"If a person just wants to build, and has no interest in improving [his or her] models,...

.

"If a person just wants to build, and has no interest in improving [his or her] models,...

Joined: November 5th, 2005, 12:34 am

April 21st, 2012, 9:12 pm #1

...why waste time here?" This is a fascinating statement posted by a very frequent contributor to Hyperscale. I will heed the advice provided but I choose to present one more post here. The same person called me "Eugene" (a cultural reference I assume, with which I'm sorry to say I'm unfamiliar) and told me I was "grinding an axe". This metaphor I understand. Language is such a powerful weapon for good or bullying and so easy to misuse, as a legal worker who frequents this site and is in the favour of the management, has so often and aptly demonstrated.
I can't claim that I've ever felt very welcome here though I've tried to make contributions when my limited time and research resources have allowed.

I have long fought what I've come to see as the pernicious and joy-stealing urge to always perfect the products of my hobby time. Once AMS got hold of me it took a very very long time to once again find the pleasure in simply building kits "out-of-the-box". That I was not enjoying trying to build the best kit possible because in the end the final result was inevitably disappointing, was what I take as a positive epiphany with which to return to the fun that I personally feel modelling should be for me. Please take careful note of the liberal and uncharacteristic use of the personal pronoun here. I am not telling you how you should approach modelling, I'm telling you that your opinion about how I should approach modelling is finally (after reading far too many show-piece magazines and reading far too many doctrinal postings here) totally irrelevant to me. Yes, essentially I just want to build!

With that in mind, and no longer willing to put up with the arrogance of a certain self-serving and intolerant poster with whom management appears to agree(not the poster providing the above and below advice who actually seems like a decent fellow), and for what it's worth (little to nothing to most of you no doubt) I take my leave and follow the advice presented so well which I quote:
"If I had no interest in making my models better and/or more accurate, I'd avoid this forum altogether." This statement does strike me as being exclusionist if not elitist. I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers. I shan't post again here and very much doubt I'll bother looking in to see any responses which might be generated as the usual assortment of, "Glad to see your back" and "Who gives a $%#* that you're not going to come here anymore", would just bore me. I do, however, imagine that any advertisers who might get the chance to read this before it's deleted by the clean-up crew would find it interesting.

To the poster of the quoted messages, thank you sincerely (no sarcasm intended) for the clarity of your advice.
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Joined: November 5th, 2005, 12:34 am

April 21st, 2012, 9:22 pm #2

Just kidding ...bye
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Joined: February 28th, 2005, 5:27 am

April 21st, 2012, 10:00 pm #3

...why waste time here?" This is a fascinating statement posted by a very frequent contributor to Hyperscale. I will heed the advice provided but I choose to present one more post here. The same person called me "Eugene" (a cultural reference I assume, with which I'm sorry to say I'm unfamiliar) and told me I was "grinding an axe". This metaphor I understand. Language is such a powerful weapon for good or bullying and so easy to misuse, as a legal worker who frequents this site and is in the favour of the management, has so often and aptly demonstrated.
I can't claim that I've ever felt very welcome here though I've tried to make contributions when my limited time and research resources have allowed.

I have long fought what I've come to see as the pernicious and joy-stealing urge to always perfect the products of my hobby time. Once AMS got hold of me it took a very very long time to once again find the pleasure in simply building kits "out-of-the-box". That I was not enjoying trying to build the best kit possible because in the end the final result was inevitably disappointing, was what I take as a positive epiphany with which to return to the fun that I personally feel modelling should be for me. Please take careful note of the liberal and uncharacteristic use of the personal pronoun here. I am not telling you how you should approach modelling, I'm telling you that your opinion about how I should approach modelling is finally (after reading far too many show-piece magazines and reading far too many doctrinal postings here) totally irrelevant to me. Yes, essentially I just want to build!

With that in mind, and no longer willing to put up with the arrogance of a certain self-serving and intolerant poster with whom management appears to agree(not the poster providing the above and below advice who actually seems like a decent fellow), and for what it's worth (little to nothing to most of you no doubt) I take my leave and follow the advice presented so well which I quote:
"If I had no interest in making my models better and/or more accurate, I'd avoid this forum altogether." This statement does strike me as being exclusionist if not elitist. I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers. I shan't post again here and very much doubt I'll bother looking in to see any responses which might be generated as the usual assortment of, "Glad to see your back" and "Who gives a $%#* that you're not going to come here anymore", would just bore me. I do, however, imagine that any advertisers who might get the chance to read this before it's deleted by the clean-up crew would find it interesting.

To the poster of the quoted messages, thank you sincerely (no sarcasm intended) for the clarity of your advice.
And I have seen my fair share of that condescension you speak of (" I wouldn't build that piece of crap, only a fool would waste his time. But hey, if you want to want to go ahead."). And then the person who offers said statement crawls behind the last part: "hey, I said you can build it the way you want, what's your problem?"


But it doesn't mean that the rest of us should be thrown out WITH those condescending types.

AND, if you want to just BUILD a kit out of the box, feel no pressure whatsoever and have fun adding or not adding what you want, buy an Airfix kit and head over to the Airfix forum.

Someone over there is building the 1/72 il-2 and did tons of work on it, I'm about to build the same kit doing NO mods and I bet no one over there will make ANY comments about wasting time on such a crappy kit!
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Joined: January 4th, 2007, 8:44 am

April 21st, 2012, 10:08 pm #4

...why waste time here?" This is a fascinating statement posted by a very frequent contributor to Hyperscale. I will heed the advice provided but I choose to present one more post here. The same person called me "Eugene" (a cultural reference I assume, with which I'm sorry to say I'm unfamiliar) and told me I was "grinding an axe". This metaphor I understand. Language is such a powerful weapon for good or bullying and so easy to misuse, as a legal worker who frequents this site and is in the favour of the management, has so often and aptly demonstrated.
I can't claim that I've ever felt very welcome here though I've tried to make contributions when my limited time and research resources have allowed.

I have long fought what I've come to see as the pernicious and joy-stealing urge to always perfect the products of my hobby time. Once AMS got hold of me it took a very very long time to once again find the pleasure in simply building kits "out-of-the-box". That I was not enjoying trying to build the best kit possible because in the end the final result was inevitably disappointing, was what I take as a positive epiphany with which to return to the fun that I personally feel modelling should be for me. Please take careful note of the liberal and uncharacteristic use of the personal pronoun here. I am not telling you how you should approach modelling, I'm telling you that your opinion about how I should approach modelling is finally (after reading far too many show-piece magazines and reading far too many doctrinal postings here) totally irrelevant to me. Yes, essentially I just want to build!

With that in mind, and no longer willing to put up with the arrogance of a certain self-serving and intolerant poster with whom management appears to agree(not the poster providing the above and below advice who actually seems like a decent fellow), and for what it's worth (little to nothing to most of you no doubt) I take my leave and follow the advice presented so well which I quote:
"If I had no interest in making my models better and/or more accurate, I'd avoid this forum altogether." This statement does strike me as being exclusionist if not elitist. I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers. I shan't post again here and very much doubt I'll bother looking in to see any responses which might be generated as the usual assortment of, "Glad to see your back" and "Who gives a $%#* that you're not going to come here anymore", would just bore me. I do, however, imagine that any advertisers who might get the chance to read this before it's deleted by the clean-up crew would find it interesting.

To the poster of the quoted messages, thank you sincerely (no sarcasm intended) for the clarity of your advice.
Hi Roy.

EDIT: I just read your follow up post, and now I'm really confused. You were kidding about the whole thing, or about leaving HS?


Wow, I am really blown away by your reaction to my post. I was clearly trying to be light hearted, signified by the smiley faces in the post. I even made a lighthearted reference to your first name, as we share the same one.

The title of my post was a obscure reference to an old Pink Floyd song off of the album Umma Gumma, back in their very early experimental days. Perhaps it was a poor choice of title. What I meant by that was that you were cutting a pretty wide swath with your interpretation. Going from "advanced" to "elitist" is quite a jump, and not at all supported by what I wrote, or what was intended.

Your anger would be justified if I had been insulting or demeaning. I was not. I tried to very politely explain what I meant by "advanced", and that explanation is anyone who wants to do anything more than just glue some bits of plastic together.

You wrote "I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers". I don't know how my personal take on this forum causes you to be deliberately excluded. Its an opinion. You know what the expression is about opinions. God, if I were to want to quit every time someone on this forum had a different opinion than mine, I'd have lasted about 2 weeks.

I have no more right to be here than anyone else. I do not set policy or dictate behavior. I have a lot of friends here, and some who probably can't stand me. That's life. I try not to piss people off, but its inevitable, unless you just lurk and never post.

I'm not going to beg you to stay. You are an adult. If you let someone with a different opinion chase you away, that's your choice. If I were you, I'd stay. I wouldn't let anyone chase me away from something that I enjoy.

Please feel free to contact me off board, and we can work through this. I think its simply a case of miscommunication.

Happy Modelling! Roy
Visit my blog at:
http://barracudacals.blogspot.com
Last edited by roysutherl on April 21st, 2012, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 25th, 2007, 1:40 pm

April 21st, 2012, 10:09 pm #5

...why waste time here?" This is a fascinating statement posted by a very frequent contributor to Hyperscale. I will heed the advice provided but I choose to present one more post here. The same person called me "Eugene" (a cultural reference I assume, with which I'm sorry to say I'm unfamiliar) and told me I was "grinding an axe". This metaphor I understand. Language is such a powerful weapon for good or bullying and so easy to misuse, as a legal worker who frequents this site and is in the favour of the management, has so often and aptly demonstrated.
I can't claim that I've ever felt very welcome here though I've tried to make contributions when my limited time and research resources have allowed.

I have long fought what I've come to see as the pernicious and joy-stealing urge to always perfect the products of my hobby time. Once AMS got hold of me it took a very very long time to once again find the pleasure in simply building kits "out-of-the-box". That I was not enjoying trying to build the best kit possible because in the end the final result was inevitably disappointing, was what I take as a positive epiphany with which to return to the fun that I personally feel modelling should be for me. Please take careful note of the liberal and uncharacteristic use of the personal pronoun here. I am not telling you how you should approach modelling, I'm telling you that your opinion about how I should approach modelling is finally (after reading far too many show-piece magazines and reading far too many doctrinal postings here) totally irrelevant to me. Yes, essentially I just want to build!

With that in mind, and no longer willing to put up with the arrogance of a certain self-serving and intolerant poster with whom management appears to agree(not the poster providing the above and below advice who actually seems like a decent fellow), and for what it's worth (little to nothing to most of you no doubt) I take my leave and follow the advice presented so well which I quote:
"If I had no interest in making my models better and/or more accurate, I'd avoid this forum altogether." This statement does strike me as being exclusionist if not elitist. I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers. I shan't post again here and very much doubt I'll bother looking in to see any responses which might be generated as the usual assortment of, "Glad to see your back" and "Who gives a $%#* that you're not going to come here anymore", would just bore me. I do, however, imagine that any advertisers who might get the chance to read this before it's deleted by the clean-up crew would find it interesting.

To the poster of the quoted messages, thank you sincerely (no sarcasm intended) for the clarity of your advice.
.....don't want to improve our modeling skills somewhat with each build. Its the nature of any hobby, as in all aspects of life, to want to get better....to seek to be the best we can be with the time we have available. It just ain't human to do otherwise.

Peace,

Bails
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Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 10:02 am

April 21st, 2012, 10:14 pm #6

...why waste time here?" This is a fascinating statement posted by a very frequent contributor to Hyperscale. I will heed the advice provided but I choose to present one more post here. The same person called me "Eugene" (a cultural reference I assume, with which I'm sorry to say I'm unfamiliar) and told me I was "grinding an axe". This metaphor I understand. Language is such a powerful weapon for good or bullying and so easy to misuse, as a legal worker who frequents this site and is in the favour of the management, has so often and aptly demonstrated.
I can't claim that I've ever felt very welcome here though I've tried to make contributions when my limited time and research resources have allowed.

I have long fought what I've come to see as the pernicious and joy-stealing urge to always perfect the products of my hobby time. Once AMS got hold of me it took a very very long time to once again find the pleasure in simply building kits "out-of-the-box". That I was not enjoying trying to build the best kit possible because in the end the final result was inevitably disappointing, was what I take as a positive epiphany with which to return to the fun that I personally feel modelling should be for me. Please take careful note of the liberal and uncharacteristic use of the personal pronoun here. I am not telling you how you should approach modelling, I'm telling you that your opinion about how I should approach modelling is finally (after reading far too many show-piece magazines and reading far too many doctrinal postings here) totally irrelevant to me. Yes, essentially I just want to build!

With that in mind, and no longer willing to put up with the arrogance of a certain self-serving and intolerant poster with whom management appears to agree(not the poster providing the above and below advice who actually seems like a decent fellow), and for what it's worth (little to nothing to most of you no doubt) I take my leave and follow the advice presented so well which I quote:
"If I had no interest in making my models better and/or more accurate, I'd avoid this forum altogether." This statement does strike me as being exclusionist if not elitist. I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers. I shan't post again here and very much doubt I'll bother looking in to see any responses which might be generated as the usual assortment of, "Glad to see your back" and "Who gives a $%#* that you're not going to come here anymore", would just bore me. I do, however, imagine that any advertisers who might get the chance to read this before it's deleted by the clean-up crew would find it interesting.

To the poster of the quoted messages, thank you sincerely (no sarcasm intended) for the clarity of your advice.
All modellers must be of a certain level in order to qualify as being worthy to post in the presence of their peers, anyone who doesn't or thinks this is a hobby must be shown the door or given the impression in no uncertain terms that they'd be better of playing with diecasts or toys and leave the real modelling to others who aspire to the highest possible standards.

You should be grateful that these modelling gods are showing you the error of your ways. There is no room for individualism, you either conform to this Stalinist mindset and show no mercy to those who do not share your edicts or you're not a serious modeller.

Or join Zone Five where there's room for everyone.

http://www.zone-five.net/
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Joined: January 4th, 2007, 8:44 am

April 21st, 2012, 10:20 pm #7

Or are you taking it out of context?

No one, especially me, said anything even remotely like this. I'd like to see some clear examples of the Stalinist mindset you speak of. Seriously, I'm open to learning something new about this forum. As I said above, no one has any more right to be here, except maybe Brett.

Everyone here is allowed to have opinions, and most everyone does. Aside from the clearly stated rules below, no one is censored.



Happy Modelling! Roy
Visit my blog at:
http://barracudacals.blogspot.com
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Joined: January 4th, 2007, 8:44 am

April 21st, 2012, 10:23 pm #8

Hi Roy.

EDIT: I just read your follow up post, and now I'm really confused. You were kidding about the whole thing, or about leaving HS?


Wow, I am really blown away by your reaction to my post. I was clearly trying to be light hearted, signified by the smiley faces in the post. I even made a lighthearted reference to your first name, as we share the same one.

The title of my post was a obscure reference to an old Pink Floyd song off of the album Umma Gumma, back in their very early experimental days. Perhaps it was a poor choice of title. What I meant by that was that you were cutting a pretty wide swath with your interpretation. Going from "advanced" to "elitist" is quite a jump, and not at all supported by what I wrote, or what was intended.

Your anger would be justified if I had been insulting or demeaning. I was not. I tried to very politely explain what I meant by "advanced", and that explanation is anyone who wants to do anything more than just glue some bits of plastic together.

You wrote "I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers". I don't know how my personal take on this forum causes you to be deliberately excluded. Its an opinion. You know what the expression is about opinions. God, if I were to want to quit every time someone on this forum had a different opinion than mine, I'd have lasted about 2 weeks.

I have no more right to be here than anyone else. I do not set policy or dictate behavior. I have a lot of friends here, and some who probably can't stand me. That's life. I try not to piss people off, but its inevitable, unless you just lurk and never post.

I'm not going to beg you to stay. You are an adult. If you let someone with a different opinion chase you away, that's your choice. If I were you, I'd stay. I wouldn't let anyone chase me away from something that I enjoy.

Please feel free to contact me off board, and we can work through this. I think its simply a case of miscommunication.

Happy Modelling! Roy
Visit my blog at:
http://barracudacals.blogspot.com
Careful with that axe, Eugene! April 21 2012 at 2:47 AM
Roy Sutherland (Login roysutherl)
HyperScale Forums
from IP address 24.6.25.23


Response to "WE are here to discuss the more advanced aspects of the hobby"
How did we go from advanced to elitist? That's a pretty big conclusion for which to jump we must. (smiley face emoticon was here)

Roy (I love your name, BTW. Its short, yet regal.... some would almost say elitist! LOL), I think you are reading way too much into that simple statement.

If you have ever used an aftermarket sheet, or mixed paint to a specific color, or researched what shade the cockpit is, or made some minor correction based on when you've read here on the boards, or added even a simple aftermarket set, or weathered a model, or attempted panel shading, or even painted every bit of bare plastic, you are involved in the more advanced part of this hobby.

Let's face it. Hyperscale focuses on making models better than the way they come straight out of the box. When was the last time you saw a build where the builder left bare plastic, or didn't paint the canopy frames, or used some rattle can generic green to paint his model. We ARE advanced modelers, all of us. The degree varies widely, but I think its safe to say that we ALL strive to do something more with our builds, or we wouldn't be here.

The degree ranges from guys who build mostly out of the box, but researched and painted up to be accurate at the very least, all the way up to the master scratchbuilders who's work we love to marvel at.

One thing I don't recall ever seeing is a recurring elitist undertone. I've seen a lot of open sharing of techniques and spirited discussion of various topics, but the vast majority is friendly and driven by our collective passion for this hobby. Sure, once in a while, some modeler will make a pretty insensitive comment, but we are adults, and should have developed a thicker skin by now.

As to moving on to another forum; really? C'mon, be serious. No one is looking down their nose at anyone's work here. I also feel at odds with a lot of people who post here... its called being human!

There is little anyone can call me that will hurt my feelings, but elitist is one that will. I think anyone who knows me will tell you that is not what I am about. I have friends who are modelers of all skill levels. I respect their work and their approach to modelling.

Happy Modelling! Roy
Visit my blog at:
http://barracudacals.blogspot.com

Happy Modelling! Roy
Visit my blog at:
http://barracudacals.blogspot.com
Last edited by roysutherl on April 22nd, 2012, 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 10:02 am

April 21st, 2012, 10:25 pm #9

Or are you taking it out of context?

No one, especially me, said anything even remotely like this. I'd like to see some clear examples of the Stalinist mindset you speak of. Seriously, I'm open to learning something new about this forum. As I said above, no one has any more right to be here, except maybe Brett.

Everyone here is allowed to have opinions, and most everyone does. Aside from the clearly stated rules below, no one is censored.



Happy Modelling! Roy
Visit my blog at:
http://barracudacals.blogspot.com
"The expression of ones meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect."
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Joined: January 7th, 2010, 6:31 am

April 21st, 2012, 10:42 pm #10

...why waste time here?" This is a fascinating statement posted by a very frequent contributor to Hyperscale. I will heed the advice provided but I choose to present one more post here. The same person called me "Eugene" (a cultural reference I assume, with which I'm sorry to say I'm unfamiliar) and told me I was "grinding an axe". This metaphor I understand. Language is such a powerful weapon for good or bullying and so easy to misuse, as a legal worker who frequents this site and is in the favour of the management, has so often and aptly demonstrated.
I can't claim that I've ever felt very welcome here though I've tried to make contributions when my limited time and research resources have allowed.

I have long fought what I've come to see as the pernicious and joy-stealing urge to always perfect the products of my hobby time. Once AMS got hold of me it took a very very long time to once again find the pleasure in simply building kits "out-of-the-box". That I was not enjoying trying to build the best kit possible because in the end the final result was inevitably disappointing, was what I take as a positive epiphany with which to return to the fun that I personally feel modelling should be for me. Please take careful note of the liberal and uncharacteristic use of the personal pronoun here. I am not telling you how you should approach modelling, I'm telling you that your opinion about how I should approach modelling is finally (after reading far too many show-piece magazines and reading far too many doctrinal postings here) totally irrelevant to me. Yes, essentially I just want to build!

With that in mind, and no longer willing to put up with the arrogance of a certain self-serving and intolerant poster with whom management appears to agree(not the poster providing the above and below advice who actually seems like a decent fellow), and for what it's worth (little to nothing to most of you no doubt) I take my leave and follow the advice presented so well which I quote:
"If I had no interest in making my models better and/or more accurate, I'd avoid this forum altogether." This statement does strike me as being exclusionist if not elitist. I don't enjoy being deliberately excluded and clearly I was mistaken in my impression that HS was a site for all aviation modellers. I shan't post again here and very much doubt I'll bother looking in to see any responses which might be generated as the usual assortment of, "Glad to see your back" and "Who gives a $%#* that you're not going to come here anymore", would just bore me. I do, however, imagine that any advertisers who might get the chance to read this before it's deleted by the clean-up crew would find it interesting.

To the poster of the quoted messages, thank you sincerely (no sarcasm intended) for the clarity of your advice.
There is an apt analogy in the game of golf.

There are multitudes of golfers who are happy to play the game and never break 100.

There are those that have a terrible round if they don't break par.

Do you mean to say that they can't all sit around at the 19th and regale the shot that went in?
If duffer or scratch player gets a hole-in-one, does he not buy a round of beers for everyone?

The problem only arises when the duffer looks down on the scratch player as having taken all the fun out of the game, or the scratch player looks down on the duffer for not striving to improve.

No matter what club you join, you will find scratch players and duffers. If you didn't get along at the last club, chances are...well, you know.

I think I'll enjoy another beer.
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