regarding the configuration of the three nose guns:

The port cheek gun windows came in four common versions on the B-24D plus at least two late (rare) configurations that attempt to provide more of a forward angle (same concept as late F series Forts). The Main four variations are as follows:

* A long cheek window from St Paul, seen mostly on 98th BG originals (mostly 41-11700-900).

* A nearly square, short cheek window used on most indigenous D-CF (42-63XXX) and D-CO modified by Fort Worth thru D-20-CO (mostly after D-1-CO.

* a mid-length internally braced cheek window on D-CO modified by St Paul possibly as early as some 41-11800 and thru D-1 to D-20-CO.

* The factory cheek window with the external framing over the gun mount and the large doubler plate that also surrounds the nav window. This appears a very few late D-20-CO but begins in earnest on the D-25-CO and all D-30-CO onward except the few late variations mentioned above or those which have had the cheek windows tampered during the D1 turret mod process.

The cheek windows and greenhouse on the later E series were different.

- Props:

Early B-24D's used narrow chord props. Koster had a set of these for the PB4Y-2 in metal that can be used. Or modify the kit props to suit. Don't bother to correct the cowlings for the narrow chord props.

- Misc. details:

- Remove wingtip navigation lights. Keep the teardrop shaped lights top and bottom of the wingtip.

- Don't install the rectangular boxes in the openings at the rear of the engine nacelles that you laboriously opened. These boxes are not the oil coolers. These boxes are the air filters for protected (non-ram, filtered) combustion air. Not used on most B-24Ds.

- Add the red left wing passing light.

- Open a small, square opening in the rear fuselage under the rear turret to represent the ejection chute for the cases for the rear A-6 turret. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image that shows this little known or illustrated detail. The spent cases from the guns in the A-6 turret were collected in the bottom the turret and ejected overboard through this opening. The guns had a "link ejection guide" installed to deflect links out of the turret as they were ejected from the guns.

- Add the lens in the signal lamp fairing below the rear turret. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image.

- The representation of the tunnel gun scanning windows in the lower rear fuselage is not correct for early B-24Ds. Early B-24Ds had the fuselage skin cut away and the scanning windows attached to the exterior of the fuselage. The internal frames and longerons were visible. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image that shows that this type of window was proud of the exterior fuselage skin.

- If desired, add the small vent and pressurization intake for the fuel system. These were located in the fuselage just above the wing near the rear edge of the fuselage raft compartment. Do not use the kit provided post-type vents on the upper wing.

- Add a fire extinguisher access panel to the right side just aft of the rear bomb bay door.

- Add the external lights and various antennae.

- And get some good .50 cal. MGs.

- Check the location of the pitot masts. Early B-24Ds had the masts horizontal at near mid-fuselage.

- Get hold of the George Hopp drawing of the B-24D to confirm location of the various doors and panel lines. The kit has some of these wrong. Have fun scribing this kit. The ones that I have scribed have a very hard plastic.

Likely that I've overlooked things that need fixing on this kit. Other B-24 folks here will fill in.

Don


x
xdogoscarnan
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Joined: March 30th, 2005, 6:53 pm

September 12th, 2010, 9:03 pm #6

I'll email you the article. The tail was a big issue.



There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming
J and D are not so far from top of my "must do now" pile...

TIA, Aras
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Joined: April 11th, 2006, 10:07 pm

September 12th, 2010, 10:02 pm #7

David,

Fixing and detailing the 1/48 B-24D can turn into quite a project. The basic Monogram B-24D kit does not represent the D version very well. Detailing the interior is a major undertaking. I won't comment on the interior. Here are some other things to fix:

- Wrong tail turret:

The B-24D used the A-6 turret with the staggered guns. You can modify the kit turret (representing the A-6B type) or get Bill Koster's clear parts for the A-6 turret. If you do get the Koster parts, get the resin turret interior parts. These parts make the turret assembly a little easier.

- Trim tabs:

The rudder trim tabs represent the latter aircraft configuration. The B-24D rudder tabs were almost 3 feet in length. Reduce the length of the trim tabs by scribing new hinge lines one rib tape line inwards, top and bottom, centered on the center line of the rudder. Fill in the old hinge lines.

The trim tabs on all control surfaces had piano hinges on one side. Use small pieces of stretched sprue to represent the hinges. D&S has good images that show how the trim tabs were attached and activated.

Aileron trim tab on the right aileron only. Fill in the left aileron trim tab. And while you are it, remove the fabric detail and those strange wavy raised ribs on all of the fabric control surfaces.

- Ball turret:

Not all B-24D's had the ball turret installed. You may need to replace the rear crew hatch with the so-called tunnel gun installation. The kit does not provide the correct clear rear crew entry door, the internal X frame for the tunnel gun and the tunnel gun.

- Nose guns:

An excerpt from Phil Marcheses post to HS regarding the configuration of the three nose guns:

The port cheek gun windows came in four common versions on the B-24D plus at least two late (rare) configurations that attempt to provide more of a forward angle (same concept as late F series Forts). The Main four variations are as follows:

* A long cheek window from St Paul, seen mostly on 98th BG originals (mostly 41-11700-900).

* A nearly square, short cheek window used on most indigenous D-CF (42-63XXX) and D-CO modified by Fort Worth thru D-20-CO (mostly after D-1-CO.

* a mid-length internally braced cheek window on D-CO modified by St Paul possibly as early as some 41-11800 and thru D-1 to D-20-CO.

* The factory cheek window with the external framing over the gun mount and the large doubler plate that also surrounds the nav window. This appears a very few late D-20-CO but begins in earnest on the D-25-CO and all D-30-CO onward except the few late variations mentioned above or those which have had the cheek windows tampered during the D1 turret mod process.

The cheek windows and greenhouse on the later E series were different.

- Props:

Early B-24D's used narrow chord props. Koster had a set of these for the PB4Y-2 in metal that can be used. Or modify the kit props to suit. Don't bother to correct the cowlings for the narrow chord props.

- Misc. details:

- Remove wingtip navigation lights. Keep the teardrop shaped lights top and bottom of the wingtip.

- Don't install the rectangular boxes in the openings at the rear of the engine nacelles that you laboriously opened. These boxes are not the oil coolers. These boxes are the air filters for protected (non-ram, filtered) combustion air. Not used on most B-24Ds.

- Add the red left wing passing light.

- Open a small, square opening in the rear fuselage under the rear turret to represent the ejection chute for the cases for the rear A-6 turret. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image that shows this little known or illustrated detail. The spent cases from the guns in the A-6 turret were collected in the bottom the turret and ejected overboard through this opening. The guns had a "link ejection guide" installed to deflect links out of the turret as they were ejected from the guns.

- Add the lens in the signal lamp fairing below the rear turret. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image.

- The representation of the tunnel gun scanning windows in the lower rear fuselage is not correct for early B-24Ds. Early B-24Ds had the fuselage skin cut away and the scanning windows attached to the exterior of the fuselage. The internal frames and longerons were visible. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image that shows that this type of window was proud of the exterior fuselage skin.

- If desired, add the small vent and pressurization intake for the fuel system. These were located in the fuselage just above the wing near the rear edge of the fuselage raft compartment. Do not use the kit provided post-type vents on the upper wing.

- Add a fire extinguisher access panel to the right side just aft of the rear bomb bay door.

- Add the external lights and various antennae.

- And get some good .50 cal. MGs.

- Check the location of the pitot masts. Early B-24Ds had the masts horizontal at near mid-fuselage.

- Get hold of the George Hopp drawing of the B-24D to confirm location of the various doors and panel lines. The kit has some of these wrong. Have fun scribing this kit. The ones that I have scribed have a very hard plastic.

Likely that I've overlooked things that need fixing on this kit. Other B-24 folks here will fill in.

Don


x
my 'discovery' from viewing an ancient Squadron book on WW II bombers that included Granger drawings. The vertical & horizontal cross sections of the vertical tails and horiz stabs revealed a curious shape to leading edges of rudders and elevators. Then, when I reviewed photo's, it became apparent that, unlike our standard rounded edges, the profile radically changes half way down. Monogram includes the effect on the rudders, but not the elevators, on their top side.

Another distinction one can add involves the metal sheeting on the leading edges of the vertical stabs. Modern photos show an obvious scallop effect from overlaps. It's not a butt joined panel line, as we often assume from most drawings or moldings. Simply shave a bit on one side or the other of each panel that makes the L/E, much like the effect of dimpling rivets or panel overlays on ribs and spars (shown on Hyperscale with a Fw-190 to everyone's proper joy).

Paul Budzik is a million miles out of my league, setting a well-lit path to a mortal's efforts to build, with articles that show a practical, humane approach to great results. I save and use them. However, I disagree with his assertion that the horiz stab needs to be leveled. What I see in photos and drawrings is that Monogram got that right. Granger shows a couple degrees positive angle of attack (or, more properly, positive incidence to the centerline). It's pretty hard to notice, with those big verticals in the way.

Bomb Bays: if open, you can replace the doors, using thin sheet over a corrugated sheet used by model RRdrs for siding. Kinda tempting, but then there's the whole bomb bay thing to tinker with. I've only done the doors, so far.

Bravo to your great list, above. Right click that baby!

Ah, the good old days, when a finished model was a joy to behold, and I wondered very little about interiors I couldn't see anyway. Sigh. Restored-to-flying -24's show a variety of interior greens. Looks a lot like bronze green all over in my ref, "The Soldier." But, as usual, I've wandered well afar of my pay grade...





Model on, Wayne.
Model on, Garth.

*Note to modelers: the intended clever humor in this post is likely juvenile and will need further work. Those inclined may offer guidance. Others may simply shrug and move along. Supportive guffaws and laughter is appreciated and hereby acknowledged.
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Joined: February 24th, 2002, 4:17 pm

September 13th, 2010, 12:43 am #8

J and D are not so far from top of my "must do now" pile...

TIA, Aras
MSG = Medium sea gray



There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming
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Joined: February 8th, 2008, 6:54 pm

September 13th, 2010, 12:53 am #9

I am working on the 1/48 B-24D. I am rescribing, replacing the clear parts, replacing many details including the wheel wells and opening the rear of the nacells. I know the problem with the rear turret and canopy, are there any other glaring errors. Do the verticle stabilizers lean back too far? Thanks.
filler caps on the wing tops weren't there on the D model. Is this true?
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Joined: February 8th, 2008, 6:54 pm

September 13th, 2010, 12:56 am #10

Hi David,

In general, i think the shape of the Monogram B-24 is pretty good except in one area- The cockpit and upper nose profile.

To me, the canopy looks foreshortened in height, and the upper profile of the fuselage from the windscreen forward to the turret doesn't look right to me at all. I think the only people who "nailed" this shape properly was Hasegawa.

i don't know how much can be done to fix this, but its one of those things that sticks in my craw and spoils what is otherwise a very good model especially considering its age. Fixing it will probably require a horizontal chop job to remove the upper nose section, then the development of an integrated upper fuselage/Canopy part. It would be a rather complicated and demanding task.

i guess the flamings is gonna begin now. Running for cover.

Bon Chance,

david
FSM articles.
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