Gotta wonder about Zukei-Mura logic...???

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Gotta wonder about Zukei-Mura logic...???

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 6:32 pm

July 1st, 2012, 10:31 pm #1

Re: the cost required to the manufacturer to produce the P-51 / A-1H / He-219, etc in large scale with all of that interior detail that no one will ever see unless you build the kit as a "production-line" or "major-overhaul" diorama with all of the skin off. Because those costs are certainly passed on to the model builder and I, for one, will not pay major shekels for bits that I will never use because they will never be seen, even in the course of a "routine-maintenance" build (a few hatches off here and there) which I never do.

Never built an open-canopy model in my life. I like them streamlined. The main reason I build AC is aesthetics which includes airframe, colors, markings. With all of the skin off all of that is lost. With all of the skin on you see little to nothing of the structural bits. I'd rather spend my money on kits that are outstandingly well engineered ie. fit of the parts and the finesse of the visible detail. Tamiya's recent 32nd offerings come to mind. Outstanding visible detail, engineering (fit) and the extra bits are pretty much limited to cockpit, landing gear and engine, which one would most likely see in a routine build...

Cheers, Steve



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Joined: March 19th, 2007, 9:06 am

July 1st, 2012, 10:54 pm #2

Well, maybe they are not catering to you? There are lots of people who love to open up everything on their models, seems to be more common in Europe and the Far East compared to N.America.
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Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 8:53 am

July 1st, 2012, 11:16 pm #3

Re: the cost required to the manufacturer to produce the P-51 / A-1H / He-219, etc in large scale with all of that interior detail that no one will ever see unless you build the kit as a "production-line" or "major-overhaul" diorama with all of the skin off. Because those costs are certainly passed on to the model builder and I, for one, will not pay major shekels for bits that I will never use because they will never be seen, even in the course of a "routine-maintenance" build (a few hatches off here and there) which I never do.

Never built an open-canopy model in my life. I like them streamlined. The main reason I build AC is aesthetics which includes airframe, colors, markings. With all of the skin off all of that is lost. With all of the skin on you see little to nothing of the structural bits. I'd rather spend my money on kits that are outstandingly well engineered ie. fit of the parts and the finesse of the visible detail. Tamiya's recent 32nd offerings come to mind. Outstanding visible detail, engineering (fit) and the extra bits are pretty much limited to cockpit, landing gear and engine, which one would most likely see in a routine build...

Cheers, Steve



than the Z-M P-51!

The MSRP of the Tamiya P-51D is $168.00 while the MSRP of the Z-M kit is $95.00

The MSRP of the Z-M Skyraider is $141.00 while Tamiya's MSRP for their 1/32 range of aircraft vary from $140.00 to $203.00

Guess what? None of the Tamiya kits include all of the interior 'bells and whistles' that the Z-M kits include.

So, can you please explain how the extra internal parts of the Z-M kits are costing us modelers more?

Oh, and in case you've missed them, the average retail prices of most 1/32 kits are in the same price range as the above.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! - Eleanor Roosevelt
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Joined: July 30th, 2010, 2:19 pm

July 1st, 2012, 11:16 pm #4

Re: the cost required to the manufacturer to produce the P-51 / A-1H / He-219, etc in large scale with all of that interior detail that no one will ever see unless you build the kit as a "production-line" or "major-overhaul" diorama with all of the skin off. Because those costs are certainly passed on to the model builder and I, for one, will not pay major shekels for bits that I will never use because they will never be seen, even in the course of a "routine-maintenance" build (a few hatches off here and there) which I never do.

Never built an open-canopy model in my life. I like them streamlined. The main reason I build AC is aesthetics which includes airframe, colors, markings. With all of the skin off all of that is lost. With all of the skin on you see little to nothing of the structural bits. I'd rather spend my money on kits that are outstandingly well engineered ie. fit of the parts and the finesse of the visible detail. Tamiya's recent 32nd offerings come to mind. Outstanding visible detail, engineering (fit) and the extra bits are pretty much limited to cockpit, landing gear and engine, which one would most likely see in a routine build...

Cheers, Steve



In my opinion Zoukei Mura is not wrong producing heavily detailed kits.They are wrong because they produce those details without accuracy and finesse one would expect for asking price, and in my opinion country of origin. Interior-oversimplified parts, overscaled parts, exterior-shallow panel lines and lack of detail etc..
They ask premium prices,but do not offer premium quality, until that does not change I will keep my Shinden and Ta-152, and will be looking foreward to Revell He 219 amd Trumpeter Spad.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 6:32 pm

July 1st, 2012, 11:18 pm #5

Well, maybe they are not catering to you? There are lots of people who love to open up everything on their models, seems to be more common in Europe and the Far East compared to N.America.
Obviously they are not catering to me alone and, frankly, it was a stupid statment to make. But, in my 50 years of building models, I don't recall seeing too many models opened up as far as would be necessary to accurately display all the ZM interior bits.

Perhaps in Europe and Asia, as you say, they are more in to that. But every modeler I know, on five continents, prefers finesse / quality to quantity. Stop trying to pick fights where none is intended. Way too many people on this forum so indulge...

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Joined: July 30th, 2010, 2:19 pm

July 1st, 2012, 11:18 pm #6

Re: the cost required to the manufacturer to produce the P-51 / A-1H / He-219, etc in large scale with all of that interior detail that no one will ever see unless you build the kit as a "production-line" or "major-overhaul" diorama with all of the skin off. Because those costs are certainly passed on to the model builder and I, for one, will not pay major shekels for bits that I will never use because they will never be seen, even in the course of a "routine-maintenance" build (a few hatches off here and there) which I never do.

Never built an open-canopy model in my life. I like them streamlined. The main reason I build AC is aesthetics which includes airframe, colors, markings. With all of the skin off all of that is lost. With all of the skin on you see little to nothing of the structural bits. I'd rather spend my money on kits that are outstandingly well engineered ie. fit of the parts and the finesse of the visible detail. Tamiya's recent 32nd offerings come to mind. Outstanding visible detail, engineering (fit) and the extra bits are pretty much limited to cockpit, landing gear and engine, which one would most likely see in a routine build...

Cheers, Steve



In my opinion Zoukei Mura is not wrong producing heavily detailed kits.They are wrong because they produce those details without accuracy and finesse one would expect for asking price, and in my opinion country of origin. Interior-oversimplified parts, overscaled parts, exterior-shallow panel lines and lack of detail etc..
They ask premium prices,but do not offer premium quality, until that does not change I will keep my Shinden and Ta-152, and will be looking foreward to Revell He 219 amd Trumpeter Spad.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 6:32 pm

July 1st, 2012, 11:28 pm #7

than the Z-M P-51!

The MSRP of the Tamiya P-51D is $168.00 while the MSRP of the Z-M kit is $95.00

The MSRP of the Z-M Skyraider is $141.00 while Tamiya's MSRP for their 1/32 range of aircraft vary from $140.00 to $203.00

Guess what? None of the Tamiya kits include all of the interior 'bells and whistles' that the Z-M kits include.

So, can you please explain how the extra internal parts of the Z-M kits are costing us modelers more?

Oh, and in case you've missed them, the average retail prices of most 1/32 kits are in the same price range as the above.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! - Eleanor Roosevelt
I would be far more willing to pay more for visible excellence than invisible contents that are less well engineered. All other 32nd scale P-51s are cheaper than Tamiya's but quality is always my first consideration, price my last. A rational person would not make the claim that ZM's production costs are not passed on to the consumer. I said nothing about ZM's MSRP vice Tamiya's. My point was ZM's MSRP relative to the interior bits which most people will never see or build in to a display. Stop trying to pick fights and pay attention to what is actually being said...

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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 6:32 pm

July 1st, 2012, 11:31 pm #8

In my opinion Zoukei Mura is not wrong producing heavily detailed kits.They are wrong because they produce those details without accuracy and finesse one would expect for asking price, and in my opinion country of origin. Interior-oversimplified parts, overscaled parts, exterior-shallow panel lines and lack of detail etc..
They ask premium prices,but do not offer premium quality, until that does not change I will keep my Shinden and Ta-152, and will be looking foreward to Revell He 219 amd Trumpeter Spad.
I was looking for an answer to the question which some folks obviously missed in their apparent need to fire one across somebody else's bow.

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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 6:29 am

July 1st, 2012, 11:41 pm #9

I would be far more willing to pay more for visible excellence than invisible contents that are less well engineered. All other 32nd scale P-51s are cheaper than Tamiya's but quality is always my first consideration, price my last. A rational person would not make the claim that ZM's production costs are not passed on to the consumer. I said nothing about ZM's MSRP vice Tamiya's. My point was ZM's MSRP relative to the interior bits which most people will never see or build in to a display. Stop trying to pick fights and pay attention to what is actually being said...

I agree with the sentiment. Personally, I wouldn't build a skeleton of a kit either and have said so in posts before today - I almost wish they'd release weekend editions minus the skeleton inside.

However it's hard to avoid the conflict with when you lead with a generalisation unsubstantiated by any real evidence.

You only need to look at the amazing range of kits on websites like HLJ that would probably never sell to any thing other than their domestic market to realise you don't need to target all modellers when developing a kit.

Who knows, maybe Z-M were pitching to their domestic market first and foremost. Does anyone have any evidence their releases haven't been profitable for the company?

I know a few people who have bought the Shinden, Ta 152 or Skyraider... I suspect these kits appeal to more people than you might think.

After seeing the Air Modeller build of the Skyraider, it's clear that kit can be built into an absolutely stunning model. Similar thing with the Shinden and Ta-152, both of which I have seen built.

To my mind the Mustang only looks like a questionable choice only because Tamiya's kit is amazing. If that kit hadn't been released I'm sure people would have been clamouring for the Mustang.

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Last edited by nzdavidh on July 2nd, 2012, 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 25th, 2012, 1:39 am

July 1st, 2012, 11:46 pm #10

Re: the cost required to the manufacturer to produce the P-51 / A-1H / He-219, etc in large scale with all of that interior detail that no one will ever see unless you build the kit as a "production-line" or "major-overhaul" diorama with all of the skin off. Because those costs are certainly passed on to the model builder and I, for one, will not pay major shekels for bits that I will never use because they will never be seen, even in the course of a "routine-maintenance" build (a few hatches off here and there) which I never do.

Never built an open-canopy model in my life. I like them streamlined. The main reason I build AC is aesthetics which includes airframe, colors, markings. With all of the skin off all of that is lost. With all of the skin on you see little to nothing of the structural bits. I'd rather spend my money on kits that are outstandingly well engineered ie. fit of the parts and the finesse of the visible detail. Tamiya's recent 32nd offerings come to mind. Outstanding visible detail, engineering (fit) and the extra bits are pretty much limited to cockpit, landing gear and engine, which one would most likely see in a routine build...

Cheers, Steve



as I compare my two kits side by side. I also compared the A-1 to Trumpeter's A-4E, and the surface detail is as good or better. It's also as fine as Tamiya's F-4, which I consider to be their first "contemporary" 1/32 effort. Not bad for ZM's third-ever release, especially considering how long it took Trumpeter to get there. And Trumpeter seems quite successful, even with their invisible internal details, not to mention their all-too-frequent shape, accuracy and fit problems.

I expect people will realize just how well ZM is doing once Trumpeter releases their Spad series...

Last edited by Ferdico on July 1st, 2012, 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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